I am thinking of getting the V6 2.5TDi Quattro ...

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Hi guys,

I have seen and discussed a deal with a guy on ebay for a 2002 2.5tdi Quattro Sport.

I have a few issues myself though, mixed emotions about buying it but it is mint, it has every single bell and whistle on a car as it's an ex-demonstrator, 6 Speed box, full leather interior with all electric seats etc, Sat Nav, Cruise, Sunroof (I know, but the wind ... I am also a biker so ...), FSH with everything to prove Audi themselves did everything on the car, just had an MOT with no advisories but my issue is this:

It has 196,000 miles on it and people complain a lot about the engine problems on the 2.5 and he bought it last year to keep it but has now decided to get rid of and then there's the dreaded fuel pump!

Would I be looking at a hefty bill here or would there be a possibility, further down the line (if anything DOES go drastically wrong) of fitting the PD130 in it? I know the wiring is slightly different (probably to a grade I am oblivious to) but is this a possibility as I know you can pull almost the same bhp and have a more reliable car at the end of it all!

Anyone out there "downgraded" from 2.5 to 1.9 that could shed some insight by any chance?

Thanks
 

Mike B

Registered User
Ithink you need to be careful if he has only had a short time.Most tend to keep them if they are in good order.I think this is an early one that could have worn cams.Never heard of anyone swopping for the 1.9 and I expect its not an option.Why not just look for a 1.9 which don't come with the same potential hassle.?
 

mattyb6

Registered User
Buy it and do the pump and cams etc if they doing

It will return the favour by giving you another 196k miles

At the end of the day it's had no advisories so it's mint, I'd put done ££ into the engine and keep it going
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Ithink you need to be careful if he has only had a short time.Most tend to keep them if they are in good order.I think this is an early one that could have worn cams.Never heard of anyone swopping for the 1.9 and I expect its not an option.Why not just look for a 1.9 which don't come with the same potential hassle.?

I hear you but there is not a single one out there I have seen within my budget that has all the options, it's ridiculously equipped!!

Buy it and do the pump and cams etc if they doing

It will return the favour by giving you another 196k miles

At the end of the day it's had no advisories so it's mint, I'd put done ££ into the engine and keep it going

Well I hope so!! ;-)
 

haytch75

Registered User
Do you have a link to the car? The questions I'd be asking are whether it's been on long-life servicing and what expensive bits have been done and when (clutch, belt, pump etc). Mines on 197k at the moment and is honestly unbelievable.
 

frankc

Registered User
If the pump's not gone by now then I'd suspect it's a good one. The pump problems were mostly the EDC in the top of the pump dying. I believe there was an updated version fitted to later pumps and they are generally reliable.

Most of the pump failures I've read about are around early 100k miles. I was a bit hesitant myself when I bought mine at 126k but it's proved faultless.

If the rest of the car is as good as you say I would personally go for it as it is getting harder to find such good examples. If the worst comes to it then Diesel Bob can fully refurbish the Bosch VP44 for about £500 - cheaper than doing a 1.9 conversion and a LOT less hassle.

Cam wise, try and get a good look down the oil filler with a good torch before handing over the readies, you can only see a couple of cam lobes but it could give an indication of their condition.

Good luck whichever way you go, the 2.5s are a fantastic drive when running right.

Frank
 

Mike B

Registered User
I am on my second one and still an admirer but I would always be wary of a short term owner selling for a bargain price.Oh and I would have to have heated leather like mine
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Do you have a link to the car? The questions I'd be asking are whether it's been on long-life servicing and what expensive bits have been done and when (clutch, belt, pump etc). Mines on 197k at the moment and is honestly unbelievable.

Hi mate,

Apparently owned by Audi, then 2 other private owners (1 being the current)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-AUDI...d7u3zVH22jNK0BhvX%2B4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I am now the new owner! ;-)

If the pump's not gone by now then I'd suspect it's a good one. The pump problems were mostly the EDC in the top of the pump dying. I believe there was an updated version fitted to later pumps and they are generally reliable.

Most of the pump failures I've read about are around early 100k miles. I was a bit hesitant myself when I bought mine at 126k but it's proved faultless.

If the rest of the car is as good as you say I would personally go for it as it is getting harder to find such good examples. If the worst comes to it then Diesel Bob can fully refurbish the Bosch VP44 for about £500 - cheaper than doing a 1.9 conversion and a LOT less hassle.

