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Intercooler Options

S3AMJ Aug 4, 2018

  1. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Right before you all start shouting at me and throwing links to the stickies haha! And yes I did hesitate to post this thread up, but....

    General consensus for not being able to keep fog lights using the “Wellycooler” is it because of the large 76mm inlet and outlets, so the 90 degree elbows stick out? If you were able to source an intercooler with the same core but with 63mm inlet and outlets, will this solve that issue I wonder?

    Now, yes I could just buy a AH fab v2 or the Wagner or Airtec even. But the Wagner is.... ummm well too thin in my optinion and expensive, Airtec is a good compromise however the new ones are supplied with silicone hoses as apposed to hardpipes. The AH Fab V2 is mega bucks now sadly. The Wellycooler been proven time and time again for being the best with its volume, surface area and core thickness that and it’s dirt cheap.

    So what do you guys think? Can the Wellycooler be fitted without manipulating it, i.e. welding, turning it upside down, etc and retain the fogs with 63mm inlet and outlets instead of the 76mm’s?
     
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  3. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User Bronze Supporter Audi S3

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    What’s wrong with the airtech silicone hoses?
    Cant you fit the wellycooler
    Upside down so it will miss the fog lights sure I’ve seen that done on here
     
  4. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    depends if you just want to retain functionality or OE looks... no fitment I have seen manage to make it OE looking (no pipes hanging out etc) without welding...

    A couple have managed to minimise the amount of visible pipework but the Airtech seems to be a decent compromise but depends on power level...

    Hybrid power is about its limit from what I have seen...

    <tuffty/>
     
  5. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Hi TJ,

    I just thought its generally better to have hard pipes I think especially when its least accessible incase of leaks, etc. If you put it upside down I'm almost certain you have to change the end tanks, i.e. cut and weld.
     
  6. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User Bronze Supporter Audi S3

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    It is instead of having loads of joints but with the air tech hoses there’s no joints just the connection points
     
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  7. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Evening Tuffty,

    I want to retain functionality ideally, you know that one day you need fogs and won't have them sort of situations, that and I want to keep things as OEM as possible. My power levels will be hybrid at this stage.... but I suppose I'm thinking future proofing in the event I want more power!
     
  8. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Ah no sorry I didn't explain myself properly, I'd be looking at having a complete hard pipe set up, so the only joints would be the connection on the end tank and the charge pipe, same on the other side, end tank to a 63mm map sensor pipe.
     
  9. mark_S3

    mark_S3 Team Silver

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    Airtec...

    Just saying.... Lol[​IMG]

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  10. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Haha you've done it now Mark, how will I ever look at the Airtec intercooler the same again!
     
  11. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    This was the idea behind the complete hard pipe set up, granted this intercooler they supply is a little small. I think its volume is around 8.3L not that I can translate any of it but I'm under the impression you don't have to cut the crash bar, as it sits underneath it because its small, and it retains the fog lights!
    [​IMG]
    But anyway, getting side tracked. its a shame theres no easy way around the Wellycooler fog light situation. I know Bill now looking at recently uploaded pictures has re-welded the ends and fitted them upside down to combat this with great success. I certainly don't want to have a crack at this, only welding I've done is with a 50 year old oil filled ARC welder and damp rods on 10mm steel haha.
     
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  13. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    There is solutions in the FMIC thread. I did it and others have also
     
  14. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Thanks Karl, Ive read the whole thread the other night. As above I was seeing if there was a way around it without manipulating the intercooler. seems theres always something to trim, cut, weld. Just thought maybe on the off chance some new developments/conclusions have come in since then.
     
  15. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Ahhh I see, sorry I skipped that.
    Unfortunately not
     
  16. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    No worries mate, I’ll keep scratching my head some more


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  17. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Right.... so don’t all laugh at me at once! But hear me out!

    Intercooler below is 600x300x100 with 63mm inlet/outlet priced at £120.

    If you look at these end tanks, raises some interesting questions, putting on a 63mm silicone 90 degree and I think it’ll roughly go where it’ll pick up the 90 degree hard pipe to the charge pipe? Now I know the Wellycooler is shoehorned in there as it is, but I believe Mark above in the thread managed to squeeze in a 600x300x100 intercooler! Also I think it'll clear the fog lights not only that your getting a whopping 18L volume.
    [​IMG]

    Tell me what you think


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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  18. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    there is a forge intercooler for the TT which has the end tanks in the middle on the sides but I dont think that is 63mm inlet / outlet.

    is your one above really 100mm deep? that's really big?
     
