Facelift How do I make my S-Tronic start-stop chill the hell out?

audigex

Registered User
I've just swapped my manual A3 for an S-Tronic, and the start stop is... a little overzealous for my taste.

I don't want to turn it off entirely if I can avoid it, but it's so sensitive that it's cutting out even as I pull up to park and am still rolling, cutting my steering power right as I'm correcting the steering angle to line up with the kerb. It also feels pretty stupid when I'm easing into a space and look like I've just stalled 4 times... it starts again quickly enough most of the time, but I'm really not comfortable with the steering for that last couple of seconds - a nuance of the way I park outside my house is that the last couple of yards are at an angle and I need to adapt.

Is there any way to make the start stop chill the **** out? In the manual I'd just keep the clutch down whenever I wasn't intending to stop for long enough to be worth the start stop kicking in, but obviously an S-Tronic doesn't have that ability. Can I turn down the sensitivity or is there a trick to avoiding it kicking in other than turning it off before parking? Or if not, how do I turn the damn thing off permanently? Is it any less aggressive in dynamic or sport or similar?
 

seanbeckerleg

Registered User
I've just swapped my manual A3 for an S-Tronic, and the start stop is... a little overzealous for my taste.

I don't want to turn it off entirely if I can avoid it, but it's so sensitive that it's cutting out even as I pull up to park and am still rolling, cutting my steering power right as I'm correcting the steering angle to line up with the kerb. It also feels pretty stupid when I'm easing into a space and look like I've just stalled 4 times... it starts again quickly enough most of the time, but I'm really not comfortable with the steering for that last couple of seconds - a nuance of the way I park outside my house is that the last couple of yards are at an angle and I need to adapt.

Is there any way to make the start stop chill the **** out? In the manual I'd just keep the clutch down whenever I wasn't intending to stop for long enough to be worth the start stop kicking in, but obviously an S-Tronic doesn't have that ability. Can I turn down the sensitivity or is there a trick to avoiding it kicking in other than turning it off before parking? Or if not, how do I turn the damn thing off permanently? Is it any less aggressive in dynamic or sport or similar?
As far as I'm aware, S mode stops it from cutting out?

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong
 

TDI-line

Uber Post Whore
This is one of my pet hates, and turn this off every time i drive, and lower the sat nav screen too.

SS1.jpg
 

RAF_S7

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
S mode does stop start/stop engaging (at least on my S7).

But more to the point, it shouldn't engage unless the car has actually stopped and you have your foot hard on the brake (and all other parameters are met)

On the S7 you can brake "softly" and come to a halt with gentle pressure on the footbrake and it will sit there idling, unless you then push hard on the brake, at which point start stop kicks in.

If it's not behaving as it should, ld book a dealer visit, on safety grounds alone!
 

Vertigo1

Registered User
Yeah I've heard that feathering the brake pedal so you release the pressure just as you come to a halt stops it triggering but don't know for sure.

It shouldn't be kicking in if the car is still moving though!
 

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
@DJAlix will sell you a little plug in device he's developed that might help you. Start stop sucks balls though, especially in the S&Tonic cars where the implementation is awful.
 

GTAIVgunner

Registered User
I've noticed that in my manual A3 if I'm in neutral and my foot is off the clutch, start/stop cuts in at about 3mph. It locks the steering as mentioned and sometimes stops the wipers. I sometimes go into neutral before I've actually stopped :grimacing:
 

paradigital

Registered User
Yeah I've heard that feathering the brake pedal so you release the pressure just as you come to a halt stops it triggering but don't know for sure.

It shouldn't be kicking in if the car is still moving though!

It does indeed stop triggering by feathering the brake pedal, however 9 times out of 10 the reason you want start/stop to not kick in is because you are wanting a quick pull-off (junction, roundabout, etc) and therefore it's more sensible to just knock to "S" when approaching the junction/roundabout.
 

audigex

Registered User
Thanks, I'll try S mode next time: although I suspect I need to get it looked into, I don't want to have to switch modes every time I slow down, and stopping in Sport mode seems counter intuitive :p I do often switch to sport for junctions, but parking isn't quite the same.

