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Ignitron ECU

S3AMJ Dec 31, 2019

  1. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Hello everyone,

    As more and more of us are starting to use this fantastic plug and play standalone ECU, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread. For those like myself who want to ask questions about its features, how to make adjustments and so on.

    Bill at Badger5 is the sole Uk supplier and has been doing a brilliant job uploading various how to’s on YouTube which have been a great help.

    For example:- I went through the lambda adaptions and although mine are looking pretty good with -12 on additive and 1.3% on multi and went about smoothing over the graph in VE adaptions. I wouldn’t have know how to do this if it wasn’t for Bill posting up on YouTube how to do it.

    This ECU is truly a masterpiece and rather it being wasted on someone like me currently know very little about it’s ins and outs, I want to learn and hopefully this thread will help others as well.

    Like for instance, I want to use race mode, launch control and exhaust backfire features on my car, but wouldn’t know where to start..... what values I should put in and to obviously not take it to the point where it will damage the engine.

    Thanks all,

    Ash



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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
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  3. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Registered User Bronze Supporter Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Il be getting one of these when its ready for mappings, but il be too scarred to play with it In case I blow something up,
     
  4. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    This is one of the reasons why I started the thread mate for sure. There are ways of tightening limp mode up so you can avoid that from happening.


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  5. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    So I'm going to start with this and my logical thinking here is probably way off the mark but this is kind of what I was thinking in terms of activating Race Mode via the cruise control on switch. For this purpose I wanted to make Exhaust Backfire switchable. Below is a process I've put together I don't know if it works nor do I advise anyone else do it unless its correct. Hopefully the Guru's can shed some light on it.

    In Audi/VW protocol emulation you see connect to I ticked Cruise Control Switch.
    Ignitron ECU Cruise Control.png

    I then went to Rolling Launch Switch which appears below ABS/ESP once you've ticked Cruise Control Switch, Once in there I deactivated all the switches bar the top one which is the Cruise Control ON Switch and changed it's job to Race Mode Enable .
    Ignitron ECU Race Mode activated by Cruise Control ON.png

    Then I went into the Race Mode tab and enabled it, I also changed it's activation by Dedicated Digital Input I'm assuming that this is suggesting the cruise control switch now. Further down I just ticked Exhaust Backfire only in race mode.
    Ignitron ECU Race Mode Settings for Exhaust Backfire.png

    Finally I then went into the Exhaust Backfire tab and enabled it.
    Ignitron ECU Exhaust Backfire enable.png

    Now I'm 99.98% certain its not as easy as this and I'm sure there are more things you need to do, like for instance changing the values or even if the dedicated digital input option is actually for another button and not cruise control on.

    But i'll leave this here for whoever knows if its right or not.

    This is obviously me just having a mess around with the available features, getting them to work and giving other insight into the amazing world of the Ignitron ECU.
     
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  6. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    Looks very interesting.
    I think I might have to get myself one of the ECU'S. So this thread will be very helpful to start getting my head round what to do.
     
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  7. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Worth every penny mate. Future proofing the investment in your car, any issues and you don’t have to drive or get recovered to your tuner. Just a case of sending the file over to get it checked over, adjusted and sent back to yourself. Bill has been able to do this for me. Can’t praise him and the ECU enough.


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  8. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The Ignitron is a great bit of kit. I would have had to pay somebody a lot of money to map my car to where it is now with 4 different maps, anti lag, launch control etc etc. With the added advantage of the great logging and protection features and being able to run a tablet for instruments it really does the job. There's all kinds of stuff on my TT track car build thread.
    I have never bothered with exhaust backfire never really interested me. I have enabled map switching using the cruise control set button and have different anti-lag settings on one of the other cruise control buttons.
    The block you have ticked for cruise control in the protocol/ emulation I believe is for later models of car where the cruise switch is another module and has to be connected to via the CAN network. On the 8L A3 and 8N TT the cruise control switch is wired directly to the ECU.
    I certainly haven't enabled that to get my inputs working.
    The input from the cruise switch is on ECU pins 38, 57, 75 and 76.
    All the inputs and outputs are detailed in the on line documentation.

    upload_2019-12-31_15-27-56.png
    My race mode enable switch is on the steering wheel and I just teed into the wiring from the cruise control switch.

