Plus I don't understand why the RS3 was ever released as a 5 door hatch/sportback thing, just doesn't make sense.
saying the M135i isn't an M car is wrong. A BMW with an M badge also has uprated sports suspension, bigger wheels and brakes! it's a package, not just a badge - like an S-Line or S3 has more than just a badge over an A3 Sport. it may not be the 1M, but it has the M sport upgrades.
maybe he doesn't know how to get the best out of a quattro and that's why he doesn't like it. But if you're supposed to be some S*** hot professional tester, you'd better learn to drive the cars you're going to test or risk having your efforts branded biased, unreliable or useless.
the point is: can you believe the reviewer, or are his views skewed in favour of his personal preference?
There are other reviews that say BMW make better drivers cars than Audi ..& I believe them! But this reviewer is glaringly one sided and many are taking this review as definitive. I watched one review of a pro race driver explain the differences between a BMW and Audi: He summed up by saying that if you wanted your drive to be an exciting & emotional experience you should choose a BMW, But if you simply wanted to win or get where you're going fastest and weren't bothered about emotions, you should choose an Audi Quattro ..and most would concur with that view! but that's not the impression given by the above linked review and leaves me to conclude that the guys either biased, can't drive Audi's the way they can be driven or both. Understeer hasn't been a major issue for others that know how to overcome it! but for this guy ..well it almost reduced him to tears.
I see you conveniently carved up my post to avoid commenting on the parts you couldn't refute.He commended the RS3 where due; excellent engine and drivetrain, looks good, but he didn't like the understeer!!!! Every other review of the RS3 concurs with this. Why is it biased??
The M135i isn't a proper "M" car; like you say it is the equivalent of an S-Line or maybe S3. AUDI RS models = BMW M Models. The M135i is a halfway house to the top end model and normally would be call M Sport like in old BMW branding of 3-series...but they're not an M3.
Comparing a top A3 model [RS3] with the mid sport model of the 1-series [M135i] there are different levels of expectations, so when the RS3 loses out to a lower equivalent 1-series it's hard to ignore.
Don't forget the RS4 was well-loved, just accept the RS3 isn't the car is should be as a "driver's" car.
...
I say the review is biased not because I'm an Audi fanboy, but because it's blatantly obvious he sets out from the start to rubbish the RS3, He doesn't like the seating position, he doesn't like the interior - which I feel is a much nicer place to be than BMW's interior, he doesn't like the steering. When he's on the track test he complains of "tragic" understeer, then sets out to prove it by sawing at the steering through high speed bends as if he's trying to show it's unstable - but understeer doesn't cause instability on a track, bad driving does! and it's plain to see that he's driving it badly ...whether that's deliberate or not, it's still being driven badly. He claims the RS3 only pulls away from the 1 up to 30mph, but the stats at the end say different. He also exaggerates the BMW's good points on numerous occasions & harps on about the RS3's imagined bad points continuously. He says the best mpg he could manage to from the RS3 in everyday driving, i.e: around town, is something like 21 (or whatever)! Then he sneaks in the long range, i.e: motorway, mpg of the 135. How is that not biased?
maybe he doesn't know how to get the best out of a quattro and that's why he doesn't like it. But if you're supposed to be some S*** hot professional tester, you'd better learn to drive the cars you're going to test or risk having your efforts branded biased, unreliable or useless.
...but he doesn't care about that!!! ..which is what he said every time the RS3 proved better at something than the 1.That's what he said in the reviews; it's one of the fastest point to point cars in any weather...
I suppose there was the hark back to Audi's being Avants, but also:
Would a family man with kids buy a 3 door hatch - PROBABLY NOT
Would a young/single/no kids in tow man buy a 5 door car with an RS badge on it - PROBABLY WOULD
Do sportbacks outsell 3 doors these days - PROBABLY
One production line, lower costs, maximum profit - Audi quids in - JOB DONE!
I see you conveniently carved up my post to avoid commenting on the parts you couldn't refute.
...have another bite.
...but he doesn't care about that!!! ..which is what he said every time the RS3 proved better at something than the 1.
Biased!
The fact the BMW is better in some areas than the AUDI didn't help.
I didn't carve any..[SNIP]
Did I read somewhere that you drive a 1 series?
AUDI's are famous for being dull cars to drive
Just want to say that an A3 "Sport" isn't close to being sporty! an s-line is the least requirement for anything like a sporty drive.The RS3 is not an R8 though and we all know how good the R8 is and it's not your average AUDI - and the motoring journalists have said so too, but I don't really see any relevance in talking about an R8 V10. A good car to drive can still be involving and safe/grippy.
It's not just the haldex/quattro a3 I was referring too, just AUDIs in general. For example my A3 "Sport" is not sporty at all lol. It's too woolly, too soft, doesn't respond to steering or throttle inputs, but it has good road holding and reasonable grip so it's safe to drive but then so do most cars these days. But they are better in general these days. I was impressed with the A5 Sportback S-Line I drove earlier this year, it cornered really flat and the steering was much nicer than the A3 (more weighted), it wasn't what you'd call a driver's car, but it wasn't a wallowly old boat like say an old S4.