Cam wise, try and get a good look down the oil filler with a good torch before handing over the readies, you can only see a couple of cam lobes but it could give an indication of their condition.

Good luck whichever way you go, the 2.5s are a fantastic drive when running right.

Frank

Thank you Frank,

I am going to go for it as even if the cams are a bit worn, by the time I get it back and do all the extra little mods I want to it, the cams will be upgraded anyway!! I foresaw this even when contemplating the PD130 as I have heard they are a common fault!

You can see by the link the car is in good condition, a few issues like the door handle, reverse sensor and a few scratches and bumps but nothing that can't be sorted with a bit of time and money well spent!! but it is a great price if you ask me!

Any feedback would be appreciated from guys with the 2.5 for things to look out for as I have to collect it this week and want to make sure I have a clear image of what could be at fault or just on the verge, but at this price, why should I be worried? right? going to spend a fortune on it anyway! :)

Thanks again guys, much appreciated!
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Oh, and he's had it 10 years so ticking all the boxes one by one!
 

AlexGSi2000

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
If you got the car for the price on the listing (£1500) then I would say it was a pretty fair price, as you would easily get that back if you sold the car in parts. - Colour DIS is very rare.

If I could go back and do it all again, I wouldnt have bought the 2.5, maybe its just bad luck but this engine has tried catching me out on a number of occasions (cams, seized waterpump.etc).

Parts can be expensive, dread to think how much I have thrown at mine - was a borderline descision to break/fix the car the last time it needed a few hundred quid.
If the car tried asking me for £500 in parts again all of a sudden I would more than likely strip it.
£1200 on a camshaft kit was a hard pill to swallow three months after buying mine.

Dont forget, these cars may be getting cheap, but the parts are still premium;
- Suspension arm kit, decent brand your talking £400
- Camshafts & top end components £900 before fitting.

That said, they are well put together, I have had to learn how to do a lot on this engine as I could not afford to have a mechanic do the work - they do come apart very well!
 

swarcup

Registered User
ive had mine 6.5 years, i bought it with 111k on and its going for sale soon at 167k, all i have done is a clutch and flywheel for £750 all in aswell as cam belts and servicing. Have loved driving it and am glad i chose the 2.5. Good look it looks ok but as alex says parts are a premium money.
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
If you got the car for the price on the listing (£1500) then I would say it was a pretty fair price, as you would easily get that back if you sold the car in parts. - Colour DIS is very rare.

If I could go back and do it all again, I wouldnt have bought the 2.5, maybe its just bad luck but this engine has tried catching me out on a number of occasions (cams, seized waterpump.etc).

Parts can be expensive, dread to think how much I have thrown at mine - was a borderline descision to break/fix the car the last time it needed a few hundred quid.
If the car tried asking me for £500 in parts again all of a sudden I would more than likely strip it.
£1200 on a camshaft kit was a hard pill to swallow three months after buying mine.

Dont forget, these cars may be getting cheap, but the parts are still premium;
- Suspension arm kit, decent brand your talking £400
- Camshafts & top end components £900 before fitting.

That said, they are well put together, I have had to learn how to do a lot on this engine as I could not afford to have a mechanic do the work - they do come apart very well!

Thanks for the feedback mate, much appreciated and I can appreciate that parts may get out of hand but all the work will be done by myself under the heavy scrutiny of my mate who is also my mechanic so ... big smiles!

I'd like to ask though, I can see in you signature that you have the 2.5 but remapped to 219bhp, how is this possible as the pump is near on maxed out at 180bhp (from my understanding, some say 210 MAX!!), can you enlighten me as I would like similar figures through an economy map if this is possible?

Cheers
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
ive had mine 6.5 years, i bought it with 111k on and its going for sale soon at 167k, all i have done is a clutch and flywheel for £750 all in aswell as cam belts and servicing. Have loved driving it and am glad i chose the 2.5. Good look it looks ok but as alex says parts are a premium money.

Nice, I can see what they mean by expensive lol! but in all honesty, £750 for clutch, flywheel and labour, not bad I would say, no?

Cheers for the feedback mate, much appreciated!
 

frankc

Registered User
There was a boy on ASN a while back running an A6 quattro 2.5 who modded it to around the 280-300 mark. That was hybrid turbo, bosio race nozzles, turbo back exhaust etc.

