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HPI Clear cars which were written off

Arnie Jan 26, 2019

  1. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    Apologies I have not posted in a while but I have moved to BMW camp some time ago, which actually was suggested by members of this forum when I was in decision making process between my old A3 3.2 and BMW 330i:whistle2: . However I fell below should catch your attention.

    I have been involved in project which started as simple research task but it has evolved a lot over last 2 years when we discovered a lot disturbing facts about car sales in UK. The aim of the project was to link information available on salvage sites with HPI data.

    I don't want to bore you on how extremely damaged write-offs are sold with claims they had 'bumper damage' or cars which are sold with description of "no hidden history" while being unrecorded salvage.

    The most worrying fact of all it is that many "officially" written-off cars, clearly sold with damage on salvage auctions, described as write-offs with stated category are MISSING from HPI register. The worst examples are few category B cars which we have found already, being still on the road and having valid MOT and Road Tax, yet still completely clear on HPI check, when they shouldn't.

    I could bring many examples but please see one for your attention to start with:

    Currently advertised and being HPI Clear:
    https://www.evanshalshaw.com/search...ocus--manual-diesel-silver-hatchback-WV14XZZ/

    [​IMG]

    Sold as Category C via copart.co.uk:
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/21850757

    [​IMG]

    This is not isolated to single dealer, car make or location within UK. We got examples from all over the country.

    When we approached DVLA recently asking to get in touch with owners of 50 example HPI Clear cars, who are most likely totally unaware of the situation and possibly were subject to fraud, we were refused any information due to data protection laws. We explained in detail the whole issue and heard big fat NO; when at the same time all those car parking companies have no problems getting owner details to issue penalties.

    There is one car checking site which already has access to main salvage database and it helped few customers to get full refund on those HPI Clear cars from rouge traders but I am not here to advertise it. We are looking for more victims of this hole in the system where you can buy accident vehicle which is not officially recorded when it should be.

    The database which was created has just over 1.5 million salvage auctions on record and you can check it completely FREE. No strings attached, and it will tell you if your car was ever at salvage auction. Records go only until 2015 as this is when data collection started so it is not perfect but we are sure there are thousands of cars out there with hidden history. If your car appears in database you will be provided with contact form to get in touch if you feel you are one of those unaware owners.

    On positive hit the site below will tell you what were the details recorded on salvage site (year, make, model), when it was sold and what was the salvage category (Cat B/C/D/S/X or Unrecorded). Database holds more information about each vehicle but this will be released at later date.

    You can check for hidden vehicle history for FREE. Please note this is not commercial project, doesn't require any payment or registration and it was created to help everyone:

    https://www.salvagehistory.co.uk

    We are currently working with mainstream TV channel and newspaper on bringing this information to general public. I hope you understand how serious this is and please share it where you can. I will be posting same information on few car forums I am member of and please hit me with any questions you may have.

    Few more HPI Clear examples from eBay:

    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/47318638, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123579240695
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/43404288, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264116136523
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/42371836, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323633683142
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/45417357, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132901220963
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/43974808, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132907550224
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/23996628, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352558696415
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/35565628, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132909515923
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/21241955, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153327919217
    https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/49505248, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264116136635
     
    martin1984 likes this.
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  3. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    That's a bit bad if auction sites aren't listing damages, probably never going to be a way to garantee a car hasn't been in an incident as allot of people don't want this known for insurance purposes.

    Most cars I've had have been ten or so years old so I just presume they've been involved in an incident at some point and so long as they're repaired to a standard in which my eagle eyes can't tell that's fine with me but I understand how others may not trust the repair work (or lack of repair work in some cases).
     
  4. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    The problem here lies with who & how the HPi register obtain & update there information. Not the DVLA.

    IF its the insurance companies job to self report insurance write off's to HPi then the problem could also be there...

    For example, why would insurance company X tell HPi that XYZ car is a Cat D knowing full well it can be sold at salvage auction for more money if comes up as a HPi Clear.

    Im also quite sure a full paid HPi check details the current owners address (or used to?) Wouldnt even waste your time contacting the DVLA.

