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Ignitron ECU

S3AMJ Dec 31, 2019

  1. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I have checked and all pipe look in good condition.
    I have ordered a fuel regulator and pressure sensor for peace on mind.
    Fuel pump is next on list as new engine being fitted in the summer so I want to iron all probs on car 1st.
    thanks for link on fuel pump, is that in addition to existing fuel pump, Like an inline booster?
    I was thinking of going for a DW65 or the HFP-A35HV

    Had another 25 mile trip as I had to pop into work, recorded a few logs after I upped the map by 10 over 3000RPM above 100kPa boost.
    If I accelerated relatively hard and changed just over 4000RPM she was happy ish.
    If I gave her full throttle from 3000 she would kick and go till about 5000 and engine light would come on :(
    Even with the low maximum boost set, she pulled.
    After checking log, 1st thing I noticed was the lambda was causing the limp mode because it was low ???
    RPM: 5002, load: 214.7%, reason->lambda: 0.861

    This is very repeatable under boost around 5000RPM.
    Please see logs below.
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU.zip
    once again, many thanks
     
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  3. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I took car for a drive today after change the VE map above 3000RPM and above 100Kpa by 10
    this seems to make no difference as she would repeatable go into limp mode at almost exactly 5000RPM on WOT.
    if I accelerated slowly I could climb the RPM range without limping.
    i checked the logs and she was going into limp mode because:
    RPM: 5002, load: 214.7%, reason->lambda: 0.861
    This looks strange, as lambda reading looks okay to me, How do I add to view what lambda is being requested in the log?
    Thanks for fuel pump link, is this an inline pump just to boost the fuel?
    I was thinking of a DW65 or variation of it. Demon tweaks has a variation for £78, I might go tomorrow to fetch one depending of replies.
    I have also ordered a fuel regulator and pressure sender. Expect them to arrive in the new year.

    Please see below new logs from today
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU.zip

    once again, many thanks for your help and advice.

    sorry for repeat, Laptop battery died,
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  4. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Fuel pump I linked is a good quality replacement for the standard in tank pump. The DW65 pump doesn't seem to have very good reliabilty. I have one in my car ATM but it failed originally after about 9 months and now just acts as a feed pump to a Bosch 040 in line pump which does all the real donkey work. There are a other pumps that seem to work better and are more reliable. Sytec pumps are made by Walboro who are a major player in the fuel pump market and make a lot of OE stuff. This would support 4-450 bhp.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sytec-Mo...Golf-MK4-R32-2002-05-300LPH-ADV/353197689852?

    Really looking to me like the fuel pressure is the issue unless those injectors you have installed aren't 610cc ?. Where did they come from are you 100% sure that they are 610cc. The fuel trim is steadily rising as it tries to keep the Lambda under control. Boost regulation looks good. Fuel injection duty at 75% on 240bhp is much the same as you would see with standard 384cc TT injectors.

    I have created a quick video showing how to add , delete and mess with the logs a bit. You can create and save templates for yourself. When you remove or add something on a log page as soon as you move to another log such as moving from ECU to ABS those changes are lost. And you will see the full original data if you go back to ECU.
    Sorry about the poor audio quality not something I usually do the microphone is years old and not very good.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ty3jv6mppkbmrvb/Ignitron logging check.mp4?dl=0


    upload_2020-12-23_21-45-35.png
     
  5. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    many thanks for video and to show where where target lambda is, this software is just full of extras, i am supper impressed with it.
    The 610s I got from Badger5, so no worries there. My previous 346cc duty cycles were maxed out (112%) at 3800RPM, so 610s are great
    I agree, the car has a fueling issue, I will order Sytec pump today. A new regulator and pressure sensor is on the way.
    Not much I can do till then.
    Many thanks for all your help, will post after said items are fitted
    Merry Christmas all
     
    desertstorm likes this.
  6. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    So I’ve been thinking about this a while now and a recent conversation with @hydro s3 I’ve been thinking about what to use for a method of switching between maps using Ignitron. Originally the cruise control switches were used, however I want to retain to full use of cruise control.

    I like the idea of putting a simple subtle rotary switch below the headlight switch in that little (coin) cubby hole.

    [​IMG]
    What do you guys think? Would this be a suitable option.....

    https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/rotary-switch-4-position-1224-v.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Hi, I think having switchable maps would be great to have in a secret location such as the coin chubby, easy to get too place.
    Very useful feature E.G when sending the car for MOT.
    It can be turned right down.
    Let me know how you wired this into spare input pins on iECU.
     
  8. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Bill posted something on FB a while ago using a 12 way rotary switch and the flex fuel input to effectively give 12 different discrete boost levels
    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/282586122242851/permalink/887274121774045/
    Not entirely sure this would work 100% as the advantage with the 4 boost presets is they all have different intergrator and PID settings .
    You can configure any available spare input as preset 1 to increment the map . If you want to put a strict limit on performance just temporarily limit rpm to something like 4K. Plenty for an MOT but the car isn't going to be silly fast.
     
