Hill Hold Assist Question

[veeeight]

As far as I'm concerned there are far too many Assists on an Audi.

Hill Assist
Hold Assist
Park Assist
Side Assist
Steer Assist
High Bream Assist
Light Assist
Seat Assist
RAC Assist
Drive Assist
Stop Assist
Go Assist
I can't be bothered to drive my car properly anymore Assist

 

[Blackwhite]

I agree. Pretty soon we will have a bathroom assist!

 

[RichardT]

After reading this thread for the last couple of days, I did a test today. I stopped on what I would describe as a pretty steep incline with Hold Assist OFF.
Foot of the brake (and off the gas). Stationary for 2 seconds then started to creep forward. I assume that, as is said above, if the slope is steep enough it would roll back. But it would be very steep, to the extent that you would definitely have your brain in gear before you took your foot off the brake.
So I don't think there is much chance of accidentally rolling back.

 

[Ignition1]

After reading this thread for the last couple of days, I did a test today. I stopped on what I would describe as a pretty steep incline with Hold Assist OFF.
Foot of the brake (and off the gas). Stationary for 2 seconds then started to creep forward. I assume that, as is said above, if the slope is steep enough it would roll back. But it would be very steep, to the extent that you would definitely have your brain in gear before you took your foot off the brake.
So I don't think there is much chance of accidentally rolling back.

Nice one - thanks for testing. So really the £90 option could be a bit of a waste really considering the car reacts fine to a hill - still for 2 seconds then creeps forward without any driver input (other than taking your foot off the brake).

Here I was thinking I have 2 seconds to press the accelerator before I start to roll backwards on any sort of incline gradient but if it moves forward by itself (like the Multi-T) then I'm glad I didn't fork out the extra £90 - cheap as it is, it's still £90.

 

[RedTurtle]

Wish I had known that before I specified that option... prehaps I should have researched the options instead of being click happy.

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

I could of saved £90 knowing this too!!
I guess Audi doesn't want to make it too transparent otherwise they won't be pocketing that extra £90 from all the uneducated people like me

 

[h5djr]

As far as I'm concerned there are far too many Assists on an Audi.

Hill Assist
Hold Assist
Park Assist
Side Assist
Steer Assist
High Bream Assist
Light Assist
Seat Assist
RAC Assist
Drive Assist
Stop Assist
Go Assist
I can't be bothered to drive my car properly anymore Assist

I suppose the only good thing is that in some cases their are 'Assist' and we can still switch them OFF if we want to and drive the car without them.

 

[cuke2u]

Passenger assist is one I'd like to turn off

 

[Martinbanshee]

You're missing the point, it works downhill as well as uphill and makes the handbrake fully automatic, you never need to touch the handbrake again, even when parking and on downhill slopes. It's not just to improve uphill starts.
It holds indefinitely until you touch the gas which is great in heavy traffic.
During the last month I have touched the EPB button zero times, but you can turn it off if you wish e.g: reversing with door open.
Its brilliant when paired with S-Tronic.

 

[arad85]

After reading this thread for the last couple of days, I did a test today. I stopped on what I would describe as a pretty steep incline with Hold Assist OFF.
Foot of the brake (and off the gas). Stationary for 2 seconds then started to creep forward. I assume that, as is said above, if the slope is steep enough it would roll back. But it would be very steep, to the extent that you would definitely have your brain in gear before you took your foot off the brake.
So I don't think there is much chance of accidentally rolling back.

What happens if start/stop has cut in?

 

[h5djr]

You're missing the point, it works downhill as well as uphill and makes the handbrake fully automatic, you never need to touch the handbrake again, even when parking and on downhill slopes. It's not just to improve uphill starts.
It holds indefinitely until you touch the gas which is great in heavy traffic.
During the last month I have touched the EPB button zero times, but you can turn it off if you wish e.g: reversing with door open.
Its brilliant when paired with S-Tronic.

I assume you are talking about the optional Hold Assist. Hill-start Assist only stays on for a few seconds. I have Hold Assist but have it switched off and use the EPB in the same way as I have used the normal handbrake for many years.

Not sure about what happens with Start/Stop as I have that permanently switched off as well.

 

[Martinbanshee]

Yeah, as per the title.
I'm curious though, if you have a fully automatic handbrake why don't you use it? Each to their own and all that but why switch it off and then have to flick the lever every time you want the handbrake on when it can do it for you 24/7?
Is it just old habits?
Ps. I'm not having a dig at anyone, I'm genuinely baffled.
I mean, at night you can flick the EPB manually on after the car has held the brakes if you're worried about dazzling someone behind at traffic lights but during the day there's no need.

 

[Ignition1]

It could be the way I drive the A6 Mutitronic, but I tend to just hold the brake in traffic - or if I'm going to be stuck on a hill for a long time then I'll pull the EPB.