Think in standard guise you'll struggle to map them much above 220 but they are capable of a lot more. The A6 was sold to Chris (Adamss24 on here) who knows the 2.5 inside out.

Mine has a PSI tuning box on it which is apparently good for 210. Only found it by chance when doing some tinkering. Wouldn't know if it makes any difference as I've not taken it off to see!

Frank
 
Epic thread! That is a good read mate. I currently have a fwd 1.9 and am thinking my next Audi might be a 4wd 2.5tdi so all useful info.
Quick question regarding the cams on a 2.5tdi, what year were the cams uprated ?
 

frankc

Registered User
I believe it's late 2003 when they started fitting the roller followers to the cams. Check the engine code - 'A' series are the earlier ones and 'B' series started using the later setup.

Frank
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Well, it's been an eventful day to say the least!!

All the praise of this car in all the world did not prepare me for what I cam across!!!

WHAT A PILE OF DOOH DOOH!!!!

Firstly, photos seem to do wonders and believe it or not, the head gasket went on it "this morning" whilst trying to start it before I went to pick it up, fun and games!! Full Audi Service History, brand new MOT, booklet the size of a GCSE Schoolbag and enough smoke to bring back those Torremolinos nights! **** ****** is not the phrase I would most accommodate to right now after driving for 8 hours to get it, not even a call to tell me they had problems!! I hate time wasters!

So, I am now on the hunt for a 2002-2004 1.9tdi Avant Quattro with a shittier budget because of the £130 it has cost me to go and look at some ****'s car smoking like Snoop Dog!

Rant over!

I don't mind a bit of work to do, even a non-runner (if the price is right) but I am going to have to say that this is my first and last experience with the 2.5!
 

Darran

Registered User
On the bright side , someone is watching over you , imagine if you had bought it and the gasket went tomorrow!
 

adamss24

Registered User
You would not believe the difference a fuel pump timing issue would do to the way a v6 tdi drives ! Most cars get a bad name because the mechanics make a bad job and cannot fix properly, once you drove a good v6 then you cannot look back to a 4 pot engine ! As they say, there's no replacement for displacement !
On the v6 tdi to get 300 Bhp is just a remap, injectors and a turbo away...
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
i know mate but these days this seems to be everyone abusing motors and then selling them on as quickly as possible!

To find a good one you have to pay very very good money but that's something i don't have unfortunately.
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Right, investigating further I feel I may have jumped the gun!

Apparently the EGR valve can cause the abundance of smokiness, foul odor and loss of power, I have discussed it further with the guy as on the day I had to speed back home but then let it settle somewhat to see if it would be worth it, I was ****** to say the least on the day but what can you do? I bet anyone else in my shoes would feel the same!

I have seen on this forum that the 2.5 has an EGR problem that describes the aforementioned, is this true? I know it's a "bit of a ******" job to do but apparently, if I clean the egr and make sure the valve is functioning correctly then this issue may clear?

Some insight into this would be much appreciated as I can now get the car "cheaper", if all else fails, I'll buy a cheap 1.9 and swap the gear over to convert it to a Quattro and fill it up with all the bells and whistles!! I know that would be a big job but I have all the time in the world (self employed) and it was an idea of mine to begin with (FWD to 4WD) and I hate saying no to a bargain (Donor car)!
 

Darran

Registered User
Scan it with vcds, soon show you what faults it has, egr willl defo show up, im 40 mins from where it is so no probs if you need vcds.

I would never buy an VAG car without first scanning it!!
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Cheers Darran, much appreciated but I think I am going to take the plunge! We have discussed and it is viable as it is, cheap as chips and if it works out, well, bonus, if not, 1.9 and a hell of a lot of work to do but I will have a fully kitted Avant then, just as I want it!

If it does work out, then a fully kitted Avant I will have anyway but my experience with the 2.5 is null so worth a try all the same, it's only time and that is free when you have nothing to do (on occasions).

Will keep you all posted in a new thread!

Many thanks for the responses and guidance! :thumbs up:
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
OK, so this is getting stranger than I could imagine, the guys went and got the car for me this morning, they said it ran like a bag of spanners when they loaded it on the trailer.

They arrived this afternoon and as they unload it they had to start it to get the power steering as it was too heavy otherwise but as they started it, no smoke, no funny noises, nothing!

Don't worry, it doesn't end there!

