Imola Yellow Audi S3 - APR - TTE420 - Audi Tuner Featured April '16

[RS03UGO]

I am running a 165 bar fpv with stock s3 injectors and made 426hp with my TTE420 setup. All setup by Stan @ Ecotune!
You will be over the moon once it's all setup. Keep me posted

 

[paul_zx6r]

Great videos of the track days, What do you think to the pipe werx downpipe? I was looking at that plus their 200 cel sports cat? Did you have any fitment problems mating it to the standard cat back section?

 

[mechanic69]

Sounds awesome great job

 

[Dan-Jnr]

Great videos of the track days, What do you think to the pipe werx downpipe? I was looking at that plus their 200 cel sports cat? Did you have any fitment problems mating it to the standard cat back section?

If you purchase it directly from Pipewerx they will fit it for you. If not it connects to stock cat back, or Milltek cat back without issues. Had it on both. I went with decat, and felt the difference immediately after fitting.

 

[paul_zx6r]

If you purchase it directly from Pipewerx they will fit it for you. If not it connects to stock cat back, or Milltek cat back without issues. Had it on both. I went with decat, and felt the difference immediately after fitting.

Thanks, I've ordered the down pipe with sport cat from them, I phoned them just to make sure it would fit the standard cat back part, just got to get it fitted now

 

[swatchuk]

How did you mount your camera at Oulton Park? When I last went they were really funny in the safety briefing about filming and how the cameras were mounted.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

How did you mount your camera at Oulton Park? When I last went they were really funny in the safety briefing about filming and how the cameras were mounted.

Head rest mount there is picture of it fitted in this blog further back. Easy to make yourself. Some of the video was recorded with the camera stuck to my passengers helmet.

Oulton Park have relaxed the rules a bit regarding cameras now, like suction mount allowed with tether.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

TTE420 was installed yesterday, along with CTS turbo outlet pipe and throttle pipe earlier in the month.
Took it to do some VCDS logs to check the Revo 2+ settings were OK run with the hybrid turbo which were B8 T5 F6.
After two runs the turbo outlet pipe blew off, so limped home and replaced the weak looking jubilee clip with a much stronger one, all on my drive way in the dark. Went back out to to do some more runs and eventually settled with B9 T6 F6.
The car pulls like an absolute solid freight train from 3.5k to 7.3k rpm.

Previous MAF readings were 261 g/s on the stock K04 turbo, and pulled 300 g/s on the new TTE420 turbo. I have a Revo intake so MAF scaling is not true.
Going to get it on the dyno Thursday 3rd December, the same dyno I got 330bhp with my last Revo 2+ run so hoping to get 380-400bhp on them.

Already got the extra hardware to go Revo 3, but going to wait until the new year before I upgrade the software.

 

[Dt_racing]

Happy days, solid work mate really happy for you. Just awesome arent they? I ran on Revo stage 2+ for a little while but couldnt get the boost control I wanted, most who stick with Revo 2+ (and you can) add in a boost controller, just something to look out for on the dyno. What do you see boost wise on VCDS? I was seeing 2.1 bar on the first upramp of boost even at B4.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

Happy days, solid work mate really happy for you. Just awesome arent they? I ran on Revo stage 2+ for a little while but couldnt get the boost control I wanted, most who stick with Revo 2+ (and you can) add in a boost controller, just something to look out for on the dyno. What do you see boost wise on VCDS? I was seeing 2.1 bar on the first upramp of boost even at B4.

Thanks mate. It peaks to 2 bar (all my gauge can read. Will see what it holds at today.

See how this dyno turns out, plus the car won't be getting much abuse over winter.

 

[Dt_racing]

Looking forward to seeing the results, I never dyno'd mine on Revo, would have been interesting. In the end so long as your happy with it thats all that matters.

 

[S3Alex]

You're finding a few of the problems we saw initially.

The boost pipe clips that VAG use aren't up to the job of holding upwards of 1.7bar,and I had the same issue of the piping blowing apart a few times before we changed some of it completely.

One other thing.....the ECU doesn't deal with boost levels in excess of 1.7bar,and apart from custom tuners such as Rick,who can find a way around this,you may have to use an external boost controller to manage this properly.