I'm rarely stuck in traffic on a hill that's very steep and I'm in the habit of using EPB every time I park the car. Switching it on automatically would be good but £90 for that feature seemed a bit steep (ha).

 

[Rob2k68]

I think for £90 it's still a good option then you can see if it suits your driving style or not and either leave it on or switching it off. Looking forward to having a play when I get my car but never use the manual handbrake until I've parked up and took the keys out so I'm either holding the car on the clutch or on the footbrake so think combined with the S-tronic it will suit my driving style. Never had an S-tronic before so it's all going to be new.

 

[RedTurtle]

Could help when rear ended, I always forget to put the handbrake on when sat still in traffic and as i've been informed if someone crashes into the back of you and you then crash into the back of the person in front, if you handbrake isn't on then you are liable for the car in front. However if your handbrake is on you are not liable. Mind you that could be codswollop.

 

[cemerson]

A3 has secondary braking after a collision anyway - whatever state your car is in, if you get hit it'll put the brakes on straight away automatically.

 

[RedTurtle]

I didn't know that! Thats very good to know

 

[cemerson]

As far as I'm concerned there are far too many Assists on an Audi.

Hill Assist
Hold Assist
Park Assist
Side Assist
Steer Assist
High Bream Assist
Light Assist
Seat Assist
RAC Assist
Drive Assist
Stop Assist
Go Assist
I can't be bothered to drive my car properly anymore Assist

Oh dear... are you one of these that believe that you lose some of your masculinity by having the car help you with things and giving you less to do? Do you feel like you need validation for your driving skills?

Lets get rid of synchro-mesh gear boxes, power steering, starter motors and windscreen demisters while we are at it! If you can't double de-clutch, wrestle a massive steering wheel, hand start an engine and drive with mist on your windscreen YOU OBVIOUSLY AREN'T A MAN ANY MORE AND HAVE NO DRIVING SKILLS !!!!111!!!ONE!!

...or not. You could just realise that assist systems reduce the distractions that the driver has to deal with, leaving them to concentrate on the primary functions of driving the car which vast evidence shows to be a whole lot safer, less tiring and less distracting all round?

[/rant-over]

 

[veeeight]

No, I like options that actually have a meaning and use - not just to overcome sheer laziness, or where there is little actual benefit

Having worked in Automotive Engineering for years, Automotive Engineers are amongst the worst for thinking "just because you can, you should". I could cite numerous examples of overthinking features and options which have led to mass confusion and disaster. Now everything is on CAN it's relatively easy to make the car do anything you want. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Electric Windows - Very useful for winding down the passenger side on a misty morning. Never had any hardship winding the driver side window down.
Electric Mirrors - Again, very useful for adjusting the passenger side. No hardship with the lever that came through the window on the driver side.
Electric start - yep, allowed women to drive, so this one is debatable
Power Steering - to a degree - yes, but now, having driven both the variable ratio and standard rack - the variable ratio actually is worse and less instinctive to drive with, so I would say the variable rack is not progress in the S3
Blind Spot detection - I would argue that the look over the shoulder is fundemental to driving, and in this respect promotes laziness and reliance upon technology as a substitution for good basic roadcraft
Hold Assist - the footbrake is a primary driving function - again I want to feel connected with my foot, onto the footbrake. Too many times I've seen drivers jump out of cars with HA into cars without HA, then take their foot off the footbrake at the lights only to realise that the car isn't braking for them. It's a primary driving control ***.

A useful option is one that demonstrates benefit (eg: starter motor) and not promote laziness on driving and roadcraft, and doesn't detract from the Primary Driving Controls of a car.

Otherwise go the whole hog and roll on the Google Driverless Cars - much safer, not this halfway house rubbish

 

[M1ke H]

I'm with @veeight on this.

Synchro-mesh gearboxes and safety features such as ABS and servo assisted brakes etc will sit there in the background happily minding their own business unless and until called upon by the driver. It’s what I would call ‘active’ assist packages such as Stop-start, Hold Assist, High Beam assist etc, over which the driver has no direct control, that all go towards de-skilling the principles of driving and associated expertise.

Before we know it we'll have driverless cars

Edit: Originally posted in reply to #81 above. We were obviously posting our respective replies at the same time.....

 

[a3_phil]

Otherwise go the whole hog and roll on the Google Driverless Cars - much safer, not this halfway house rubbish

Problem is, we need these intermediate steps to give people confidence in the systems. Trying to roll out a fully automated car with no automated features already on the road would be a non-starter I guess.

 

[veeeight]

Problem is, we need these intermediate steps to give people confidence in the systems. Trying to roll out a fully automated car with no automated features already on the road would be a non-starter I guess.

Agreed, but it does create problems of its own, witness people jumping out of work pool or borrowed cars, not applying handbrake, because their own car does it for them etc.