    S3AMJ likes this.
  9. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    12 way rotary switch and flexi fuel..... interesting. That would be good for an all out track car I’m guessing.

    I don’t have Facebook so can’t see the link you’ve posted up Karl.

    What are you currently using to swap maps?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Just a quick update.
    Fitted new fuel pump, hopefully will see trims not maxing out and causing limp mode.
    Replaced hydraulic steering rack. was a bitc.. to drive without it
    Dropped off car last nite car at Bala bodyshop to get wheel alignment done so not tested her yet.
    Bala body shop was closed due to f...ing Covid, so not sure when they are going to reopen.
    I an thinking of using the wizard from the beginning and reset the iCU , and following the TUNING CHECKLIST_1 sent to me by Dessertstorm.
     
  11. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    Need a we bit of help. Probably a very basic question but I'm totally useless with computers.
    I was driving and the car went into limp mode because of the lambda went over 1.232. I need to get the log from it so that Bill can have a look and see what's happened but I don't know where to look to download it and save it to. I have looked on YouTube incase it has been covered by Bill but didnt find nothing.
    I only know how to do logging with it on tablet mode which is no use now.
     
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  13. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    Got it sorted now. Bill just made a YouTube video of it so it is there now incase anyone else needs it.
     
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  14. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Great I will need to watch it too
     
  15. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Picked up car from body shop.
    Let car warm up and did a quick scan.
    Boost is still turned down and gave her a burst.
    She was great, logs where telling me fuel trims where removing fuel by 12%
    whippee.
    Thanks for advice Storm dessert, you were spot on.
    went with your suggestion and fitted Sytec 300LPH fuel pump.
    Should I do a reset and follow your TUNING CHECKLIST from the beginning now hope fully highlighted engine issues are sorted?
    Many thanks
     
  16. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Glad you have sorted the issue and hopefully you should be able to move on mapping the car. Don't be in any hurry to wind the boost up . Better to di it incrementally and make sure all is good with the fuel trims, EGT's boost response etc.
    you could reset it and start from scratch again and hopefully the VE map and fuel trims will get sorted correctly this time.
     
  17. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Well we have had quite a bit of snow, so not driver car much. :(
    done a 200 miles with no boost and adjusted fuel trims, always seems to be taking away from my fuel map. which is a good sign as fuel pump must be preforming.
    I have a bit of an exhaust leak from manifold into turbo which I must fix, not only because its annoying, but can smell fumes in the cab.
    Turned turbo on today and turned down boost before setting of from work for my journey way home and recorded log.
    took it easy and a few burps on the boost, good, no limp mode.
    Please see attached recorded log for you valued input as always.
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU-02.zip
    I have only adapted lambed map so far, I am still getting adaptation feed back. which shows me it still has some learning to do.
    What is an acceptable level of requested lambda adjustment? and what to do next?
    Many thanks
     
  18. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    If you have a blow at the manifold that can affect lambda readings under certain conditions as it can draw air in through the leak

    <tuffty/>
     
  19. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks Tuffy, very possible.
    Ordered new gasket
    I now have another issue, I left my interior lights on at work today and battery ran flat, so at lunch time I put her on charge.
    She started 1st time but engine management light can on.
    I reset faults continuously on way home and comes back on after about 3 seconds
    Fault code is: "
    X0002- CPU EEPROM checksum error
    Constant, frequency:1, duration:1
    Rpm: 0, load: 0.0%, value :$00100 "
    any Ideas or input aprreciated
     
  20. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If I had to take a guess I would say that either the map is corrupt or the firmware image is corrupt. You have checksums on a program to make sure that if the software is altered in anyway you know about it. On a normal ME7.5 if you get a checksum error the car will not start at all.
    Balazs is the best person to advise you but I would reload the map first and see if that fixes it. I will post a link on the Ignitron facebook page and ask the question.

    Code:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/282586122242851
     
  21. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    EEPROM is used to store various settings which may change while usage. Best example is adaptation data (fuel trims, ...).
    EEPROM is updated before ECU shuts (powers) itself down, probably the last write failed when the battery went flat.
    You should do a throttle body basic settings procedure, and throttle pedal basic settings (these functions all access EEPROM). Then please reset your fuel trims (all with ignition switch on) and then turn ignition switch off, unplug USB cable. After 1 minute with ignition and USB off the ECU should power itself down (after updating its EEPROM contents). Next time when you power it on, you should be able to clear the fault.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  22. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Many thanks for quick support.
    I tried to do the above without any success, from a laptop and from a tablet.
    Also tried doing a reset and running the set up from the base file wizard and over writing the iECU with a totally new file.
    Left car standing for 15 minutes, with ignition off and USB unplugged.
    The fault clears momentarily, for approx 3 seconds.
    The car runs beautifully besides the warning light.
    I turned this off in Fault code in the Diagnostics, temporarily, but as soon as I enable it the fault reappears.
     