I'm definitely slightly concerned about it - I'm entirely certain that the car is still rolling when the S/S kicks in: not fast, but definitely moving: more than once I've felt the wheel tension of the engine stopping, and then the engine starts again as I try to steer with a clear and noticeable delay between me turning the wheel and getting the input I want: I'm not happy about it cutting out while moving.

I'll call Audi tomorrow, but if they can't do something about it I'm tempted to reject the car. I know it's only something like 4mph, but I want to be damn sure my car will react instantly when I turn the wheel, it's really not a comfortable feeling. I can deal with looking like an idiot when people think I've stalled, but my steering working is important to me...

GTAIVGunner - it definitely wasn't a thing on the 8P manual, at least on the 2.0TDI, but the start stop is noticeably less responsive on that car. On this one, though, it drops in and out very quickly. If I'm nudging forward in a parking space it will cut out two or three times as I apply and release brake pressure to creep forward
 

audigex

Registered User
I'm assuming from the fact people talk about turning it off each time they get in the car, then, that there's no way to switch it off permanantly?
 

cuke2u

Registered User

paradigital

Registered User
I'm assuming from the fact people talk about turning it off each time they get in the car, then, that there's no way to switch it off permanantly?

Not as standard, no. I do recall a plug in module that has a switch state memory, plugs in between the start/stop button and the wiring loom and remembers the last state of the button, even through ignition cycles.

I'm sure someone will be along with a product name and/or link shortly.
 

-Ju-

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
I find easing off the brakes as it comes to a stop keeps the engine running just fine.
It's pretty irrelevant on mine now though as the stop start hardly ever works.
 

S15THM

Navarra S3 Saloon
It's not a fault with your car as mine does it too, and yes it can be quite annoying, especially if you're waiting to pull into a junction just as a car is about to pass and boom, your steering dies. I've just put it down to one of those little niggles the car has. Yep it annoys the ****** hell out me but it doesn't bother me overly that much.
 

Audi Bairn

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Staff member
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As mentioned it does activate prior to coming to a stand still, this is "normal" albeit very annoying / off putting.
Doesn't do it on mine though, i switch the ****** thing off as part of my start up routine every time - hate it with a passion in S Tronic and manual cars.
 
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audigex

Registered User
I don't mind start-stop in general, it can be quite nice in traffic... but I live in a town where there's virtually never any start-stop traffic, and I hate the way it turns off when moving.

It's a shame it doesn't remember the state when the ignition is off, that would solve the problem quickly enough. I guess I'll see if the dealer can do anything
 

RichardT

Registered User
I don't mind start-stop in general, it can be quite nice in traffic... but I live in a town where there's virtually never any start-stop traffic, and I hate the way it turns off when moving.

It's a shame it doesn't remember the state when the ignition is off, that would solve the problem quickly enough. I guess I'll see if the dealer can do anything
I can definitely say that my S/S will not kick in until my car has been stationary for a second with definite pressure on the brake. I can roll to a halt and if VERY careful to feather the brake the hold assist will not kick in, but generally it does. But now I am used to it I can pretty well control the S/S at will by careful use of the brake. I must say I quite like it in traffic. If necessary you can turn it off by either flipping into s-mode or just pressing the switch - both equally easy. I did this all the time when I first had the car, but now I have the drop on the brake control, it's rarely necessary. Although I do use S sometimes when coming up to a situation (eg roundabout) when I want a bit fadter response.

They will never enable permanent turn off of S/S because it's part of the emissions control (thouth I doubt it has more that very marginal effect, except when in very stationary traffic.
 

audigex

Registered User
I've turned my S/S off in the manual A3, for example on a hot day when I was fed up of it dithering about whether it wanted to be on or off

The problem is that there's no way I'm going to remember to turn it off or switch to Sport every time I arrive home: parking my car at home involves parking just after a junction, so I basically approach at a reasonable speed (10-15mph) at a slight angle to the kerb. That's all absolutely fine, but it just happens to mean that I'm pointed slightly toward the kerb by the time I hit 3-5mph and the S/S decides to shut off JUST as I want to straighten the car.

I guess over time I'll probably adjust how I approach to park, but I've got a nasty feeling I'm going to misjudge it in the meantime and clout a wheel.

I suppose the alternative is to just drive everywhere in sport mode, but it's noticeably less comfortable when I really do just want to dither around town and save fuel.