Revo's Stg3 software alone couldn't deal with it,and I used an external controller until we changed the ECU entirely.

 

[Ice man]

Sorry dont want to be a smart *** here! but there is not any problem for a good calibrator this dayes to make ecu to adjustt stable boost up to 2bar and more on this ecu. If you know the wastgate pressure and linærity this no problem

 

[S3Alex]

Sorry dont want to be a smart *** here! but there is not any problem for a good calibrator this dayes to make ecu to adjustt stable boost up to 2bar and more on this ecu. If you know the wastgate pressure and linærity this no problem

Tell that to the tuners that say they can't.

I know those who can.

 

[Ice man]

Tell that to the tuners that say they can't.

I know those who can.

Yes you are right on that Alex. Some tuner looks like they have give up this ecu. I think that must be more to the will or the experince they have with this ecu maybe.

 

[S3Alex]

Yes you are right on that Alex. Some tuner looks like they have give up this ecu. I think that must be more to the will or the experince they have with this ecu maybe.

This is why I made that point with respect to the intended software.

It was a specific issue when I ran that software and if it has not been significantly updated in the last year I would expect it to still be a problem.

There are as we both know those who have worked around it and can tune for higher levels of boost.

I can see understand that putting significant development into something that few will use is maybe seen as poor business but the custom tuners luckily see that as an opportunity.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

I went over to Riverside Racing in Speke for a dyno run. I had my last run there back in June (Revo 2+) to see what power I was making.
Pleased with the result of just bolting on the TTE420 turbo and gaining 45 BHP.

I already have the hardware (RS4 injectors and uprated LPFP) to go stage 3 but need to get Xmas out of the way first.
Below are the dyno runs from June, and todays.

 

[cpc_s3]

love imola yellow s3's great move

 

[Dt_racing]

Brilliant, happy days.The curve is actually better that I expected knowing what i felt on my bum dyno of 2+ software.

 

[S.]

are those figures on revo stage 2+ without adjusting the software?
great gains through rev range!! would love tte420 one day...

 

[Dan-Jnr]

are those figures on revo stage 2+ without adjusting the software?
great gains through rev range!! would love tte420 one day...

The run in June was with settings B8 T5 F6. Didn't have an uprated intercooler then either.

The settings run today (December) were B9 T5 F6 as I have an uprated intercooler installed and obvious hybrid turbo.

 

[Ice man]

Wery nice car and great result on the dyno with TTE420 and revo st2+ software! More to come. mine makes 380Whp and 536Wnm with custom st3 software and RS4 injektors. I still find it strange how good the APR st2+ software and stock injektors works with the TTE420 turbo somtimes i must say!?

 

[S3Alex]

Wery nice car and great result on the dyno with TTE420 and revo st2+ software! More to come. mine makes 380Whp and 536Wnm with custom st3 software and RS4 injektors. I still find it strange how good the APR st2+ software and stock injektors works with the TTE420 turbo somtimes i must say!?

S3 injectors ahould get to around 400bhp maxed out,especially if the HPFP rail pressure is raised.
There are a few aftermarket S3 pattern injectors around which are said to cope with flow sufficient for over 500bhp,but I've never seen any results from any of these.

The subject of WHP to crank Bhp is more difficult with cars using a Hladex rather than a more convetional 4WD system,as the potential losses via the clutch are different,and many dynos are run in 2WD mode for various reasons.

The stock ECU still has a lot to offer for those who don't want the expense of an aftermarket ECU,but it would be very interesting to see what a Syvecs ECU would make from a TTE420.

 

[Dt_racing]

S3 injectors ahould get to around 400bhp maxed out,especially if the HPFP rail pressure is raised.
There are a few aftermarket S3 pattern injectors around which are said to cope with flow sufficient for over 500bhp,but I've never seen any results from any of these.

The subject of WHP to crank Bhp is more difficult with cars using a Hladex rather than a more convetional 4WD system,as the potential losses via the clutch are different,and many dynos are run in 2WD mode for various reasons.