 

[a3_phil]

Agreed, but it does create problems of its own, witness people jumping out of work pool or borrowed cars, not applying handbrake, because their own car does it for them etc.

Tell me about it.

Our driveway just fits two cars but I have to move the wife's car onto the road if I want to wash mine and I routinely forget to put the handbrake on.

 

[David83S3]

Aha ....I didn't know all A3's had Hill Hold. I think that will be enough for me if its anything like my partners A5 Black Edition

As for this thread and whether it should be locked. I don't see the harm in people rambling on about the same topic again and again .....To be fair it is literally a matter of opinion on this one (Like it is with most). So you could in fact be trying to persuade one another to agree on your opinion for eternity ......

But like I said ...no harm in people talking / Discussing their views

 

[veeeight]

Tell me about it.

Our driveway just fits two cars but I have to move the wife's car onto the road if I want to wash mine and I routinely forget to put the handbrake on.

 

[David83S3]

My opinion though .... I prefer full control of the car as much as I can. I have always disliked cruise control as I feel out of control. I have spec'd my S3 as Manual for a similar reason ...I like to change the gears myself as I find it more involving. I drove my partners A5 Multi-tronic and ....Yes its great to sit back and just go ...especially in a car like the A5 ...feels luxurious!! ...But (In my opinion) in an S3 I want full control

So in summary .... Hill Hold Assist = Its your car ......its your choice

 

[a3_phil]

I'd be very interested to see the split of opinions on assistance with regards to annual mileage.

I do 20,000+ a year and for two hours a day I'm obliged to be in the car. It's certainly not for pleasure so anything they can do to make the drive easier or more relaxing, I'm all in favour of.

If I only had a short commute (or even had the Audi as a weekend car) I'd be a lot more receptive to the whole 'driving experience' argument and probably wouldn't bother with half of the assistance options.

 

[David83S3]

I'd be very interested to see the split of opinions on assistance with regards to annual mileage.

I do 20,000+ a year and for two hours a day I'm obliged to be in the car. It's certainly not for pleasure so anything they can do to make the drive easier or more relaxing, I'm all in favour of.

If I only had a short commute (or even had the Audi as a weekend car) I'd be a lot more receptive to the whole 'driving experience' argument and probably wouldn't bother with half of the assistance options.

I agree with your statement Phil .....you have a Diesel A3, which if I had I would also opt for the assist packages ..(Especially if I was doing the mileage you do!!)

 

[arad85]

I like my creature comforts and would not buy another car I commute in without ACC. I'm on 12000 miles/yr and spend between 1.25 and 1.75 hours a day in the car.

 

[h5djr]

Personally I'm quite happy for Audi to make available whatever Assist systems they like providing they also give those of us who would rather not have them the option to purchase them or not and preferably for us to switch off the non-safety related system if we want to. Obviously switching off ABS for example would be rather stupid. Although I'm retired I still do around 12-13k miles a year and enjoy every mile.

The optional Hill Hold (rather that standard Hill-start Hold) is a classic example. Some drivers love the system and use it all the time. Others, like me, prefer to allow my s-tronic to easily 'creep' when manoeuvring at slow speeds by default rather than having to switch the system off each time. This is the main reason I leave mine switched off and just use the EPB when necessary, in particular because of the 'always on whilst stopped brake light issue'.

I also have ACC but I only use it in speed limited road works and traffic queues because it ensures I remain at the correct speed but also keeps me a set distance from the vehicle in front if they are going just under the limit. In traffic queues it saves having to keep using the throttle and brake in slow moving traffic. Having said that I do not use it on the open road because I prefer to retain control myself. The ACC system can also have some strange effects such as approaching a roundabout and wanting to turn right. I'm behind other cars but I change to the outside lane and because there is nothing in front of me the car accelerates towards the roundabout which rather worries my wife. I then have to brake quite hard manually to slow down for the roundabout when I could have just approached it at the same speed as I was already doing.

Start/Stop is another example. I know I could switch it off every time I get in to the car but I have to remember to do it. As I have mine set it never cuts in which is how I prefer it. I feel the system works well with a manual gearbox, as in my wife's A1, but not so well with my s-tronic.

As long as we can adjust the way the car behaves with the systems then Audi can add them and we, as the drivers, can use them or not, depending on the way we drive and our own personal preferences. It's the same with options. Audi allow us to choose or not even more than VW do on the Golf. I considered a Golf before I purchased this A3, mainly because I prefer the Golf's touch screen and buttons interface to the Audi MMI but I could not buy a Golf with the engine, gearbox and suspension that I wanted without having to accept other options which were part of the standard package that I didn't want, like the 18" wheels, sport suspension and tinted rear windows of the Golf GTD. Audi allowed me to configure the A3 with all the options I wanted and none that I did not want. Long may it continue.