It's just a shame I can't set S/S as part of Drive Select.
 

Mario

Registered User
It is correct that the start/stop kicks in before the car actually stops. All A4's with the stronic does this...

Our B8.5 A4 S-Tronic doesn't do this. S/S will only kick in when the car has come to a total standstill (as it should, anything else is a safety issue that I'm sure VOSA would love to hear about), and to be honest our one seems like it doesn't want to do S/S a lot of the time and will keep the engine running. When S/S does kick in, if the traffic is bad the engine will fire back up on it's own accord while still stationary, presumably to prevent excessive battery drain.

If the OP's one is doing as they have described then I would get it booked into the dealer ASAP. Engine stopping and losing steering while the cars is moving (even at 1 MPH) is a safety issue and there's no way that a system intentionally designed to do that would be allowed to be Type Approved in the UK. As such, something has to be wrong and I would be arguing safety grounds with the dealer, otherwise, rejecting the car.
 

RichardT

Registered User
Our B8.5 A4 S-Tronic doesn't do this. S/S will only kick in when the car has come to a total standstill (as it should, anything else is a safety issue that I'm sure VOSA would love to hear about), and to be honest our one seems like it doesn't want to do S/S a lot of the time and will keep the engine running. When S/S does kick in, if the traffic is bad the engine will fire back up on it's own accord while still stationary, presumably to prevent excessive battery drain.

If the OP's one is doing as they have described then I would get it booked into the dealer ASAP. Engine stopping and losing steering while the cars is moving (even at 1 MPH) is a safety issue and there's no way that a system intentionally designed to do that would be allowed to be Type Approved in the UK. As such, something has to be wrong and I would be arguing safety grounds with the dealer, otherwise, rejecting the car.

Absolutely agree.
 

allanmb

Registered User
My old A4 would only S/S when fully stood still. The S3 will happily kick in if coming to a stop but still moving. You can avoid it if you have a very light brake foot.

The easiest method to avoid S/S, I've found, is to knock the Gear Lever over to the left as you are coming to a stop. This puts it into semi-manual mode and S/S doesn't kick in when doing this.
 

Audi Bairn

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Engine stopping and losing steering while the cars is moving (even at 1 MPH) is a safety issue and there's no way that a system intentionally designed to do that
It is though. It's like that on the newer cars. Our A5, S5, TT Mk2, A4 all new cars in the last 7 years didn't cut out until a complete stop but the new cars do. I'm not saying I agree with it or like it but it is designed to do it.
 

mikemod

Registered User
My old A4 would only S/S when fully stood still. The S3 will happily kick in if coming to a stop but still moving. You can avoid it if you have a very light brake foot.

The easiest method to avoid S/S, I've found, is to knock the Gear Lever over to the left as you are coming to a stop. This puts it into semi-manual mode and S/S doesn't kick in when doing this.

Same as me, just second nature now, coming up to junctions and roundabouts, slip the lever across to manual and then when moving again back to Auto.

Mine will also stop when still rolling slowly as you suddenly notice the steering getting heavier.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
I'm assuming from the fact people talk about turning it off each time they get in the car, then, that there's no way to switch it off permanantly?
It can be turned off permanently using VCDS. It just needs one value changing. I have done it on my last three A3s and it works fine.

If you look at #429 in the VCDS Mods thread it gives you the details, which are:

1. Module 19 (Can Gateway)
2. Adaption (10)
3. Go to channel: Start_stop_voltage_limit
4. Change value to 12.1V ( default is 7.6V)
 

Vertigo1

Registered User
It does indeed stop triggering by feathering the brake pedal, however 9 times out of 10 the reason you want start/stop to not kick in is because you are wanting a quick pull-off (junction, roundabout, etc) and therefore it's more sensible to just knock to "S" when approaching the junction/roundabout.

I'm curious how the feathering works in concert with the Hold Assist. Presumably you have to come to a complete halt before this triggers but whether you can feather the brake pedal such that the assist triggers but the start/stop doesn't...
 

larbel

Registered User
It can be turned off permanently using VCDS. It just needs one value changing. I have done it on my last three A3s and it works fine.