The stock ECU still has a lot to offer for those who don't want the expense of an aftermarket ECU,but it would be very interesting to see what a Syvecs ECU would make from a TTE420.

Dont tempt me...I would love a Syvecs, hmmm thinking. RS4 injectors, IE intake manifold and a Syvecs ECU, could be tasty.

 

[Dan-Jnr]

S3 injectors ahould get to around 400bhp maxed out,especially if the HPFP rail pressure is raised.
There are a few aftermarket S3 pattern injectors around which are said to cope with flow sufficient for over 500bhp,but I've never seen any results from any of these.

I looked at these and found a set that flow 40% for £900, and another company with same flow increase for £1150. Quite expensive.
I did some research and found the FSI injectors from a Cobalt SS flow 30% more than the S3, same dimensions, but requires a harness adapter.

More info http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43120&page=6

 

[S3Alex]

I've seen those and the Bar-tek ones but never seen any real figures.
If the claims are true then they would just about make 500bhp.

That's the RS4 injector limit as well.

Above that you need something like the setup I have.

 

[Ice man]

S3 injectors ahould get to around 400bhp maxed out,especially if the HPFP rail pressure is raised.
There are a few aftermarket S3 pattern injectors around which are said to cope with flow sufficient for over 500bhp,but I've never seen any results from any of these.

The subject of WHP to crank Bhp is more difficult with cars using a Hladex rather than a more convetional 4WD system,as the potential losses via the clutch are different,and many dynos are run in 2WD mode for various reasons.

The stock ECU still has a lot to offer for those who don't want the expense of an aftermarket ECU,but it would be very interesting to see what a Syvecs ECU would make from a TTE420.

Yes i also belived earlier the max on the s3 injektors was 400hp. But this days we see people make 420-440 on the TTE420 and APR software. with 155-165bar rail pressure valve. R-tech also do this. APR Stg3 GTX turbo kit also uses stock S3 injektors on 160bar rail pressure. crasy but it looks like it works som how for them.

On thing to think abouth when it comes to injektors is that cold start cranking time in cold climates is bad with RS4 injektors. The smoke problems is not any problm this days with correct calibration but the cold start i dont think is possible to make really god.

Yes its not easy to use corect corection factor. i use 12% loss to be safe.

 

[Ice man]

I looked at these and found a set that flow 40% for £900, and another company with same flow increase for £1150. Quite expensive.
I did some research and found the FSI injectors from a Cobalt SS flow 30% more than the S3, same dimensions, but requires a harness adapter.

More info http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43120&page=6

I am sure you already know this, but the TSI injektors will not fit the FSI cylinder head.

Audi/VW TSI and Cobalt uses HDEV 5 style injektors and FSI uses HDEV 1 style.

 

[S3Alex]

Yes i also belived earlier the max on the s3 injektors was 400hp. But this days we see people make 420-440 on the TTE420 and APR software. with 155-165bar rail pressure valve. R-tech also do this. APR Stg3 GTX turbo kit also uses stock S3 injektors on 160bar rail pressure. crasy but it looks like it works som how for them.

On thing to think abouth when it comes to injektors is that cold start cranking time in cold climates is bad with RS4 injektors. The smoke problems is not any problm this days with correct calibration but the cold start i dont think is possible to make really god.

Yes its not easy to use corect corection factor. i use 12% loss to be safe.

As far as the injectors go,up to a point increasing rail pressure will increase flow which is how this works.

I never had cold start issues with the RS4s but getting them to run cleanly was always a problem with the mapping I ran at the time.

The Syvecs uses 4port and 4direct injectors and is quite something after all the things before.

 

[Ice man]

As far as the injectors go,up to a point increasing rail pressure will increase flow which is how this works.

I never had cold start issues with the RS4s but getting them to run cleanly was always a problem with the mapping I ran at the time.

The Syvecs uses 4port and 4direct injectors and is quite something after all the things before.

Just because I'm curious. how cold is it in wintertimes in your area S3Alex?

 

[Dan-Jnr]

I am sure you already know this, but the TSI injektors will not fit the FSI cylinder head.

Audi/VW TSI and Cobalt uses HDEV 5 style injektors and FSI uses HDEV 1 style.