  23. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    Thanks. This fault will not affect performance or reliability in any way (the $00100 memory address is not used at all). I will include a complete "clear wipe" function of the EEPROM in the next windows host revision, so you will be able to get the entire EEPROM (adaptation and fault code) memory of your ECU reset back to defaults. ECU will forget faults, fuel trims, learned TPP and TPS settings, TPS adaptations, etc... but not the settings file as it is stored in a Flash memory (not EEPROM).
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
    desertstorm likes this.
  24. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Many Thanks, I look forward to update.
    Car is still performing perfecto.
    I will just remove the x002 from the diagnostic faults codes for now.
     
  25. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Car is going well.
    Fixed exhaust leak temporarily today, The turbo only was holding on one bolt, one was finger loose and one missing.
    Ordered new gasket and bolts.
    Much more pleasant to drive and no fumes in cab.
    Also noticed boost has increased, Yeah!
    The fuel trims are not perfect but she is getting better with each run.
    How much boost can I request safety? Or have I gone passed that already?
    Sure there was some wheel spin in forth today when I gave her a full boost.
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU-03.zip
    Not sure what is next step, all I have done is lambda adaptation.
    Surely I can get more out this engine (bhp and educational wise) before I fit new engine.
    The new engine is stripped and at work ready for reboring as soon as there is a gap on the mill.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  26. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    There was wheel spin that takes away a load of throttle when the ABS/ESP kicks in. But you weren't accelerating in a straight line looks like you were driving down a bendy road looking at the steering trace. No point in having more power if the car won't put it down.. Do you have decent tyres on the car?.
    upload_2021-1-29_23-34-44.png

    Looking at the boost request 1.6 bar all the time and the wastegate duty cycle hits 100% at around 5400 RPM which means the wastegate is fully shut and it can still only manage just over 1 bar of boost. The EGTs are climbing quick at that point. Plenty of fuelling left just don't have a turbo that can provide the airflow.
    upload_2021-1-29_23-50-54.png

    The ignition advance looks a little low. No signs of knock could probably add more timing. No point in requesting 1.6 bar boost.
     
  27. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks for detailed reply Karl.
    The max boost was just over 230Kpa, so should I set that to my target boost? should I think about changing waste gate spring or is that boost an acceptable amount for K04 turbo?
    also what form should boost map look like.
    Tyres are P-zero all round.
    I have not played with timing, There is a learn and knock adaptation but not changed anything there.
    Can I increase or decrease some values to learn quicker in this section?
    I would like to learn a much on this engine as I can as I have awhile before rebuilt engine will be ready. Time and money constraints.
    At what point should I think about getting this engine professional tuned, or should I wait for new engine to be fitted
    Really enjoying tinkering, the iECU is great, so is having input on this forum.
    Much appreciated.
     
  28. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    A K04 won't make much more than 1.4-1.5 bar at it's peak around 3000 RPM. I would set a 1.4 bar max boost from say 2500 to 5000 rpm then drop the boost down to about 1.1 bar at 6500 rpm. This was the dyno print out of my stage 2 with a K04 . you can see the boost trace at the bottom. A KK04 is a small turbo and just cannot support big boost at high RPM.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks Karl
    Should it look a bit like this

    upload_2021-1-31_13-29-39.png

    If I get my boost requests more realistic as to what my turbo can achieve, will this help with fuel trims?
     
  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    You should be tuning the low end of the map without boost or at the very least actuator pressure until you are happy the injectors are dialled in correctly and the lower end trims are in a happy place... then you can start adding boost and dialling in not only boost request but getting the PID tuned so it doesn't overshoot and follows your curve correctly...

    Do you have rods out of interest?

    <tuffty/>
     
  31. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks Tuffy.
    This is all new, did start off with no boost for awhile, but adding boost showed I had a fuel pressure fault.
    I would only of found this out at a much latter stage and wasted a lot of time if I had done it correctly and followed advice.
    I have no clue as to current engine states and just willing to try to learn as much as possible without blowing her up.
    In the market for rods, 81.5mm pistons, gt25-550 turbo or similar
     
  32. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If you have stock rods I wouldn't be going over 1.4 bar really. It takes just seconds to bend rods or worse break one and the engine is a bin job. If you don't mind wrecking the engine carry on plugging in big numbers and see how fast you can make it go.
    The thing that may be saving your engine at the moment is the lack of traction. With more grip this will increase the loads on the engine / rods.
     