Just want to say that an A3 "Sport" isn't close to being sporty! an s-line is the least requirement for anything like a sporty drive.
did anybody see this video from the other similar thread? I think it makes the point as clear as day.
(vid deleted)
see how easy that happened?
edit: that's a 1M coupe BTW.
Find me a vid of a well maintained RS3 doing the same as the 1M, in the same conditions as my link and I'll agree with you, until then ...the point has obviously gone over your head.
Considering the conditions, the 1M let go because to wag its tail is in its nature - it may well be a demon on a track, but in normal, everyday conditions they're virtually un-driveable. Harris isn't a reviewer, he's a BMW salesman! ..and he has many people hood-winked with his glossing over of the short-comings of high powered, short wheel-base, RWD track cars like these.
and my video is the perfect example of how easy they let go when "commuting" in city traffic.
I haven't assumed as much as you have.My point has obviously also gone over your head.
You posted 1 video of a 1M losing it's tail in the wet and then assumed that it is well maintained and concluded that "in everyday conditions they're virtually un-driveable". But you know nothing of:
1. The state of the driver. Was it his car, was it stolen, was he drunk, was he high, was he supremely incompetent, was he a test-pilot....
2. The state of the road. Was there something other than rain on there; fuel for example...
3. The state of the car. What tyres were on it, how many miles had they done, what suspension was on it...
My point was that single videos, in isolation, with no background knowledge, prove nothing other than that someone in Japan crashed a BMW 1M.
I honestly can't decide if some people deliberately aim to wind other people up with their views on this so-called review, because it's so obviously biased you'd have to be blind not to see it for what it is ...It's a BMW Sales video! Not blaming Harris though - everybody's got to earn a living somehow, it's those that can't see through the scam that get my goat.As you were gents; it's all good sport back on topic pls ;-)
watch the video again & define "Bad Weather"I think describing a well sorted RWD car with 320bhp as "undriveable" because it requires a little more respect in the wet and one crashed in a video is a best naive as most supercars have much more power and RWD. Nobody's doubting that a 4wd car (eg RS3) in bad weather is easier to drive fast for your "average" driver, average being the key word as driving a RWD car does require more from the driver, hence can be more rewarding and involving to drive.
I know the Sport model isn't "really" sporty but the S-Line merely has stiffer springs connected to the same woolly chassis. It's like lowering an old Nova, it does not make it a 205GTi. The S-Line drives better for sure but it maintains the same level of lifeless steering and lack of response to throttle inputs. If the RS3 responded in anything remotely the same way you would be severely disappointed with your choice of £45k spend.
watch the video again & define "Bad Weather"
I haven't assumed as much as you have.
The link in the other thread I spoke of, takes you to a Hong Kong forum where a lot of your points re the driver, conditions, car, etc are tackled. The driver has been identified as "capable".
Edit: sorry ..not "capable", "experienced" see for yourself .. That's why Quattro rules in rainy days... - VORSICHT Hong Kong
lol! that video is shot in Hong Kong, not England! it's in a City, not a country lane prone to greasy or leafy conditions, the roads are clean, not dirty and if you had a clue about cars or driving:I really don't know what your getting at but like a dog with a bone I don't think you're going to give up on this.
If you know anything about road conditions you will recognise that the damp conditions in that video can be some of the most slippery you will experience when driving. If you've ever driven on a track it's at it's most slippery in conditions like that NOT when it's lashing down with rain. We could also add elements such as a long hot dry period before rain making the roads extremely greasy, but that is just guessing.
Leave the big powered scary RWD cars to the big boys!
see my edit above.
lol! that video is shot in Hong Kong, not England! it's in a City, not a country lane prone to greasy or leafy conditions, the roads are clean, not dirty and if you had a clue about cars or driving:
a. you wouldn't think the review was an honest & unbiased assessment of two cars.
b. you wouldn't think all A3\S3's handle like your Sport.
Artimus said:There's nothing wrong with the A3 chassis - it's stiff enough to handle more power than the Standard RS3 has, it just needs driving in a different manner to a RWD car to get the best out of it - which is exactly the point Warren was trying to make regarding the R8, which you earlier dismissed as irrelevant.
Artimus said:Ohh ..and lowering a standard 205 DOES make it a 205GTi. so your definition is completely void
all in the name of Banter!I'll try to avoid the sort of personal remarks being chucked around here but:
1. Putting a road in a city does not make it clean. Lorries and cars drive on roads, they spew stuff all over them - not leaves, but oil, unburnt fuel etc..
2. I assume you weren't on that section of road in Hong Kong when the video was taken, and so aren't really qualified to comment on whether the road was 'clean' or not.
3. I assume you've never lived with a BMW M135i and an Audi RS3 - without having done so, are you qualified to give an honest and unbiased assessment of Chris Harris' review?
FYI - Warren has also stated that his biggest concern with the RS3 is that it's based on a 10 year old A3 platform, never designed to cope with the power of a standard RS3.
I'll admit that I'm no expert, but I thought the GTi had a different engine (well, a choice of 2) and different brakes also. And I'd be surprised if that was the total extent of the under-the-covers differences.