My bad, typing too quickly whilst playing Xbox. Yeah you are correct. TSI not FSI.

 

[S3Alex]

Just because I'm curious. how cold is it in wintertimes in your area S3Alex?

Worst,when I had the RS4s in the car was -10C,and no starting problems.
What I did have though was poor cold running(i.e. the thing wouldn't pull any load above 3000rpm until warm) but that wasn't the injectors,it was down to the software not managing the RFD and the manifold when cold.

With the new ECU,none of that ever happens.

 

[LiamS3]

I ran my injectors at 430bhp, I've heard the Standard S3 Injectors will reach upto and around 500bhp after that you would need to look at 4 extra Injectors, RS4 Injectors or Hybrid HGP Injectors which claim they flow 60% more than Standard S3 ones!

Anyway, we'll soon find out... Mine should be getting mapped soon and I'm still running Standard Injectors and 165bar FPV, if they can't cope I may look into the Hybrid HGP ones.

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

The Standard injectors are completely on their max at a genuine 400bhp. You can't compare Ecotunes Dyno with a Dyno Dynamics, the former reads significantly higher. At circa 300bhp, Ecotune reads 20bhp higher than a Dyno Dynamics. On Dyno Dynamics, Revo Stage 2+ cars make 330bhp, APR Stage 2+ 350bhp. I have run several on my own Dyno.

The uprated S3 injector pattern injectors work very well and have come down in price. I tuned a set a few year ago for a European customer and they flowed significantly more and drive like stock. My advise is to go for these if you can afford them, and if not the RS4. Running crazy rail pressures is not the way to do it. The early TFSI fuel system is not designed for it, and the pump, cam and follower suffers from wear.

You don't need any kind of aftermarket ECU to get more power. These aftermarket ECU's are nice for track and race cars due to their ease of calbration, but they are also painfully basic compared to the OEM ECU. The only reason people use them is when their tuner cannot properly calibrate the OEM ecu for such drastically changed hardware. The ability to run port injection as standard is nice though.

Dan - if you are about I will give you a free Dyno run as a comparison and check it's running safely - all in the name of research

Rick

 

[Dt_racing]

I love this thread, great discussions and info. Very interested in these uprated injectors, where can they be found? I was on the verge of buying a set of RS4's but if these are in any way justifiable (and I can justify a lot) I may well go for it and be back up to see you Rick for a map tweak.

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/lshop...si,21tf055,113,Tshowrub--1138132527.tfsi,.htm

Cheaper than I thought too!

 

[Ice man]

http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/lshop...si,21tf055,113,Tshowrub--1138132527.tfsi,.htm

Cheaper than I thought too!

Here is also another comapny selling Injektors they clame is correct for 2.0TFSI engine:
https://www.turboperformance-shop.d...73/einspritzduesen-komplettset-2.0-tfsi-450ps

Wondering if this injektors in reality is RS3 injektors or the new RS5 4.2 multiport injektors. both fits the 2.0tfsi sylinder head. they only need adaptors to connect to stock harness.

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

Don't think they are multiport RS4 as they weren't around when I first used them.

 

[Ice man]

Don't think they are multiport RS4 as they weren't around when I first used them.

Ok. You think they maybe can be RS3 injektors then? Loba motorsport are selling a 2.0tfsi fuling kit that includes RS3 injektors. No modyfying is nedded, only need to remove the slaves on tip of injektors and they will fit in TFSI head.

 

[S3Alex]

You don't need any kind of aftermarket ECU to get more power. These aftermarket ECU's are nice for track and race cars due to their ease of calbration, but they are also painfully basic compared to the OEM ECU. The only reason people use them is when their tuner cannot properly calibrate the OEM ecu for such drastically changed hardware. The ability to run port injection as standard is nice though.



Rick

If you're referring to what I'm using I think "painfully basic" does it a serious injustice.

I know some are but this just isn't.


I completely respect what you're able to do,which is why I point a lot of people in your direction knowing what you have achieved above the generic tuners.

If you do run a set of the Bartek injectors I'd be very interested to see what they can do.