Hybrid turbo build-worth it?
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jamiebennett81
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a k03s can map to 250bhp and a K300 to 300bhp, direct bolt on and good if you already have a number of other supporting mods.
is it worth it...hmmmmm debateable. If I was going to do it all again, then I would go for the hybrid K04 or TFSI, but then when I did the work years ago, hybrids weren't that popular, but they have come a long way over the last few years.
I always prefer a hybrid turbo over something like a GT30, money is one key factor and I like an instant spooling turbo.
a K300, although only 50bhp more or so, is still a fantastic unit, but its not just about what BHP it puts out, its about the peak figures, a K300 will hold the power till the redline almost, as where a K03s will die off a lot more quickly.
is it worth it...hmmmmm debateable. If I was going to do it all again, then I would go for the hybrid K04 or TFSI, but then when I did the work years ago, hybrids weren't that popular, but they have come a long way over the last few years.
I always prefer a hybrid turbo over something like a GT30, money is one key factor and I like an instant spooling turbo.
a K300, although only 50bhp more or so, is still a fantastic unit, but its not just about what BHP it puts out, its about the peak figures, a K300 will hold the power till the redline almost, as where a K03s will die off a lot more quickly.
jamiebennett81
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ahhh, you have a K04 lol, I presumed wrong
personally I wouldn't bother then with a hybrid. I would either go BT or TFSI setup
personally I wouldn't bother then with a hybrid. I would either go BT or TFSI setup
Sorry was trying to be funny,
Still practicing.
Hybrid route seems so popular yet lots of people in the know say bt or tsfi. I dont get why so many do it if its not great.
The more i read the more confused i get. We need stage 2 vs hybrid vids!!!!
Still practicing.
Hybrid route seems so popular yet lots of people in the know say bt or tsfi. I dont get why so many do it if its not great.
The more i read the more confused i get. We need stage 2 vs hybrid vids!!!!
jamiebennett81
Registered User
yes, and its fecking mental, tried to film it on my phone but near dam impossible lol!
I didn't think his was a true hybrid though, just a standard TFSI unit
EDIT: Do you mean when he had his K04 hybrid, or his new TFSI setup?
jamiebennett81
Registered User
No, never had the chance of going in that, if it's anything like his latest power plant, then it's just silly quick!
although, still slower than mine down the 1/4 mile ha ha!
although, still slower than mine down the 1/4 mile ha ha!
Shame.
Yeh ove been in it since the new k04 064 and it is fast.
For me its not about budget. I couldnt care less.
I just want to be happy with it without going ott. Prawns new set ups to fast for me atm but with progressiob that will change.
Yeh ove been in it since the new k04 064 and it is fast.
For me its not about budget. I couldnt care less.
I just want to be happy with it without going ott. Prawns new set ups to fast for me atm but with progressiob that will change.
jamiebennett81
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his car is fast, and the added stripped out shell certainly adds to the effect also, as its just noise, a bit like mine lol.....when I actually drive the thing!
jamiebennett81
Registered User
to be honest for all the ball ache, of changing the turbo, you NEED a decent manifold, like a Relentless V4, rods also, you are looking at 2k+ easily
personally from experience, I would just stick with your OEM turbo and enjoy it mate. A STG2 K04 will still upset a lot of supposedly faster cars
personally from experience, I would just stick with your OEM turbo and enjoy it mate. A STG2 K04 will still upset a lot of supposedly faster cars
IMO, it depends what you want the car for. If its a road car, don;t bother with a hybrid, because you can never legally enjoy the extra power you have. Stage 2 is plenty for licence losing speeds as it is.
And if you have a track car, unless you want to run the hybrid de-tuned for reliability, you;d be better off with a big turbo setup. IMO, a hybrid also isn;t powerful enough on track.
Saying all of that, I'm not getting rid of mine anytime soon
And if you have a track car, unless you want to run the hybrid de-tuned for reliability, you;d be better off with a big turbo setup. IMO, a hybrid also isn;t powerful enough on track.
Saying all of that, I'm not getting rid of mine anytime soon
jamiebennett81
Registered User
I would disagree, a hybrid is perfect for a track, good power i.e. a hybrid K04 putting out 320bhp, quick spool, no lag, plenty of punch out of the corners and power is always on tap
why would you be worried about lag on track? Theres never a time where I'm below 4k rpm, and if I was, I have a gearbox to fix that.
Power isn;t always on tap though, because a hybrid is on its **** at 6500rpm, and you spend far more time up there, than you do down where you;d be worrying about spool or lag.
Don;t get me wrong, my hybrid is ballistic on track. But a BT setup is undoubtedly faster. Even a gtx28 running 350.
Plus temperatures associated with a hybrid make it completely the wrong choice on track
jamiebennett81
Registered User
I still disagree, you don't need big power to go fast, its always the squidgy bit in the seat which makes the difference, the turbo is merely a tool.
Nick Prawn proves this point perfectly, he was very quick on his hybrid K04, showing up a whole multitude of faster cars on track and still is doing so now on his TFSI setup, no BT involved, just OEM or OEM+ turbo's.
and a hybrid isn't on its *** at all at 6500rpm, the likes of a K300 or K04 hybrid are still pulling well to the redline.