After reversing it onto the drive it cut out, I think because he is a crap driver and didn't give it enough beans but when he restarted it, it ran like a bag of spanners again and the Goth ravers turned up to dance in the smoke!! (Just kidding but it did look like a cheap smoke machine in an illicit rave).

Plumes of the stuff, more revs (took its time to rev) and more and more smoke!!

Has me slightly baffled but I haven't had a chance to investigate, I will plug it in but I only have VCDS Lite with a cheap cable, hopefully I'd be able to see what I need to see with what I have.

Anyone else had this beautiful experience?
 

abyrne153

Registered User
Get the fault codes read and you will get an idea where to start. Also get the rocker covers off and check the cams and rockers for wear. The egr valve might be worth blanking off as they can get sticky on high mileage cars causing rough running and on the A series engines they don't throw fault codes when you blank it off.
 

sumo

Registered User
Before you start striping the cam covers off take the intake off the turbo and feel the shaft in the turbo for play.
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Here's a video to show exactly what's happening and the horrendous tractor-like sound it is currently making!



I have a feeling it's an inlet pipe or something along those lines as a similar thing happened on a van of mine and it spewed out just as much smoke, same style!
 

frankc

Registered User
That sounds like it's definitely not running on all 6 cylinders. Which would explain all the smoke as it looks like unburnt diesel.

Could be one of the cams wasn't locked properly, or at all if the belt was done on a hope-and-prey tip ex job!

Best get the covers off the front and check the timing marks as it's an interference head and will damage valves if it's too far out.

Frank
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Belt was done by Audi 40k ago, doubt they would have done a typex job?? Then again, anything is possible!

EGR Valve stuck open maybe? I'll plug it in tonight and see what it comes back with if anything at all!
 
Last edited:

frankc

Registered User
You would certainly hope not for the prices they charge. Wouldn't have thought a stuck EGR would cause it to be that bad but who knows!

Good luck, Frank
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
I am going up to the car later on this evening, will check it all out and blank the EGR Valve off completely.

I'll plug it in before and after I do this to see if there are any error codes, once I have all the info I'll post my discoveries and we can go from there!

Hopefully it won't be anything expensive!! lol!
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
You would certainly hope not for the prices they charge. Wouldn't have thought a stuck EGR would cause it to be that bad but who knows!

Good luck, Frank

Here's a video to show what an EGR can do when it's clogged (smoke-wise)



Not the same car or engine but bellows of smoke!
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
Okey dokey, a few things but the main issue:

Before blanking the EGR I couldn't rev it at all, as you can see in the video that I took earlier, revving was hard to achieve, I have now blanked the EGR valve and it revs with no issues so I guess that was part of the issue?

Errors there were only 3 which I will list when I get home.

I now have a suspicion that the turbo is blown (at least the seals anyway) as I now have oil coming out of the n/s exhaust pipe, it's not pouring out but there's a fair amount there on the floor.

So, anyone else had this issue and verified it's the turbo or does it already spell it out?
 
Last edited:

QuattroFreak

Registered User
What baffles me is it sounds like the turbo is working, winding up but then has a "rally"-ish sound when dumping (when I take my foot off the accelerator).

Could it all be just gunk build-up in the cat or exhaust?

I will post the errors when I get my baby girl to bed and get my laptop from the car.

Cheers
 

QuattroFreak

Registered User
OK, the only fault codes I have are the following:

01375 - Engine Mount
01826 - Sensor for steering
00575 - Intake Manifold Pressure

The software actually stopped on that last one saying it couldn't read any more as it's only the free version so I am guessing that the car has more issues but I cannot read them even going through the list of modules, cough up methinks!

The first 2 I can understand quite simply but because I have VCDS Lite (Shareware) then it doesn't have the explanation of which error it is, Limit not reached, Exceeded or Difference, it just asks me to cough up some money so I can see what the problem is, very clever!

I could just take the manifold off and give it a good clean, clear the codes and see if that cures it so plenty of work for me tomorrow evening!
 

Ovid

Registered User
Map sensor or and most probably you have a leak between turbo and intake manifold, somewhere your boost is escaping , could be pipes or burst intercooler, have a good look you will see gunk coming out of wherever the leak is, the MAP wont read correctly because your loosing induction pressure , also account for lack of reving and rich smokey mixture.

Where abouts are you.
 
Top