    Having dealt briefly with salvage vehicles in the past, there are gazillions on the road with a non recorded past. My own personal A4 is HPi clear but i know for a fact its had a new front end (bumper, grill & wing) simply by calling the name of the company on the bottom of the front number plate and asking them.

    If its being sold as HPi clear and it comes back as HPi clear then technically theres nothing anyine can do.
     
  5. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    It is insurance companies which update main database of write-offs. If they were doing it on purpose it would not make sense as any of those cars missing from register are insured again and in case they get stolen for example, insurance will have to pay full value instead of lower one in case of previous write-off. I think it is all due to manual error or some people who work there simply abuse the system and maybe later purchase those cars on their own, knowing it is not going to have HPI marker, and where is it going to be auctioned.

    Either way if some IT guys who are car enthusiasts can pull publicly available data, compare it with HPI and notice hundreds of errors it only shows there is something not right there.
     
  6. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    The problem is those salvage auction sites list all those cars as having accident, but then after they are sold there is nothing in HPI or any other car checking site.
     
  7. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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  8. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    Yes this is correct, cat C/D/S/N are total loss and the examples are total loss vehicles. This is what I am talking about. They should be on HPI but they are not.
     
  9. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    It clearly suggest on HPi's own website..... if its NOT subject to a total loss then it could appear HPi clear.

    Cat C, D, N & S are NOT total loss.

    Im not sure what part of that your not understanding?
     
  10. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    It really is in plain view...
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    You getting it all wrong ;) Cat C, D, N & S ARE total loss. You get paid full value of the car.

    https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and...insurance/written-off-or-total-loss-vehicles/

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-n...ories-explained-what-are-cat-n-and-cat-s-cars

    Insurance write-off categories at a glance
    A. Scrap
    B. Break
    S. Structurally damaged repairable
    N. Non-structurally damaged repairable
     
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  13. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    So you suggest CAT C/D/S/N are not coming up up n HPI becuse they are not total loss? That is the whole point of HPI, if car was total loss insurance write off then it will be recorded on HPI.
     
  14. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    If something is repairable its not a total loss it. Regardless of the insurance company payig out to you, the remains of the vehicle are still fine to sell on and repair thus they make some money back. Ergo, not total loss.

    FML.....

    Burnt out shell, total loss.
    Stolen never recovered, total loss.
    Needs new front end, repairable as drivable salvage NOT total loss.
     
  15. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    OMG..... Can anyone else help here?

    Those are write-off categories which are total loss. Total-loss is same as write-off.

    S. Structurally damaged repairable
    N. Non-structurally damaged repairable

    It is called repairable as this is type of total loss (not the case with cat A/B) which you can still fix and put back on the road.

    Trust me I am in this long time but you are the first who said above.

    The problem general public has firstly they trust HPI 100%, and secondly, as example here, some don't even know what write-off categories mean....
     
  16. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    I'm a developer and car enthusiast but unfortunately I don't agree with what is trying to be achieved here and don't think theirs ever going to be a way to truly know if a car has been written off or not unless we live in a Big Brother (1984) world where all cars are fitted with something to detect incidents and all roads have cameras to detect the same which is all reported to a publicly available record.
     
  17. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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  18. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    Total loss to the insurer NOT the owner/driver....
     
  19. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    If car was written-off this is official information. It goes via claim, insurance company pays off, category is assigned that's it. This is official and no questions about it..

    I just don't know how to explain this in any better way. If you have an accident and you get paid full value (total loss) car should be recorded on official register and if you do check on HPI which reads from that official register, it should tell you.

    Point of all above is for some reason some of those cars are missing from official register. Insurance company gave cat S car to salvage auction, told them it is write-off cat S, but for some reason Insurance Company did NOT tell same information to HPI and if you pay £20 you will be told this car is has never been involved in accident, when there is evidence to proof otherwise.
     
  20. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    I've never claimed on insurance and I've bought perfectly sound cars that were not damage recorded by insurance companies, I'm not slating your vision I'm just unsure what you are aiming to achieve. If insurance companies aren't declaring the status of cars they're selling I'm fairly sure that's not legal but I haven't looked into the logistics of this but again I'm just not sure what you are aiming for here.
     
