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Ignitron ECU

S3AMJ Dec 31, 2019

  1. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    What is your real name (message me)
     
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  3. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Bill just explained to me that the iECU is great but not idiot proof and I should be careful. Lol. Point taken.
    I have reset iECU with new wizard, Unplugged MAF and N75 valve.
    Going to take a nice easy 25 mile trip home just now and save log.
    I have reviewed the learned lambda adaptation vid and it was a bit of a light mode moment.
    Many thank for your guidance and advice
     
  4. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Drove car home tonight with just wizard setting, MAF and N75 Valve disconnected.
    It was a pleasant trip and enjoyed the winey roads, Its approx. 25 miles round a lake and over the mountain.
    In the morning, on the way to work I pass 3 cars, all going the opposite direction, I only have to stop twice but seldom do.
    I was thinking about how my car should be dead is it was not for iECU with a smile.
    When I first installed it and drove home I thrashed it and was not impressed about performance, kept going to limp mode, and kept on resetting it, I then just turned limp mode off.
    To try and self diagnose this, I came to the conclusion that ADT must off up the fuel pressure to get so much power. S o I set then 346cc injectors to 460cc and wrote that to iECU. Car ran better so thought I was on the write track. Car never went into limp mode even under boost, but I was no where near ADT performance.
    Got a PM from Bill today and after a quick chat, I realised on my way home I have been an idiot and am privileged that there are so many caring users on this group and that I am a prime subject to start from basics to everyone else who gets an iECU amazing piece of kit.
    I got home after keeping of the boost pedal and was very chuffed with my driving. I could not wait to see the Lambda maps and do some adaptation.
    Car felt really strong and responsive with the setup.
    Parked up and went to retrieve the log, only to notice I had disabled logging.
    Very upset, but tomorrow is another day.
     
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Best to log using ignitron/laptop/tablet if you can than rely on auto log for mapping... autolog is more a backup for key metrics of data and does not log everything that IECU provides and it provides a LOT of data... :)

    If you are driving about specifically for generating logs then logging via ignitron or tablet mode on a laptop/tablet will give the best data to refer back to tbh

    <tuffty/>
     
  6. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks Tuffy. Loved your journey to the universe of the 8L Audi thread.
    I have to work tomorrow and will log S3 tomorrow even though I have sprung a leak in power steering fluid.
    will help with the staying off boost.
     
  7. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Hi all.
    Please find attached setup file and log from this mornings easy drive to work for your input/comments
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/iECU.zip
    I started the autolog and a manual record, somehow the manual record did not save, user error I suspect.
     
  8. baliszoft

    baliszoft Registered User

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    You can re use pin 29 of course. MAF wiring also has GND, +5V and +12V there if you need.
    Going higher in fuel pressure means higher load on the fuel pump, so it is best avoided if possible.
    If your fuel pressure is already low that would just make things worse.
    BTW: upgrading from 3bar to 4bar FPR requires change in injector size (roughly +15%) and injector dead times (as they are significantly higher at 4bar).
     
  9. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    @TrueSoft why are you changing from a 3 bar FPR to a 4 bar FPR? Just curious as I'm getting the ecu fitted and he is using a 3 bar one. Are you running a big turbo on it is that the reason?
     
  10. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Hi all,
    Just to clear up. I thought my car was running 4 bar as it was tuned by ADT and injectors where 346cc instead of 387cc, so I incorrectly presumed that ADT had uped the feul pressure.
    This is not the case, I am running 3 bar.
    sorry for confussion, my fault.
    Car is running rather wel from wizard setup. I am starting to log data and for the moment just checking lamda adaptation chart.
    There are a few spikes that need ironing out but before I do anything I want more data and will aske Badger 5 nicely to take a look.:)
     