    On the Boost control you set the amount of presets you want in my case 4 , 1.6 bar, 1.8 bar, 2.0 and 2.1 bar.
    upload_2019-12-31_15-33-5.png
    Use the preset selector to enable what you want to alter with that switch, In my case preset selector 1 alters the boost maps. Map 1 flashes the CEL once , map2 twice etc etc. Different anti lag modes flash the EPC light.

    upload_2019-12-31_15-35-12.png


     

    Attached Files:

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  9. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Karl this is exactly what I’m looking for, I’ve read your build thread on the TT forum. Really great work on the car, Thank you for your input!

    I’m sure I’ll get bored of the popping and banging from the exhaust backfire feature, but being able to switch it on and off is a bonus.... call it a party piece of you will.

    Launch control is definitely one I’d like to adapt and race mode as I’m looking at maybe doing a couple track days and Santa pod this year, nothing serious but just to test the cars limits and how I can make it better, primarily handling and anything else is a bonus.



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  10. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Just be aware that the backfire based setups for antilag, launch and over run will bang the EGT's right up so use with caution (and EGT monitoring)

    <tuffty/>
     
  11. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    I’m assuming the EGTs will stay happier if the intensity is regulated PT? For example 100% intensity for 5 seconds is probably not a good idea! But 30-40% for 3 seconds is more acceptable, like you said EGT monitoring is critical.

    That said, if EGTs do jump higher than 950.C it’ll go into limp mode..... I think.


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  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    The EGT's will rise... thats about all I can really say on the subject as tbh I tried it once and switched it back off straight away...

    Suck it and see but it wasn't for me... from memory the egt's shot up a decent amount (couple of 100 degrees) from cruising temps...

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Thanks mate for the heads up, I’ll give it a go and report back. That’s quite a jump in temps....

    Does this mean the same for launch control as I assume it’s uses the same methods to create exhaust backfire.


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  15. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes but there is a soft launch version supported by ignitron which is less of a strain on stuff...

    Should be noted that to prevent this discussion being interneterised (its a word I made up) in a way that suggests that these features on Ignitron are 'bad'... the methods for launch, ALS and popping and banging in general are widely in use by most after market ECU's as well as the features that get added to ME7... they all generate higher EGT's and are potentially destructive if abused... these features are designed for motorsport use where longevity is generally a trade off for features that give an edge in a competitive environment...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  16. Warsuperior

    Warsuperior Registered User

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    I tested ALS lot with old engine and didnt see terrible EGT temps, tho I didnt use but 1bar settings but I must warn too like Tuffty, the longevity of turbo, engine etc. is reduced or in worst case overused and wrongly done destroys.
    Still Ignitron has been greatest purchase and ECU ever I have done and owned. I can only highly recommend it with now being used it with 1781cc and 2067cc engines.
    I am not very experienced tuner but with Ignitron learning is easier and the support from Bill and customer support in general is nothing like I have ever seen! Its amazing!

    Here is a video about Launch control tests with 1bar, too bad the phone mic cant record the bangs like they really are, deep loud ones :D DONT use with oem catalysator or ones that cant handle it, as you see the exhaust is quite black=lots fuel. I have no-cat
    like rockets in new years eve except shitloads of them in row :D
     
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  17. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    That’s one for the scrabble board for sure! Haha

    On a more serious note I Couldn’t agree with you more mate, and this is the reason why I started the thread. All these things have to be said.

    So everyone including myself understands the benefits and the comprises that comes with the ALS, Launch control, pops and bangs.

    I’m one of the more sensible car enthusiasts as you know, so the use of these features would only be occasional, like days on the track, Santa pod.... And to show off a little to a friend or two.


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  18. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Great thing with Ignitron is everything is customisable to what you want. If you think something is a little to aggressive or not aggressive enough you can tweak it in seconds. Anti lag is very good for accelerating quickly through the gears. On a 1/4 mile run definitely useful.
    This run at Santa Pod had no launch control or anti lag. Only did 3 runs all day, my car wasn't built for drag racing with 3.5 degree of camber on the front traction is not so good. The track was very slick and temps never went over about 5 degrees all day.