  21. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    This is what I am trying to achieve, show this is NOT LEGAL but as it currently stands it accepted all over the place and nobody questioned this until our team of guys started working on it.

    Insurance companies are not selling salvage, they pass it to third parties.

    The whole point in one sentence could be: "Why when insurance company write-offs vehicle, you can buy it as Audi Approved from main dealer, described as no accident history?"

    That is the problem ^^^
     
  22. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Are you sure Audi buys written off cars from insurance companies (or writes them off themselves) then sells them as Audi Approved, that's quite a bold claim if it is true and I'm sure we would all be interested in any evidence.
     
  23. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    I am not saying Audi buys from insurance company as I got no evidence they do it themselves and I would have to work at Audi to have real info on what they do under the table but they would be crazy if they did it; but for example someone could have bought this is before and traded in, after fixing himself and. The fact is Audi relays on HPI only and per that database some cars “never had an accident” when it was not the case. Shows even big dealers can be caught up in this and be selling cars without full knowledge of what happened to them in the past.

    This is BOLD claim I know but it is backed with 2 years of work, we have evidence for sytner, evans halshaw, lookers, mercedes selling cars after accident damage which should NOT be HPI clear. I will ask our team to bring specific examples from Audi Approved from cars currently listed on for sale.
     
  24. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Yes but you just said:
    Not that people crash car's not declaring it then people or companies unknowingly or knowingly buy them and sell the cars on.
     
  25. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    Yes this is exactly what I said;) I am going into circles.

    If you trade in crash damaged vehicle which went missing from HPI Audi will sell it as Audi Approved. I am not saying Audi has bought from salvage, but I am saying someone has passed it into Audi and because Audi checks all cars via HPi or other company which is all the same data, when marker is missing, they can not know its full history.

    I will bring you Audi example if any of the above is not enough.
     
  26. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    In that case as I said you want us to live in a Big Brother world, you've posted cars over ten years old telling us these definitely haven't been crashed which is an insane belief (or maybe you were claiming the opposite, either way it is naieve to believe we can determine this one way or another) as is the idea that someone would buy and fix a car then declare it as a write off before selling.

    Really struggling to see the point you are making and now arguing against, if it's just a want for people or companies to be more honest and less profitable that's not going to happen.
     
  27. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    You missed my point completely. I brought examples of used cars which everyone thinks were NOT crashed but in fact they WERE.

    I don’t want any arguments, I only wanted people to go on free website and put the REG in to check for hidden history. I did everything to help only but if you don’t get a message I am lost for words;)
     
  28. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    People already do reg checks and check MOT history plus whatever else we can get our hands on before purchasing cars, any more tools are of course always welcome.

    We aren't missing a point when you aren't making one (or keep changing the point, again it's hard to see what you are aiming to achieve or even want and whatever it is does not seem realistic).
     
  29. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    To summarise, all the checks you do none of them include data from salvage auctions. This was my point. If something comes up as all green on all other checks not necessarily will be the case with salvage auctions check.

    I hope I made this clear now;)
     
  30. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    To summarize the thread should have said "use www.blah.com to check if a car has been on a salvage auction site" and that would have stopped our questions on your essay and conflicting points.

    I'm not sure if you have something to do with this website you are promoting but it doesn't appear to work and if the information is freely available it will either already be used by other major sites/apps/services or will be used by them in future.
     
  31. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    You still have no idea but thanks for the input.
     
    MuPPeT_ON_TouR likes this.
  32. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    What if the salvage vehicle in question had no insurance or no claim was made.....

    I sold my old B7 A4 after i was involved in a 4 car shunt on the mway & never even bothered to repair it or claim for it.

    13 months ago that was. According to DVLA it was taxed in June an is still going with a new MOT in Sept just gone.
     
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  34. A1DEYB

    A1DEYB Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen this or something very similar to this on babybmw.net.