I don't get the fascination with BT's (unless you want 400+), because hybrids have now come such a long way over the past few years that you can get a much better setup on a Hybrid K04 Vs a GT28rs, with faster spool and direct bolt on. Rightly so, a hybrid will suffer higher EGT's as it's being worked harder, but the amount of time I spend on a track Vs fast road driving, my personal preference is a hybrid all day long.
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Prawn doesn't use full boost on track very often... the issue with hybrids (and the TFSI's for that matter) is tuning them towards the max they will do will always bring them alot closer to the edge of reliability than using a larger framed turbo and detuning...
On the road its less of an issue as the engine won't see anywhere near the punishment it would see on a track...
If you want a reliable track setup then either use a hybrid and don't run it hard or use a turbo such as the GT28 (or GTX28 although not a massive fan of these) and it will run 350hp all day long
If you are an occasional track dayist then a hybrid will be fine and if you have switchable maps you can drop it down a peg to give you peace of mind
Having been party to a fair few track car and race car builds there is a bit more to consider than power... the 'lag' debate is also fairly questionable... having driven both std, hybrid and of course BT turbo'd cars its all down to getting to know your car... if you are in the wrong gear at the wrong time in a BT car then yeah, you will feel the lag... get it right and it will be more rewarding than a hybrid
I don't do track days, I don't really drive my car that hard (lets face it... last time I tried I broke it lol) but she drives fantastically well considering the size of the turbo...
<tuffty/>
On the road its less of an issue as the engine won't see anywhere near the punishment it would see on a track...
If you want a reliable track setup then either use a hybrid and don't run it hard or use a turbo such as the GT28 (or GTX28 although not a massive fan of these) and it will run 350hp all day long
If you are an occasional track dayist then a hybrid will be fine and if you have switchable maps you can drop it down a peg to give you peace of mind
Having been party to a fair few track car and race car builds there is a bit more to consider than power... the 'lag' debate is also fairly questionable... having driven both std, hybrid and of course BT turbo'd cars its all down to getting to know your car... if you are in the wrong gear at the wrong time in a BT car then yeah, you will feel the lag... get it right and it will be more rewarding than a hybrid
I don't do track days, I don't really drive my car that hard (lets face it... last time I tried I broke it lol) but she drives fantastically well considering the size of the turbo...
<tuffty/>
jamiebennett81
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jamiebennett81
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Oh man so many different ideas on the subject it makes my head hurtwould spending money on a big turbo set up make it faster than most things on the road/track?
not necessarily, depends how good you are on track
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hybrids and track use and their reliability will be hugely influenced by their "state of tune"
running at their max in dyno queen mode, if max power is the desire, their life will be shortened when used on circuits and track use.
Drag racing does'nt count as track use to me as its all over quickly, vs circuit track use where its sustained, and a completely different ball game. Those who circuit race know the difference.
There's a good reason I choose my own racecar to have an oversized turbo, capable of a bizillion horsepower, and use it well within its capabilities, and can run with less thermal load on the rest of the hardware, whilst having a chunk of "spare" power to deploy if the need arises. Super mario button engaged - lol
Road vs drag vs circuit - quite different applications with wide ranging Different requirements
all imho of course
running at their max in dyno queen mode, if max power is the desire, their life will be shortened when used on circuits and track use.
Drag racing does'nt count as track use to me as its all over quickly, vs circuit track use where its sustained, and a completely different ball game. Those who circuit race know the difference.
There's a good reason I choose my own racecar to have an oversized turbo, capable of a bizillion horsepower, and use it well within its capabilities, and can run with less thermal load on the rest of the hardware, whilst having a chunk of "spare" power to deploy if the need arises. Super mario button engaged - lol
Road vs drag vs circuit - quite different applications with wide ranging Different requirements
all imho of course
Some people a straight line heros but cant drive. I think you need all subjects in moderation braking handling power etc. All need to compliment each other. I just want nice power on track.
each hybrid or big turbo thread that pops up i think to myself " this will be interesting"
But all make me end up more confused lol. The joys of online forums!!!
each hybrid or big turbo thread that pops up i think to myself " this will be interesting"
But all make me end up more confused lol. The joys of online forums!!!
I'm just not sure it's worth having to have the engine rebuilt with stronger con rods than selling the car and getting something quicker with the money for the car plus the big cost for a small gain in power
Only you can decide im afraid.
I would imagine everyone has asked that exact question.
I still ask myself that everyday. Quite like the idea of an m3 csl or c4s for track. Just seems a lot of money for a toy
I would imagine everyone has asked that exact question.
I still ask myself that everyday. Quite like the idea of an m3 csl or c4s for track. Just seems a lot of money for a toy
jamiebennett81
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erm well yes...you are adding power so you will feel it, whether that justifies the extra money, as someone else has said is a decision only you can make
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bang for buck
the usual debate, modifying vs "just buy a faster car"
good luck deciding whats best for you
the usual debate, modifying vs "just buy a faster car"
good luck deciding whats best for you
As you get about 50bhp from a remap on the S3, going the next step with a hybrid setup and supporting mods is a lot of money for an extra 50bhp again (around £2500).
They way I justify it to myself though is I'm not only increasing the power, but taking a tired engine, knackered turbo etc and renewing the lot as I go, hopefully extending the life of the old girl! A new standard turbo and engine rebuild would have been on the cards before long anyway.
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Integrated Engineering rifle drilled rods (Bill @ Badger 5 can supply these)
Forge intercooler is too small for a hybrid...
<tuffty/>
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