how many people are Stage 2 with down pipe and intercooler
- Thread starter DAZMC
- Start date
Hopefully be able to tell you next week.
It's not just the power figures but where it occurs which is to give more mid range and also the down pipe helps the turbo to spool up quicker for improved throttle response.
Edit: ah not going inter cooler route just yet.
It's not just the power figures but where it occurs which is to give more mid range and also the down pipe helps the turbo to spool up quicker for improved throttle response.
Edit: ah not going inter cooler route just yet.
Dandanfings
Registered User
Dan, are you not impressed with the stage 2 software more so than upgrading to stage 2 (DP) from your reviews on stage 1 with BCS downpipe I thought there was significant gains especially in torque and response?
I'm mainly looking at stage 2 for that reason better throttle response and low end torque for daily driving conditions.
I'll wait til APR get stage 2 tune right and with higher torque for us with dsg software. Who knows when that will be? Prob mid 2016!
Looking at US APR site seems decent gains stage 2 in low rpm. (Torque) From 1700-2700 range was 25% gains over stock where stage 1 basically same as stock until 2500rpm. Seems to bring torque in 400 rpm sooner (faster turbo spool)
Obviously not huge gains overall but it's more about widening the torque band and pulling harder to red line.
Plus getting turbo sounds (intake) and nicer exhaust note.
I'm mainly looking at stage 2 for that reason better throttle response and low end torque for daily driving conditions.
I'll wait til APR get stage 2 tune right and with higher torque for us with dsg software. Who knows when that will be? Prob mid 2016!
Looking at US APR site seems decent gains stage 2 in low rpm. (Torque) From 1700-2700 range was 25% gains over stock where stage 1 basically same as stock until 2500rpm. Seems to bring torque in 400 rpm sooner (faster turbo spool)
Obviously not huge gains overall but it's more about widening the torque band and pulling harder to red line.
Plus getting turbo sounds (intake) and nicer exhaust note.
Dandanfings
Registered User
Car felt sharper with stage 1 and downpipe, smoother with stage 2.
The cost involved going from stage 1 just isn't worth it and I would save my money.
I was led to believe there is plenty of fueling for well over 450bhp so there is no need for a fuel pump upgrade.
Here is best dyno comparison to go off. It's US spec. I'm mainly looking at it for that improved low end, response.
I'm waiting and expect they will release tune with higher torque as it says torque limited for stock dsg. So now TCU out they should work on tune taking more advantage of hardware for people with tcu tune.
Still no stage 2 ROW engine yet, obviously taking considerable time to get it right. Since stage 1 last dec! Might take 12 months before stage 2 ready!
Dandanfings
Registered User
Here is best dyno comparison to go off. It's US spec. I'm mainly looking at it for that improved low end, response.
I'm waiting and expect they will release tune with higher torque as it says torque limited for stock dsg. So now TCU out they should work on tune taking more advantage of hardware for people with tcu tune.
Still no stage 2 ROW engine yet, obviously taking considerable time to get it right. Since stage 1 last dec! Might take 12 months before stage 2 ready!
I keep hearing this increased torque map but I have heard directly from the horses mouth that is nothing else to be had torque wise?
Getting my car checked over tomorrow by APR along with a dynorun to see how the stage 2 row map is holding up.
Dan, Here is decription from them saying torque limited to prevent clutch slippage. I thought once TCU tune out they would unlock more torque from the intake/DP hardware. As UM and Unicorn both have 400+ on stage 1. I thought stage 2 good for 400+.
Time will tell though. I'd guess our ROW close enough to the 400/400 combo anyway. I hope your tune running well now and look forward to seeing your dyno results.
APR’s Stage II ECU Upgrade intentionally limits peak torque in an effort to avoid factory clutch slip. As such, 93 octane Stage I and II ECU Upgrades make nearly the same midrange torque but differ in peak power. Also, due to reduced boost pressure, APR was to achieve similar torque figures with 91 and 93 octane. Reaching MBT on 93 octane negated the need for higher-octane software. For those looking for more modest gains, lower torque, and to further avoid clutch slip should the high output software offer too much, APR’s Stage 2 lower output software is available. The low output software offers nearly the same peak power and quicker spool, but with less midrange torque.
Time will tell though. I'd guess our ROW close enough to the 400/400 combo anyway. I hope your tune running well now and look forward to seeing your dyno results.