    Some of the examples which are being sold as mint and HPI clear have been absolute wrecks prior to being ‘repaired’.

    There is a website which I believe has been created by a member on there.
     
  35. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    ^^^ it is the same person ;) I link free salvage data I can find online with HPI stuff.

    I lost faith in Audi drivers anyway, but if was buying 110k car which is Audi Approved I would like to know everything about the car. I am sure when you call up Sytner they will tell you it had side and suspension damage:salute:

    https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/9642461-1171793-audi-r8-5-2-fsi-v10-plus-quattro-2dr-s-tronic/

    [​IMG]

    Auction images:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Btw it went for 74k on auction. Full report on my site with link to original auction:
    https://www.vcheck.uk/search/SG67TGZ/
     
  36. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    Should still come up as Cat C or D though when HPI checked vs not as per the OP.

    TX.
     
    Arnie likes this.
  37. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    This car should be Cat S under HPI. It is currently all clear. You can see it on AT advert as they HPI check each vehicle:


    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201812203386518


    [​IMG]

    The real story:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    And yes some will say it is not the same car and how I am sure. Please see VIN below:

    [​IMG]



    My site will tell you straight away if and when it was auctioned as salvage:

    https://www.vcheck.uk/search/RV17HCP/


    I have thousands of cars currently listed for sale across multiple car portals. Not all are missing category from HPI, some were simply sold as salvage due to damaged and no insurance in place or due to mechanical issues.
     
  38. Arnie

    Arnie Member

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    This was was alerted to us by one of our customers. They said they could not believe it is HPI clear once they got the reg from the seller. Our site only saved his *** from buying it:

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201812083100272

    [​IMG]


    True story, should be Cat S again....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Link with alert on top:
    https://www.vcheck.uk/search/RF14TNK/



    Question is, do you still not believe me? How many do you want to see before it hits you there is a major problem and HPI Clear means nothing...? 10, 100, 1000 ? Are you really sure the car you drive has no hidden history ? My site https://www.vcheck.uk/ and https://www.salvagehistory.org will tell you for free if there was a salvage for your reg. No need to pay, register or any other ****. Just check it and don't be shocked if you find something.
     
    Tzsteve likes this.
  39. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    Maybe so.... but what if it had no insurance in the first place or no claim was made like ive already said....

    With regards to the OP harping on about not being on a HPi register, i think the issue here is how or even if at all insurance companies are informing whatever company compiles this "register".

    Although I for one am not really bothered to tell you the truth. If it comes back hpi clear but its previously been repaired i genuinely dont care.

    If it comes back hpi clear but the panel gaps are skewif, body work qeustionable then ill ask some qeustions.
     
    DieselJake likes this.
  40. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    The point is though that less savvy folk than you (most of us incl me tbf) will happily just crack on with a car purchase as long as the HPI hurdle has been cleared. Some of those people are driving around in, at best, a car worth a lot less then they paid or, at worst, a death trap.

    TX.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  41. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    Also theres nothing legally stopping an insurance company paying you out for "your loss" (loss of car) so they then take owner ship of it but then selling it "as is" themselves via copart auction.

    Because as we all know, if its hpi clear its instantly worth more ;) wether its damaged or not.
     
  42. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    C'mon Mike a Cat D car is at least 33% less than a not Cat D otherwise why are people putting them back on the road and keeping that hidden. If that wasn't the case no need to bother just declare it and get the same money anyway :innocent:

    TX.
     
  43. CarbonMike

    CarbonMike Active Member Team Brilliant Black Audi A4 Black Edition quattro

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    Maybe so, but youll never stop the cycle.

    Same as massively overpriced houses, mobile phones blah blah. Some one will always pay what they think its worth.

    Death trap is a little extreme i think. We're not quite talking cut & shuts here. Panel damage, suspension damage, whole front end etc. Mostly nuts & bolts stuff. Every single piece of a monocoque chasis is designed as replaceable.

    If they wernt, the manufacturers wouldnt sell the individual panels would they.

    Granted theres alot of diyers that fix salvage, so due diligence is always king, but youll never stop the cycle...
     

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