If you look at #429 in the VCDS Mods thread it gives you the details, which are:

1. Module 19 (Can Gateway)
2. Adaption (10)
3. Go to channel: Start_stop_voltage_limit
4. Change value to 12.1V ( default is 7.6V)

That coding doesn't work on FL as far as I know, but S/S cutting in while coming to a stop still rolling is a safety hazard! You can't brake effectively if something crazy come up!! Mine would only cut in maybe half a sec after complete stop, but I have AC on low majority of the time so S/S is usually disabled... I'd definitely have it looked at...
 

Bitzieee

Registered User
When they develop the cars they need to implement stop/start to keep the prices lower for you guys, in terms of efficiency and emissions and keep up with competitors.

When they register the 'official' stats for the car in terms of mpg, emissions ect it is done with the stop start enabled, therefore the car has to be programmed to turn on with the function enabled, every single time, or they don't hit those markers, meaning they cant publish them 'officially'
 

allanmb

Registered User
That coding doesn't work on FL as far as I know, but S/S cutting in while coming to a stop still rolling is a safety hazard! You can't brake effectively if something crazy come up!! Mine would only cut in maybe half a sec after complete stop, but I have AC on low majority of the time so S/S is usually disabled... I'd definitely have it looked at...

The brakes still work fine - the steering doesn't but you are coming to a stop so steering won't do much anyway. The S/S only kicks in if you are pressing the brake and doing around 2mph so it's not like it is kicking in when you are going to be covering much ground...
 

Mario

Registered User
It is though. It's like that on the newer cars. Our A5, S5, TT Mk2, A4 all new cars in the last 7 years didn't cut out until a complete stop but the new cars do. I'm not saying I agree with it or like it but it is designed to do it.

You missed the next part of what I wrote in your quote which is what is important....there is no way a system that does it intentionally would gain Type Approval in the UK.

If all of your cars do that then I would love to hear what VOSA have to say on the matter, sounds like another VW scandal to me and I am fairly confident VOSA would force a recall / software update to fix the "issue" should someone bring it to their attention.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I use start/stop all of the time and I barely notice it and there is no safety issue what so ever that impedes my ability to drive the car. If I wish to drive more briskly without start/stop then I just pull back on the gear lever to impliment sport which disables it.
Why don't ypu contact Vospa Mario, I am sure, because of the number of Audi models, that they already know about this system. However, seeing as it is fitted worldwide, you seem to be the only one who thinks it's a safety issue..
 

allanmb

Registered User
there is no way a system that does it intentionally would gain Type Approval in the UK.

Why? It only happens when the car is obviously approaching a standstill and at very low speed. It is annoying, don't get me wrong, but I fail to see why it poses any risk.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
I use start/stop all of the time and I barely notice it and there is no safety issue what so ever that impedes my ability to drive the car. If I wish to drive more briskly without start/stop then I just pull back on the gear lever to impliment sport which disables it.
Why don't ypu contact Vospa Mario, I am sure, because of the number of Audi models, that they already know about this system. However, seeing as it is fitted worldwide, you seem to be the only one who thinks it's a safety issue..
He is not the only only one. I hate it hence I have it disabled.
 

Mario

Registered User
I use start/stop all of the time and I barely notice it and there is no safety issue what so ever that impedes my ability to drive the car. If I wish to drive more briskly without start/stop then I just pull back on the gear lever to impliment sport which disables it.
Why don't ypu contact Vospa Mario, I am sure, because of the number of Audi models, that they already know about this system. However, seeing as it is fitted worldwide, you seem to be the only one who thinks it's a safety issue..

To be honest, my car doesn't do it, so I'm not going to waste my time contacting anyone. However a car where you lose steering feel at ANY speed is a hazard. Like it or not, there is a potential for something to go wrong there, and hence I said VOSA would love to know about that, because they are very, very strict on these matters.

World wide doesn't matter. There's lot of features on cars that are legal in the US, Europe, Middle East, etc that are not legal here and vice versa, hence different regions get different things.

Just because it is fitted world wide it doesn't mean it's not a software issue that needs addressing. How many servers world wide run on Microsoft Windows....how many updates are constantly release each month to fix issues that were not picked up at release....?? Just because something is sold world wide and used world wide that doesn't mean it is perfect and infallible.