    On this run I pressed the race mode button so enabled anti lag and launch control. I hadn't actually messed with launch much so it was no where near aggressive enough. Although you can hear the effect of anti lag on gear changes.

    I found having anti lag enabled for just 0.75S worked fine for me. On the more aggressive settings with it set at something like 3s the noise was epic. Sounded like somebody with an AK47, attracts a lot of attention and doesn't really do the engine, exhaust, turbo much good.
    As Tuffty says Ignitron does nothing different to create these features than a normal tuner would. Some tuners are just happy to charge you some more money for adding these features and not explain to you what they may do to the engine.
    Pretty much on all the feature setup screens there are tick boxes where you can limit the feature if EGT's or ECT is not where you want it.
    So on my car Anti lag will be disabled if the EGT's exceed 920 degrees or if the engine isn't warmed up enough or is a little too hot.
    upload_2019-12-31_18-39-35.png
     
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  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    If I find a spare 5 mins I can port some of my Ignitron stuff from my build thread over... will be the 20v stuff initially but will try and update with my VR6 related stuff... especially once the turbo conversion gets going

    <tuffty/>
     
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  20. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Perfect, just goes to show that even that is enough to help with your drag run! Which is all I’m looking for mate. Nothing excessive, annoying or damaging. Just that little edge and why not if you have the options at your disposal

    What turbo are you running I forgot, wasn’t it the G25-550? I’m running the AET K04-380 hybrid of Bills design. I suspect in a year or two I’ll end up going to the G25.... or maybe G30.


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  21. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Thanks Tuffty, every little helps it will be good to see your car evolve with the ECU, that’ll certainly help TJ when he gets his build all up together


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  22. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    You already getting bored with your hybrid lol.
    This ECU is going to take me a age to get the hang of I suspect. Think I'll do a bit more looking into it before I commit to one.
     
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  23. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Haha no no, not yet. That’s why I want to do a few track days this year.... really get a feel for the car, it’s different than over taking traffic or as Tuffty would say “go to Mexico”

    But you do eventually get used to the power and need that little bit more, you know.... tittering on scary so you never want to push it fully.

    You should definitely get the ECU, when I first looked at it when Tuffty was explaining stuff on his build thread. I was like, wowwwww pretty graphs, but when you start reading into why the graphs show what they show, etc.... it gets pretty interesting.


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  24. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    My car has a G25-660. This is the first engine I have built up with rods, pistons etc. I have mapped quite a few 1.9 pd diesel engines over the years but this was the first petrol with a stand alone ECU. I ran the ECU on my stage 2 275bhp engine before I started the rebuild with the G25 to get the hang of what it does and make sure everything worked OK before rebuilding the engine. I used the wizard to generate a base map for my stage 2 engine and then altered the boost maps etc to match what I had logged .
    On the G25 build Bill gave me a run in map and I sorted the rest of the mapping out myself using the excellent logging facilities and doing incremental changes to timing, boost , fuelling etc to get to where I am now.
     
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  25. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Once you are set on the correct setup, with tablet/laptop logging, you can iteratively and incrementally tune up the ecu to your desires.. Remote assistance is available for those wanting assistance along the way with their tunes. My only concern from what I've seen some folks do so far is over eager to jump straight into high boost, enabling the gimmicks (pops, bangs, crackles, launch etc) without actually having performed a safe/sound base tune. Walk before you can run. My advice.

    Baby steps.
    Careful
     
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  26. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Thanks Bill, as it turned out I didn’t have time to play around with it yesterday. I might get some on the weekend. I’ll start subtle and careful while monitoring everything, increase until it’s enough for what I need. I’m not going to go overboard nor try it. Just to have the launch control working effectively, some pops and bangs until I get bored with them


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  27. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    you're engine, you're risk, so you are aware.
     
  28. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Thank you for giving me the heads up. With further research I’ve decided not to do the exhaust backfire feature..... having heard various with similar setups it’s not quite the desired effect I was looking for and far to antisocial.

    That said from what I’ve researched, launch control isn’t as bad.... correct me if I’m wrong.

    When I’ve launched the the car, it always bogs.

    I was contemplating enabling race mode with the ESP button to keep things simple, disabling traction control and enabling launch control only when in race mode.