  11. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks to all for input and sharing knowledge and free valued advise.
    I am old school, from distributors and points.
    I am building a new motor in my shed and want to do it right 1st time, hence the iECU.
    I have been given appreciated advice as to do this and that. All of which I sort of understand but most is Greek.
    Like why did you have :
    TPS -Alpha-N selected instead of MAP-Speed density. ??
    So I want to learn, My car was tuned by ADT and I just love it.
    This is what has been done.
    All body work cut out, repaired and sprayed.
    new oil pump and pickup
    Brakes and wheel bearings
    Poly bushes fitted threw out.
    Coil overs and new suspension arms
    19" rims
    3" exhaust. 80mm tip and intake filter.
    FMIC
    iECU
    new steering rack
    Until the new forged engine is fitted, bigger turbo, injectors etc, I would like to learn about the iECU.
    So far I have had the iECU installed for a few weeks and do not know what I am doing and the car is not happy either.
    I have put the ADT ECU back in a few times and she puts the smile back on my face.
    I am absolutely committed to the iECU and would like to learn as much as possible before I fit the new forged motor as it could be very costly.
    The ADT tuned ECU had a 3" street race exhaust, 346cc injectors, else everything else looks standard, MAF intake box etc, but goes so well.
    I would like to get the car to go as good as the ADT ECU on the iECU with same setup, as a starting point for my learning.
    I think this will be valuable learning for me being a novice to ecu motor modification.
    Any help to achieve my 1st goal to get it to this stage is welcome.
     
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  13. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Sorry ABT not ADT :)
     
  14. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Sorry ABT tuned not ADT :)
    Drove home tonight with no MAF and no N75 valve connected in Map - speed density.
    I drove nicely watching the Lamda adaptation, not much was happening in the adaptation data.
    So I switched to sensor overview, and gave a bit of boost in 3rd from 3000 RPM 4900RPM.
    Oh my, it was like an explosion, and engine and the engine went into limp mode.
    I had a look at logs when I got home. which is a great feature.
    Injectors Duty = 112.5%, Boost = 21.8 Psi, Lamda = 1.138 @ 4970 RPM
    I was so impressed with that little pull.
    This weekend I am going to fit the 610cc injectors and fit new MAP to intake manifold.
    Pretty sure I need to connect N75 valve back else I could be bending rods.
    Got a smile on again.
     
  15. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Won’t be long now.......


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    you got 21psi on actuator pressure? you should either unplug the N75 electrically or unroute the N75 in the outputs while doing the basic adaptions before venturing into 'boost'

    <tuffty/>
     
  17. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    No wonder it went into limp mode with Lambda at 1.1 . Running that lean on full boost is not good at all. If the engine has stock rods it's very easy to bend one especially if your boost request is too high at lower RPM. Be sensible and build upto what you want and you will get it running well.
     
  18. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    with my injectors maxing out, I plan to fit the 610s tomorrow as lean is going to kill the engine.
    The car has done 205K miles with no previous history.
    exhaust was 3" down pipe with twin cats
    Number plate says " AUTOHAUS WOLFSBURG=ABT TUNING"
    Is there a easy way on checking if engine has been forged?
    the 21.8 PSI was measured from the stock MAP before the throttle body. Going to move it whilst I am off for a few weeks now.
    I have electrically unpluged the N75 valve, could this mean the N75 valve is faulty?
     
  19. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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  20. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Only way you can tell if the engine is “forged” is taking the sump off and seeing what rods you’ve got in there. Be a good time to check your oil pick up pipe, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I replaced Oil pump and pick up a few months ago. about 1500miles, hence my oil emoji.
    I have taken a few pics under engine whilst sump was off, else I will take sump back off next week to be sure, else will keep boost to a sensible level.
    Not sure how, but will fit M75 valve back and look under boost settings I suppose.
     