Oh, and you are sure they know about this issue....you mean just like they knew about the Diesel software to cheat emissions....you know, because there are so many Audi's around that they have to know every single line of coding in all the ECU's ;)

Why? It only happens when the car is obviously approaching a standstill and at very low speed. It is annoying, don't get me wrong, but I fail to see why it poses any risk.

Why? Well this user has said it locks their steering and cuts their wipers while the car is still moving (albeit slowly).

It locks the steering as mentioned and sometimes stops the wipers.

That not safe. How can someone seriously believe that having your steering lock and your wipers stop (in what could torrential bouncing off the ground rain) be safe when the car is still moving? A 1500kg car rolling at 2-3 MPH has a lot of energy behind it, and you have to remember, these things have to be designed for the old, weak and stupid to use just like everyone else.

Like I said, I'm sure VOSA would love to hear about it, but as my car doesn't have this "quirk" or "feature" I for one am not spending my time letting them know about it.
 

jungle650

Registered User
@DJAlix will sell you a little plug in device he's developed that might help you. Start stop sucks balls though, especially in the S&Tonic cars where the implementation is awful.

Whilst a VCDS mod is available for most cars which will disable the start stop. You will continue to get an annoying symbol on the dash. The modules mentioned above and sinilar units recognise and memorise the last function. Giving the best of both worlds, disabling when required and allowing you to use the function as and when YOU want to. All without any error messages. Quick and easy to install. Would highly recommend @DJAlix

Jungle
 

cuke2u

Registered User
To be honest, my car doesn't do it, so I'm not going to waste my time contacting anyone. However a car where you lose steering feel at ANY speed is a hazard. Like it or not, there is a potential for something to go wrong there, and hence I said VOSA would love to know about that, because they are very, very strict on these matters.

World wide doesn't matter. There's lot of features on cars that are legal in the US, Europe, Middle East, etc that are not legal here and vice versa, hence different regions get different things.

Just because it is fitted world wide it doesn't mean it's not a software issue that needs addressing. How many servers world wide run on Microsoft Windows....how many updates are constantly release each month to fix issues that were not picked up at release....?? Just because something is sold world wide and used world wide that doesn't mean it is perfect and infallible.

Oh, and you are sure they know about this issue....you mean just like they knew about the Diesel software to cheat emissions....you know, because there are so many Audi's around that they have to know every single line of coding in all the ECU's ;)



Why? Well this user has said it locks their steering and cuts their wipers while the car is still moving (albeit slowly).



That not safe. How can someone seriously believe that having your steering lock and your wipers stop (in what could torrential bouncing off the ground rain) be safe when the car is still moving? A 1500kg car rolling at 2-3 MPH has a lot of energy behind it, and you have to remember, these things have to be designed for the old, weak and stupid to use just like everyone else.

Like I said, I'm sure VOSA would love to hear about it, but as my car doesn't have this "quirk" or "feature" I for one am not spending my time letting them know about it.
Wipers that stop, steering that lock, what on earth are you talking about, when my engine stops before coming to a halt none of these things happen. The ignition is still live and the steering is operated by electric motors. As this system has been homologated in every county it is sold I rather think, and with respect, you are on a hiding to nowhere..
 

Mario

Registered User
Wipers that stop, steering that lock, what on earth are you talking about, when my engine stops before coming to a halt none of these things happen. The ignition is still live and the steering is operated by electric motors. As this system has been homologated in every county it is sold I rather think, and with respect, you are on a hiding to nowhere..

Did you even read my quote of GTAIVgunner?? He said these things happen, NOT me!

With respect...read what people write before responding :p
 

Audi Bairn

Moderator
Staff member
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Gold Supporter
You missed the next part of what I wrote in your quote which is what is important....there is no way a system that does it intentionally would gain Type Approval in the UK.

If all of your cars do that then I would love to hear what VOSA have to say on the matter, sounds like another VW scandal to me and I am fairly confident VOSA would force a recall / software update to fix the "issue" should someone bring it to their attention.

To be fair, I didn't miss it.

My points are:
It does do it intentionally.
It's present in the UK, therefore reasonable to assume it's been approved (?) unless someone can show otherwise.
All of our cars (after a certain point in time) do do it.

As I say I don't like it but it doesn't appear to be a fault as such.
 
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