  19. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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  20. mark_S3

    mark_S3 Team Silver

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    That's my set up.

    Toyosport Cooler (600x300x100)
    Had the 76mm exits cut off and new 63mm exits custom fabricated.

    For intercooler, pipework and JCS Hi-grip clamps (fabrication done at mates rates)
    Cost half the price of Airtec Cooler.

    Managed to retain grilles and fog lights (fogs not fitted as I don't like them and looks more aggressive). [​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk
     
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  21. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    regular 64mm welly cooler and tight enough to allow the TT head lamp washer "aliens" to stay, a similar setup allowed my S3 fogs to co-exist with a trim on the lower grills. and bumper (no bumper trimming needed on TT) - obviously the photo was taken before the clamps :)

    lol and I suppose the photos I still wished I had an airtec (simple connector at intercooler and charge pipe and hard map pipe. this has so many potential leaks -- but hey ho -- I will drive boost free tomorrow. as my wife needs our other car.

    added spacers to the TT too so looks f'ing cool.

    20180805_124910.jpg 20180805_124859.jpg 20180805_124847.jpg


    and some moody spacers :D - that doesn't make me a chav... alrite boss!

    20180805_171418.jpg


    20180805_171406.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  22. S3 Hilife

    S3 Hilife It's an addiction Team Dolphin Grey VCDS Map User Gold Supporter Audi S3 quattro

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    Mark how did you manage to squeeze 100mm core behind the bumper and manage to keep your AC condenser? I didn’t realise this was possible

    Steve
     
  23. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Good effort Stu, looks good to me. It might be that I’ll have to result to getting the Airtec, but I’m going to exhaust all my options before I do.


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  24. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    This is a very good question! I’ve seen some cut crash bars with the 76mm deep intercooler and it doesn’t look like that’s much more room....


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  25. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    with a 64mm welly cooler you need to cut the S3 crash bar and bumper and grills, I think with 76mm some people actually remove the air-conditioning completely or bump it back lord knows how to fit 100mm behind there?

    if you could but just the airtec fitted silicon pipes they would make a fortune as people would add them to the £80 welly coolers. where-as an airtec is essentially a guaranteed decent welly cooler and the silicon pipework. I bet you still need to remove brackets and relocate wiring etc. as even the standard Audi cable clamp's gets in the way pushing the pipes out by 1mm. on the TT you need to bring the passenger side in differently to the driver's side it looks wonky but that is required.

    I have only tested this on the drive but f-knows whether all ten of the clamps are properly tight - I'll take tools with me :D :D
     
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  26. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User Bronze Supporter Audi S3

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    [QUOTE="Stuart B, post: 3296355, member: 107164]
    I'll take tools with me :D :D[/QUOTE]

    Still an s3 owner at heart
     
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  27. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    I might put together an S3 Owners toolkit.... all the essentials for roadside repairs! Haha. Or a lump hammer depending on the mood


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  28. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I loved my S3, but I spent longer looking at it than driving it. the TT is no better technically, just a better starting point in my case (Sat Nav, with SD etc, stock map etc). I am pretty sure there are plenty of TT's in the same state as some S3's (mine will be by the end of it) but they are only £1800 if it goes wrong rather than 3K for potentially a 6 year project. was reading "goubo stroker build nears end" recent posts in his thread which was started by Bill over 3 years ago.. is it at an end yet? or still nearing the end? that is a car to be reckoned with I am not invested enough to do that - I see a coolant leak and go hmmm.. lets see what happens in a few days.

    a project is a project, I only picked a TT because I had some compatible parts otherwise I would have just got a 320 BMW and never touched it. saying that I still have spent about 1K on the TT since ownership, I hate my 2005 Mazda 3 (apart from the excellent HID head lights) and it just passed it's 3rd MOT in my ownership - I have only actually serviced it once (plugs and filter) and changed the front brake discs to get rid of a vibration 6 months ago (I didn't even bother with new pads) I just top it up with oil every couple of weeks or before a long journey. (it's **** but just keeps on going)
     
  29. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    I don't believe any car built to the level of Goubo's or mine for that matter are ever finished... you just get periods of time when you get to enjoy the fruits of your investment... followed by naughty corner moments...