APR’s Stage II ECU Upgrade intentionally limits peak torque in an effort to avoid factory clutch slip. As such, 93 octane Stage I and II ECU Upgrades make nearly the same midrange torque but differ in peak power. Also, due to reduced boost pressure, APR was to achieve similar torque figures with 91 and 93 octane. Reaching MBT on 93 octane negated the need for higher-octane software. For those looking for more modest gains, lower torque, and to further avoid clutch slip should the high output software offer too much, APR’s Stage 2 lower output software is available. The low output software offers nearly the same peak power and quicker spool, but with less midrange torque.
Dandanfings
Registered User
Interesting
That backs up the feeling I get since getting stage 2!
Hopefully during my visit they can unlock that midrange.
That backs up the feeling I get since getting stage 2!
Hopefully during my visit they can unlock that midrange.
Dandanfings
Registered User
That was just showing the US version for example of expected gains .
The ROW tune not released yet. With better fuelling set up stage 1 ROW had 28hp more than US spec!
There will be specific tune for UK/aust ROW engine soon enough. Obviously some minor issues still needing sorting out.
Should be around 400hp and 400lbs. Obviously know in due course.
The ROW tune not released yet. With better fuelling set up stage 1 ROW had 28hp more than US spec!
There will be specific tune for UK/aust ROW engine soon enough. Obviously some minor issues still needing sorting out.
Should be around 400hp and 400lbs. Obviously know in due course.
Dandanfings
Registered User
They did, Evan has now left which is a shame as he was a nice guy.
British spec make a chunk more power so yeah 400bhp+ is what I expect too
I thought APR Stage 2 ROW was already released? I just got it flashed
https://www.goapr.com/news/2015/08/06/apr-stage-ii-golf-r-s3-cupra-released-for-the-row-market/
https://www.goapr.com/news/2015/08/06/apr-stage-ii-golf-r-s3-cupra-released-for-the-row-market/
Dandanfings
Registered User
that is bizarre as i have been told its not, the file i have is v1.0 which is usually a beta.....
Dandanfings
Registered User
Spent 8 hours with the Apr guys.
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.
They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.
Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!
I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.
They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.
Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!
I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler
Attachments
I have to say I'm quite surprised with the support you got from APR, I'm guessing you're basically running a new Beta of the Stage 2 file now? I found the Stage 2 file felt less aggressive than Stage 1. Is it still like that or does it just feel like a quicker version of Stage 1? I've heard good things about the Wagner intercooler but apparently it's not a direct fit on the S3 and is quite a mission to install.Spent 8 hours with the Apr guys.
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.
They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.
Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!
I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler
Spent 8 hours with the Apr guys.
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.
They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.
Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!
I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler
Dan, that's fantastic news. Sounds perfect to me! Can't wait to go stage 2. I'm not overly concerned about top end numbers so this low end huge torque, fast turbo spool exactly what I was wanting.
Dandanfings
Registered User
Yeo exactly my thoughts it was less aggressive, now it's more aggressive
Heard about the intercooler issues so I'm just waiting for a better product to become available and am now seriously considering a hybrid turbo.
I cannot wait for a solid stg2 map for the newer ecu.
I won't bother with stg1, I'm going straight for vwr600, downpipe and a stg2 map.
It's pretty cold in plymouth .out of the time so I won't bother with a cooler either.
I won't bother with stg1, I'm going straight for vwr600, downpipe and a stg2 map.
It's pretty cold in plymouth .out of the time so I won't bother with a cooler either.
Forge intercoolerSpent 8 hours with the Apr guys.
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.
They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.
Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!
I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler
Dandanfings
Registered User
Dandanfings
Registered User
Just seems a insane amount of money for a piece of alloy.
I used to know a intercooler factory in Taiwan, could get anything made but obviously at that time I didn't have a car for it.
They had this amazing cnc machined cooler which had one piece fins with teeth... Supposedly super efficient and no welds in sight.
Never saw it released though.
There's the Unitronic intercooler, apparently it's full bolt on with no modifications needed. The only problem is that I can't find a single review of it.
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To be fair, this would be the going price for a decent intercooler.
The Proalloy and others for the 8P are about this and cheaper ones are often cast alloy with rubbish end tanks.