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  34. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    Yes take care. K04-s can bend rods! Seen it numerous times.
    Do not even think about launch control or anti-lag with OEM rods.
     
  35. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    You can also bend H-Beam forged rods too... apparently !! :whistle2:

    <tuffty/>
     
  36. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    haha Tuffy.
    I have taken advice and turned down boost.
    TBH, there is very little difference. Maybe because turbo was not providing enough air after 4500rpm.
    Here is boost map I am now running.
    upload_2021-2-2_13-20-28.png

    Any comments and advice welcome, also info on adjusting timing, or what to do next to get engine running even better.
     
  37. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Are you logging request vs actual boost? have you done any work on the PID control for the boost map? adjusting the boost map is only one par tof it... need to tune the PID to ensure its not over shooting on spool etc

    <tuffty/>
     
  38. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You aren't getting a load of wheel spin now so the actual power you have is being deployed. Absolutely no point in asking for boost targets that are not attainable. There is more to engine tuning than making as much boost as possible. As Bill always says it's about the flow. If you ask for too much boost the turbo will just spin faster and as it does so efficiency will drop meaning it makes more boost but the air will be hotter. The wastegate will need to be closed to generate enough energy to spin the turbine, this creates back pressure in the exhaust manifold. High back pressure in the exhaust manifold means there is exhaust gas left in the cylinder . This reduces the space for fresh mixture to flow in. So although you have high boost pressure you have poorer flow and less power. Have a look at the boost response specified and actual as Tuffty says and make sure boost is being controlled correctly.
    The base ignition timing map on Ignitron is safe and as long as you are sure that the knock is working and the boost is under control you can start adding some extra ignition advance. Obviously if you see knock then you have hit the limit at that point and it's best to take a degree or two out of timing at that point.
    Looking at the ignition timing that was on the map you posted the other day you could probably add 3-4 degrees in this area with no issues.


    upload_2021-2-2_19-34-4.png
     
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  39. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I am in the Q7 today but will do a log on way to work tomorrow (3rd and 4th gear up to 6000Rpm) and compare boost request vs manifold actual pressure.
    Is my turbo map tapering off to much after 5000rpm?
    Hopefully I will not see it dropping off as it was before at 5000RPM.
    Totally makes sense you explaining it like that Karl.
    So the bigger the turbo, the less work it has to do and therefore the waste gate can be open more frequently, creating less back pressure in the exhaust. therefore allowing better flow. Hmmm, totally makes sense!
    I will keep an eye on knocks and increase timing as suggested.
    Many Thanks
     
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  40. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    Just came into my mind, that if you reflash firmware (above V1.24) that erases most of your EEPROM memory, too (still not everything).
    You may give it a try to reflash fw (if you are at least on the V1.24 Supernova).
     
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  41. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Hi Baliszoft
    So this morning I flashed iECU, and drove to work.
    The engine light did not come on due to eeprom checksum error but the warning was in the log file.
    Looks like I will need to wait for a new firmware release, iECU is working perfect

    I did a little pull and saved log this morning. Car felt better with boost turned down and log should an increase in power??? over 300hp
    There is a bit of lag whilst turbo builds up but request and actual measurements do try to follow each other and not to bad in my limited knowledge.
    Now that I have lower boost request, the turbo seems to be able to provide enough air.
    I notice that at the higher RPM under boost it actually is higher than requested values.
    Waste gate is at almost 90% on boost, so is this helping engine breath better compared with 100% and requesting higher boost levels.
    Sseems to me this boost is a little low but maybe it suits my engine.

    Fuel trims after 5000RPM need adjusting, else the fueling looking much better with new Fuel pump fitted.
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU-04.zip
    I will advance the timing a bit before I set off home, keeping an eye on knocks.
    All comments will be greatly received.
    upload_2021-2-4_13-32-30.png
     
  42. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The boost levels are more in line with what the turbo can provide. Sometimes less is more.
    I would try adding another 0.1 bar of boost across the top line of the boost request and then use the vertical interpolation to smooth it. Should end up with something like this.

    upload_2021-2-4_14-58-43.png
    Do a 3rd gear acceleration run from about 1500 rpm. So flat out acceleration from around 1500 in third gear to 660-6800 rpm .

    What fuel are you running?
    If it's a 99 RON like shell super or I use Tesco Momentum you could try altering the base map as I suspect you have selected low octane fuel.
    If you are only running normal fuel it does a good amount of difference on these engines.
    Goto the file option and tick the base file wizard.
    All the options are ticked by default. Untick everything except what you want to alter. So just tick High octane and also your throttle position to throttle body position looks a bit lazy. I suspect you may have selected the comfort position. Try the sporty one.
    Save the file and write it to the car.

    upload_2021-2-4_15-16-10.png
     
  43. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    Yes, it will stay there until you clear faults.
     

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