    Mines still evolving over 4 years on from the most recent build... its not been without issue like most things but there is always something to do mainly due to the way I have gone about the build...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  30. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    It makes no difference how you went about your build Tuffty, even if the first modification you made was 600 you would still continue with maintenance, tweaks, improvements - it's the nature of the hobby / addiction. There's nothing wrong with it, at whatever level or route people want to take. I have loved these 3 years so far learning new stuff, mucking around etc. And I'm pretty rubbish at it :D

    When the fun stops - stop!!
    #AudiS3ModAware.com
     
  31. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Active Member

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    Airtec cooler is good, consistent and low AIT on mine and others I’ve heard of, supposedly good for 500bhp which I can believe as I had 420 and the same core is used on other manufacturers with big power. It’s not a simple plug and play like they make out though. I think everyone I know who has had one on an s3 has had an issue with the right bumper grill not fitting properly.

    Wagner is expensive but very good cooler from what I’ve heard with easy fitting. Can’t go wrong really with wellycooler but is more work. AH fabs v2 have good reviews I believe.
     
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  32. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Thanks for your input Jon, it does look like I’m heading towards the Airtec route, unless I give it to Bill to work his magic. still wouldn’t mind putting in the biggest intercooler I can fit.... for future proof, but with that said, will I want for than 500bhp. That’s the big question, in which case I’d be spending the same money again on top of then hybrid build so I suppose cross that bridge if and when I get there I suppose.


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  34. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    If we can confirm we can definitely fit a 100mm deep intercooler 100% and I get confirmation from the seller of that huge intercooler I posted a picture of above with the angled 63mm inlet and outlet end tanks are correct to the picture and description, I might buy it and have a crack see if it can be done!
     
  35. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Active Member

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    Although size is a good indicator (insert penis joke), sometimes a smaller intercooler is more efficient than a larger one. I think forge ones are about the size of say an airtec and they’re poo. The Wagner one isn’t particularly thick from memory (fits better) but is very efficient. Also I’m pretty sure 3” pipework is laggier than 2.5” and probably unnecessary but someone like Tuffty will be a better person to ask on that. 2.5” is hard enough to fit in the bumper never mind 3”.
     
  36. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    I agree with what your saying mate. I think rule of thumb is 63mm (2.5”) piping and the shorter the route the better to reduce lag. If the intercooler was bigger I assume it’s better? Im basing this on the air volume inside the intercooler is there for longer making it cooler. And a thicker core is better for heat transfer/exchange. But I could be talking complete rubbish, this is just what I’ve researched from various forums.


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  37. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk Team Ming Blue Audi S3

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    I have a airtec fitted and there was cutting of the crash bar and trimming of the bumper and the fog light surrounds. I also lost one of the brackets for the fog lights but there still secure enough and the main benefit I want it for is you keep the fog lights.
     
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  38. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Active Member

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    A poorly designed larger intercooler will suffer more pressure drop/flow loss than a smaller more efficient one. Im no fluid dynamics expert but I wouldn’t buy an intercooler soley based on its size. If 500 is your goal I’d go with whatever cooler people have made this with on a 20v, not sure what Bill fits on his builds but I know Wagner’s have done 500+ without issue.
     
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  39. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I just don't see how something 100mm will fit, where so much effort is involved to fit something 64mm.

    Bill and someone here have posted some posh pictures of upside down welly-coolers fitted
     
  40. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Yeah seen the pictures of the Wellycooler Bill does and it’s really impressive, very tidy and clearly works very well. This is my number 1 option to be honest followed by the Airtec at number 2. But if I can do it to save time, money that and I like getting hands on with my car, all part of the experience and self learning. Done all the work on my previous projects be it slightly different as they were Jap cars and had lots more room to play around with in and around the engine bays


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  41. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    I had no aircon rad and a 76mm wellycooler and I simply have no idea how a 100mm would fit
     
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  42. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    was the 100mm a typo? toyo dont make that size?
     
  43. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+ Team Brilliant Black Audi S3

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    Karls referring to Mark managing to fit a 600x300x100 intercooler which he must of got from eBay. I was wondering how he managed it, and kept the aircon condenser, fog lights, etc. I found an intercooler posted above which looks as though it would be a good fit! Comes with 45 degree angled inlet and outlet end tanks.


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