Hybrid help

[JUS3IN]

Hey all, can I get some help, was thinking about big turbo but restraining to hybrid for now.

What will I need to go hybrid?
I know I need rods, my apy block spun two big ends crank looked OK so I threw some new bearings in and it's been fine for 3000 miles but obviously not a good idea to build it now.
soo plan on buying an agu (same 20mm rods with tanged bearings as s3 blocks) and building that, already sourced some used ie rods for 300. Does the agu have forged pistons like the s3?

I'm already at stage 2, 3 inch Downpipe, welly cooler, 3 inch tip ect.

I'm thinking fuel pump, injectors, fpr...
What else?

Will the car run safely or at all to get the remap?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Shoomakan]

Is buying used rods commonplace? I wouldn't do it, but donno if it's kosher or not.

My car had a hybrid beachbuggy turbo when I got it. As I understand, if you tune it down at the midrange slightly you'll help preserve the rods and prevent the excessive sudden torque that destroys them. There are plenty of GT28 running 1.8T's on stock rods making more than 300lb/ft that survive. I wouldn't go that far, but just to give you an idea that the rods aren't made of glass that breaks at exactly 300 as some would have you think.

I think a hybrid turbo setup is about as far as I'd go on stock rods, though. It's what I had, it's what ran well, and when we took apart the motor, it was still in perfect condition.

I'll leave the software answers to someone else. Don't know enough to help you there.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Used rods should be ok if not bent (yes, they do bend!), blued from an engine failure or have worn small ends..

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

There are plenty of GT28 running 1.8T's on stock rods making more than 300lb/ft that survive. I wouldn't go that far, but just to give you an idea that the rods aren't made of glass that breaks at exactly 300 as some would have you think.

OE rods have been known to fail at std power levels...the 300 internet hearsay value (hp ot ftlb doesn't seem to matter as it gets used for both) is just some arbitrary value which was generally unobtainable back in the day but there are too may factors that contribute to rod failure you cannot possibly put a figure on it...

Rolling torque in and creative mapping prevents premature rod failure but be under no illusion that a 1.8t's achilles heal is rods and valves... these fail... regularly...

<tuffty/>

 

[scotty_24]

Welcome to the money pit
Personally I wouldnt go anywhere without fitting rods and making sure the engine is healthy (those that know my car and the trouble its had know what I mean)

Make sure the compression is healthy on the engine before you do anything, and if its low be prepared for alot of blood sweat tears and money to get the engine healthy again.
You cant polish a **** and bolting things onto a duff engine is no good and you wont make power.

Mines got (off the top of my head)

BBT K418T (Badger5 ported hotside)
V4 manifold
3" Turbo back exhaust
Wellycooler and all forge pipework
19mm catch can system
Devils own water methanol injection duel port
Trackslag charge pipe
B5 Turbo intake pipe Jetex filter and neuspeed heatshield
Bosch 600cc injectors
CG motorsports stage 3 clutch
IE forged rifle drilled con rods and new piston rings, bores honed
Supertech exhaust valves (head restored with new stem seals etc)
DA31 inline fuel pump with Badger5 fittings
82 degree thermostat
Phonelic intake gasket

Thats just off the top of my head. Theres then all the gaskets, pick up pipe, bearings, hoses, pipes etc that go along with all this.

Managed to get me 342 bhp and 315 Badger5 torques (365lb ft)

Mine was broken in after the rebuild on actuator pressure untill it was taken to Badger5 for mapping

 

[JUS3IN]

Thanks people, that's great info. The rods done a 1000 mile apparently but whoever fitted them for the guy mis aligned the rings so it came apart again at which point the fella is now building a higher spec engine aiming for over 700bhp.
(He used to be a member on here, the guy with the leon years back who was getting bills help with setting up his avcr).
I will collect them in person and check em, how much are new ie rods from bill at the moment tufty?
Also what would I gain from going wide band anyone?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Thanks people, that's great info. The rods done a 1000 mile apparently but whoever fitted them for the guy mis aligned the rings so it came apart again at which point the fella is now building a higher spec engine aiming for over 700bhp.
(He used to be a member on here, the guy with the leon years back who was getting bills help with setting up his avcr).
I will collect them in person and check em, how much are new ie rods from bill at the moment tufty?
Also what would I gain from going wide band anyone?

http://badger5.biz/epages/3927bc2c-...-4739-96a5-d6cca869fcd6/Products/"RD144 rods"

<tuffty/>

 

[Shoomakan]

OE rods have been known to fail at std power levels...the 300 internet hearsay value (hp ot ftlb doesn't seem to matter as it gets used for both) is just some arbitrary value which was generally unobtainable back in the day but there are too may factors that contribute to rod failure you cannot possibly put a figure on it...

Rolling torque in and creative mapping prevents premature rod failure but be under no illusion that a 1.8t's achilles heal is rods and valves... these fail... regularly...