    I won’t be using Anti-Lag either as running the AET K04-380 hybrid you supplied I can’t see any real benefit as it spools up pretty rapidly anyway between gear changes.


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  29. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Having played around with the tablet view editor I think I’ve finally got the gauges where I want them...... this will be the display I’ll use for track days.

    It would be nice if eventually Balasz the developer allowed you to change the colours of the gauges. For example the white backing to black. Personal preference of course. Also possibly add a shift light to tablet view.

    [​IMG]

    I’m using the same tablet as what Tuffty has a Linx 8” with windows 10. bought it a few months ago but only recently set it all up for its intended purpose.

    I mounted it with two of magnetic vent phone holders. By far the best I’ve come across and they hold the tablet solid by clamping onto the vents like a vice!

    Search on Amazon - Vanmass magnetic phone holder.

    I did try to put the link up but it keeps changing it to media and failing....

    This is it all mounted up, apologise for the night picture....
    [​IMG]

    I’ll take some more tomorrow.


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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  30. Rainbird

    Rainbird Registered User

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    Nice. I really should get a tablet sorted for mine at some point!
     
  31. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    I have already discussed 'skinning' tablet mode with Brian...

    Its plausible but the focus is functionality from a dev perspective at the moment so won't happen any time soon...

    I even sent him a photoshop mockup ;)
    received_126047364995943.png

    <tuffty/>
     
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  32. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    That’s exactly what I was thinking, looks gooooooood


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  34. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    On track I would be more interested in oil temperature, IAT and Lambda than what gear I am. Tend not to look at the tablet in mine a lot when on track just every now and then to make sure things look OK.
     
  35. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    What would be nice is to be able to build a 'dash' that includes the ability to use a combination of dial and numeric gauges... along with being able to set limits that flash the gauges if the limit is hit (low or high oil pressure for example) as this would be easier to spot in the corner of your eye than a dial gauge...

    Gauges in my experience never get looked at until you feel something is wrong.... at that point the damage may already be done but I tend to use the gauges as an after check so consciously look at them...

    Tbh with Ignitron's logging and in particular its limp mode settings its pretty much set and forget but still would be nice to be able to build a more custom dash of some kind... :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  36. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Yeah those I may squeeze in or like you say remove the gear gauge. Quick question Karl, did you ever try the flat shift feature? I think it’s called shift cut on Ignitron.


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  37. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Yeah those editable features would be ace, I under he wants to have functionality over everything else at this stage. So far so good.... I kind of intend on using the tablet instead of the normal cluster for track days. I shall explain below


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  38. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Here’s a few more pictures for everyone to have a gander at.... you can see the phone holders better now.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As for track days I intend of mounting the tablet in front of the normal cluster like this....

    [​IMG]


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  39. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Also finding it difficult to do a 3rd gear pull to see what my estimated output is.... my mistake is probably rolling a little through 1st and 2nd gear so I don’t stall.

    But I know my cars not putting out 460bhp

    [​IMG]

    For those wondering my start RPM in my 3rd gear pull is 1771rpm

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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  40. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Well worth getting mate, only thing is depending on which tablet you get... navigating can be a little tedious at times. Of course you could you a pen or a Bluetooth mini keyboard/mouse setup which I may end up doing. Sometimes when you press say for example to open a log file, you end up pressing the wrong thing, etc.

    I’ve calibrated the screen several times but doesn’t get any more precise. Something worth noting


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  41. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    I have also asked Brian for a MPH/KPH tick box for us crazy english people

    <tuffty/>
     
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  42. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    You, me and a lot of other people apparently. Hopefully in the next release.
    I have a little test track where I do my 3rd gear pulls. Nice and flat and I always try and accelerate at the same point. Usually go from around 15-1700 rpm.
    The calculation Ignitron makes for power and torque Is quite ball park and seems to vary quite a bit especially with different air temps. I have logged a lot of 3rd gear acceleration runs and used virtual dyno to actually check the vechicle acceleration to better understand what works better. Just because Ignitron gives a bigger bhp/torque reading this doesn't mean the tune has improved. Especially if you have retarded timing due to knock.
     
  43. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    That’s for the win for sure, then my idea having it mounted like above would be complete, with shift light on screen, etc


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