  22. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Fitted 610cc injectors, reset up iECU with no Maf, N75 unplugged.
    iECU, like out off the box so to speak.
    Recorded 4th gear pull up a hill and boost pressure was 4-5 P.S.I.
    I had a few lambda correction in the log, car felt good and ran well.
    Plugged in N75 valve and ran up same hill.
    Oh my she pulls. I never ran above 4500 RPM as was so impressed and worried about whether I have forged piston/rods or not.
    So out of the box, the iECU is fast.
    at 3800 rpm under boost with the 610cc injectors I am getting around 70% injector duty cycle and a lambda reading of 0.894 which is good I think.
    My boost is 21.8P.S.I which I think is bad. I would like to turn this down.

    log below
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/S3-NoMaf.ilf
    Many thanks
     
  23. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  24. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You are requesting a flat 1.5 bar boost all the way through the rev range ?? Why. The fuel trims are maxed out at 25% which should put it into limp or at least give a CEL . You need to make sure the injectors are set correctly. 0.89 lambda is better than 1.1 but you should aim for something between 0.8 and 0.85 really. If that engine has stock rods it won't be long before they are bananas , calculated torque is 420Nm.
    There doesn't appear to be any knock . EGT's hit 920 degrees .
    You need to turn the boost down and sort the fuel trims out before you do anything else.
    upload_2020-12-20_18-46-24.png
     
  25. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Requested boost pressure is here you need to change the top row to something like 200-210 max and rescale the rest of the map. SOrt the boost control out and the fuelling before you start winding things back up.


    upload_2020-12-20_18-54-28.png
     
  26. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  27. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I am like a kid with a new toy who does not know what to do.
    Many thanks for your time to go threw the log, going to adjust boost tonight to 170kpa max
    and start logging lambda adaptations
    My LTFT add was -16.8 and LTFT mul 8.8 which as badger said in his video are BAD numbers
    I will apply 170kpa boost settings tomorrow, reset the iECU and post logs tomorrow after a drive.
    How should I drive to get best results from the lambda adaptations menu.
    Once again, many thanks
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you moved the MAP sensor to the inlet manifold yet?

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    who knows
     
  30. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    MapFitted.jpeg Desert, you may be right. Number plate means Jack, I agree Desertstorm
    Like most people on here, I unfortunately have to work for a living. On leave this week, so plan to get things done.
    Fitted new Map sensor to inlet manifold. Wish I had a garage. raining all day.
    Reset iECU settings accordingly. Turned down boost to 190kpa Max.
    She started 1st time and drove very well, even with boost turned down I was impressed.
    I drove about 5 miles at different throttle positions and various loads to try fill up the adaptation map.
    Here are isf and ilf
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU.zip
    will do a decent run to shops tomorrow and get more data.
    Many thanks for all replies
     
    <tuffty/> likes this.
  31. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You never got much over 30mph on that log. Fuel trims are looking a bit better. It takes a while to get the VE map into the right place but when it is all the fuel trims will be good and the car will run much better.
    You have the limp mode disabled. I would enable it, I have mine permanently enabled and it has shown issues with the car that you couldn't feel driving it. The Lambda check can be a lifesaver. I would also tick the EGT and set it at something like 950 .

    upload_2020-12-21_22-33-4.png

    Doesn't look like any corrections to the VE map below 100Kpa???

    upload_2020-12-21_22-45-28.png

    Have you read the tuning checklist document???

    "To speed up the learning process set number in the second column of the “Lambda precision:” to 0.033 (first column is for LTFT ADD, second column is for LTFT MUL). The second “Weight of new value:” should be 50% instead of 20%."

    If you set the highlighted cell to 50% it will populate the VE map quicker.
    upload_2020-12-21_22-48-17.png
    Additive fuel trims are high. Apply the trims that it has calculated so far.

    upload_2020-12-21_22-50-48.png
     
    Rainbird likes this.
  32. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    How does the map sensor seal just drilled into the inlet manifold like that? Air leak on idle vac will create +ve fuel to be asked for around idle.....
     
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  34. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks DesertStorm
    I went for a drive this morning to get some lambda learned values.
    I applied the learned idle values which you suggested and I could hear change the sound of the car change :)
    Did a 30 mile round trip and recorded a few logs.
    The car kept on going into limp mode around 5000 rpm. Always same message.
    X0025 - Limp mode activated
    Constant, frequency: 1, duration: 1
    RPM: 5079, load: 178.6%, reason->lambda: 0.915
    In my adaptation map all the learnt values seem to be negative and nothing when the car went into limp mode @5000RPM
    Are all the white values, values that it has repeatedly learnt.
    Do I just apply theses values and then reset the lambda adaptation figures and repeat the process?
    how do I correct the lambda to prevent the limp mode which is repeatable at around 5000 rpm under boost?