<tuffty/>

Good to know, man. Didn't know stock valves failed often if still on OEM redline. I'm a soft, smooth driver mostly and I've never really damaged anything that critical, so I always assumed it was more related to driving habits/abuse rather than OEM tolerances.

 

[JUS3IN]

Managed to get me 342 bhp and 315 Badger5 torques (365lb ftlb)

What's with the two different torque figures pal?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Good to know, man. Didn't know stock valves failed often if still on OEM redline. I'm a soft, smooth driver mostly and I've never really damaged anything that critical, so I always assumed it was more related to driving habits/abuse rather than OEM tolerances.

I never mentioned anything about the OEM redline in context to valve failure dude... conditions behind valve failure is as unpredictable and subjective as rod failure... this is how the '300' type of rumour is started

<tuffty/>

 

[scotty_24]

What's with the two different torque figures pal?

Most dynos read torque 16% more than Badger5 dyno

 

[JUS3IN]

Really? How's that? Is that a fact, what's the reason for this, optimistic tuners?

 

[badger5]

Really? How's that? Is that a fact, what's the reason for this, optimistic tuners?

debateable - lol
Welcome to Dyno Lottery

My dyno, last week bog Stock Leon Cupra 180 was 183bhp/167lbft (std factory power quoted as 132 kW (179 PS; 177 bhp) @ 5,500 rpm; 235 N·m (173 lbf·ft) @ 1,950-5,000 rpm), which is within 3% on power and 3% on torque on factory figures approx.
Other peoples dyno compared to mine seem to read some 16% more "peak torque value" compared to mine. who knows why..

Reality is mine is maybe 3% lower torque reading using a stock car as a reference but others would be some 16% higher figure than mine (so about 13% higher than std) - Its a lottery.

 

[Shoomakan]

I never mentioned anything about the OEM redline in context to valve failure dude... conditions behind valve failure is as unpredictable and subjective as rod failure... this is how the '300' type of rumour is started

<tuffty/>

Am I correct in assuming a valve failure, in most cases, leads to a broken motor?

 

[badger5]

Am I correct in assuming a valve failure, in most cases, leads to a broken motor?

Erm........ kinda yes.
from mild/lucky just bins 1 x piston and head, to deeply unlucky does piston(s), head, block, and turbine on turbo..

v.bad thing..

 

[<tuffty/>]

^^^ what he said

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=427273&page=2#27

<tuffty/>

 

[Shoomakan]

Looks like aftermarket valves are in my future, then.

Thanks guys.

 

[JUS3IN]

started speaking to people about agu block and head, been looking for fsi cranks...

is it worth going stroker on a hybrid setup?

also do s3 rods fit agu pistons if I decide against the crank??

looking forward to building it now!-)

 

[VAG-Slag]

started speaking to people about agu block and head, been looking for fsi cranks...

is it worth going stroker on a hybrid setup?

also do s3 rods fit agu pistons if I decide against the crank??

looking forward to building it now!-)

S3 rods will inded fit AGU pistons as both 20mm wrist pin

 

[superkarl]

started speaking to people about agu block and head, been looking for fsi cranks...

is it worth going stroker on a hybrid setup?

also do s3 rods fit agu pistons if I decide against the crank??

looking forward to building it now!-)

S3 rods will inded fit AGU pistons as both 20mm wrist pin

But Agu and S3 engine codes use different wrist pins, so the pins must match the Pistons. S3 pins won't fit Agu pistons etc

 

[VAG-Slag]

But Agu and S3 engine codes use different wrist pins, so the pins must match the Pistons. S3 pins won't fit Agu pistons etc

This is new news to me, wish I knew this when I had about 4 different engines I was mix and matching from! lol

Whats the difference then if they're still both 20mm?

 

[badger5]

This is new news to me, wish I knew this when I had about 4 different engines I was mix and matching from! lol

Whats the difference then if they're still both 20mm?

length

 

[<tuffty/>]

This is new news to me, wish I knew this when I had about 4 different engines I was mix and matching from! lol

Whats the difference then if they're still both 20mm?

Both 20mm but different lengths... I noted this in my build thread when I swapped to Ibiza pistons (same as AGU) here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389/page-35#post-1441208

..and a pic of the pins for context

<tuffty/>

 

[VAG-Slag]

Both 20mm but different lengths... I noted this in my build thread when I swapped to Ibiza pistons (same as AGU) here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389/page-35#post-1441208

..and a pic of the pins for context

<tuffty/>

Oh ok, so which ones are longer? . . And would it be a massive issue if you accidentally used the shorter one in place of a longer one?

I'm pretty certain I haven't done this! Just curios to know... Also, do you know if the oversize pistons also have a larger pin?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Oh ok, so which ones are longer? . . And would it be a massive issue if you accidentally used the shorter one in place of a longer one?

I'm pretty certain I haven't done this! Just curios to know... Also, do you know if the oversize pistons also have a larger pin?

S3 pins are longer

...and welly did this as well as run three S3 pistons and one AGU piston in his engine...

It will run but its not ideal

<tuffty/>