    Have you read the tuning checklist document??? Only read the translated version of the Ignitron iECU manual
    Please send link if you are referring to something else which I will gladly read.
    Todays logs
    www.truesoft.co.uk/s3/Ignitron-ECU.zip
    Many thanks
     
  35. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    Thanks Badger.
    I reamed a 12mm hole for the sensor, drilled and tapped manifold M6
    I milled a 4mm ally spacer so the O-Ring on the sensor sat just into the intake wall (keep O-Ring compressed) when bolted with M6 threads with high pressure sealant.
    On new engine which is planned for summer, I will weld on a boss with blind tapped holes.
     
  36. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    This is a useful tuning checklist, have a read.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/hv5anzu8rnrpnvw/TUNING CHECKLIST_1.doc?dl=0

    limp mode is being activated as lambda is exceeding 0.915 when the engine rpm is over 5000rpm.
    You can see in the first log that the fuel trims are still way out and Lambda is climbing at rpm increases. Should be 0.8 which is the target but is way over that. Probably not causing any damage to the engine at that level but not what the map is calling for. If you go on the ECU tab you can see when the fault code is flagged in the logs. I have just deleted a few tabs and added some in from other screens so you can see whats going on.
    upload_2020-12-22_20-36-40.png

    On the second log same thing. Looks like you got some wheel spin on this one . The step down ECU requested torque with external interventions is the ABS/ESP picking up wheel spin on the front left wheel. that is at 64 mph and the rest at 59mph.

    upload_2020-12-22_20-49-42.png
     
  37. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    When you are doing the trims you need to apply the lambda adaption map
    upload_2020-12-22_20-55-31.png
    Write this to the ECU and then reset the trims so it can start learning again. If you don't write it then it won't be doing anything.

    upload_2020-12-22_20-59-6.png
     
  38. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Running lean at the top end can be due to fuel pump issues sometimes, what pump do you have? You can help the adaption along by manually altering the VE table and increasing numbers. If you look at the VE table at the point on the log where you want to modify the table you will see the appropriate cell highlighted. If you increase the number this will increase fuelling.
    Ignitron can highlight issues with a car that you were unaware of previously.

    upload_2020-12-22_21-8-24.png
     
  39. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Fuel trim maxed out at 25% on this log as well. is the pipe connecting your FPR to the manifold OK. If this has holes in it or not connected properly this will also cause lean running at high boost.
    upload_2020-12-22_21-17-8.png
     
  40. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    yes I see that, thanks for your input.
    How do I get lambda readings at 5000RPM to line up with request id adaptations aren't asking for any changes?
    should I increase or decrease these values? or am I barking up the wrong tree

    map.png
    I will read doc tonight.
    Thanks again
     
  41. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You could add 10 to all those numbers and see where you go from there. what fuel pump do you have and have you checked the FPR connection?
     
  42. TrueSoft

    TrueSoft Registered User

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    I did change to 610cc injectors the other day, FPR and pipes looked in a good clean condition.
    I will do a proper inspection as well as check condition of pipes.
    No Idea what fuel pump is fitted, if the maps fueling is correct and there is a mechanical problem, adding the 10% should not change anything and the engine should still go into limp mode.
    I will also check the logs from running at 21.8 PSI boost and see what injectors and fuel trims were reporting.
    Could well be tired fuel pump. any recommendations?
    Then I think it best to fit a fuel pressure sensor to the rail, fuel regulator and pump.
    Much appreciate your suggestions, explanations and advice
     
  43. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    A fuel pressure sensor is a good idea. You could change the pump and find it makes no difference. However if it's the original pump (just read your previous posts 205K miles) on the car they do get tired and don't flow the volume or pressure of a new one.
    Something like this should support what you are doing ATM.

    https://www.autodoc.co.uk/hitachi/8959026
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020

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