Help ! Relentless DP fitting

firestorm

Registered User
removed old cats - can't get old DP off. Past the point of no return now.
How do you guys get the old DP off without cutting the old DP ?

Cheers
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I normally use an air chisel on the flexi as this is the softest bit...

<tuffty/>
 

firestorm

Registered User
hmm, car is held on the subframe. I've got an angle grinder with a cutting disc ....

thanks for the suggestions, I'll probably cut it off if I can get the grinder down there, ****, its started raining again
 

Scullies

Registered User
I normally use an air chisel on the flexi as this is the softest bit...

<tuffty/>

Thats good advice, I ended up doing that. I tried to save my original dp but after a few hours of sweating and swearing , out came the air tool and chisel. Its actualy rather satisfying when you hear the air tool hammering away at the flexi joint.
I still had to loosen the subframe a lot to get the relentless DP through the bottom and up to the turbo.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
go through the drivers wheel arch with a SMALL grinder and cut through the flexi
 

firestorm

Registered User
grinder is too big to get to the DP

Where do you guys place the axle stands ? Its on the subframe at the mo, if I'm dropping it, then I'll need to mve it
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
move the stands under the 2 rails that run down the car, behind the subframe mounts.

i was lucky with mine, i had a split in the flexi, so i literally attacked the flexi with a pry bar and bent the living **** out of it till it was in half. try that.
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Would need to be on the jacking points of the sill mate... I have used a hacksaw blade with a makeshift handle (wrap stuff around one end) to saw through the flexi... you could also try a large flat bladed screwdriver os a bolster chisel with a hammer...

Be careful dropping the subframe as you can pull the steering rack off the column knuckle joint and its not much fun to refit... if you decide to remove the subframe altogether (an option) don't be tempted to undo the ball joints via the 3 nuts holding it to the arm... undo from the joint itself... tracking may well end up being out once you bolt up the subframe so get it checked as the subframe can float about

<tuffty/>
 

firestorm

Registered User
started 10am this morning
gave up 22:30

Spent the first 30 mins trying to work out how to support the car. No obvious place to put the axle stands, so put them under the sub frame and jacked it up at the rear of the subrame where the big bolts is.

Took off the charge pipe. Worked out I could undo the DP/turbo pipe with a selection of knuckle joints. Two nuts were 17mm, one was 16mm strange but true. Wasn't easy, but doable, took about 1.5hours. Took off the cat, 6 nuts were rusted on, used a nut remover. Took off compression join, nuts rusted on. Took about 45mins. Tried to take DP off rubber block, , couldn't get it over the mushroom end of the support bracket, used a grinder to cut off the end. Tried taking off the heatshield around the drive shaft gaitor. One of the bolts rounded off. So left it. Tried the next 2 hours trying to manipulate the DP. Wouldn't come out.

Put out an SOS on here, very quick responses (THANKS GUYS). decided to cut the DP, grinder took up too much room. Went to buy a reciprocating saw from screwfix and a 10 blades, a box of ss nus and bolts, walked out £92 lighter.

Took 2 mins to cut the double cat flange. Took 2 hours to make the next cut, tried cutting through the driver's wheel well, underneath etc, but it was very awkward. Got the lower part of the DP flange section off, that was easy. The top half, what a nightmare. The power steering pipe, ac pipe and alu heatshield all conspired against my efforts. Spent another hour trying various ways to get the top half of the DP off. In the end, I tried the heatshield nut again and it came off, then the remainder of the DP came out at 22:00. Then spent the next 15 minutes trying to get the Relentless DP in. No dice.

Through the 11 hours I was out there, I got rained on, swarf in my hair and eyes. I give up.

I've broken my car, it has no exhaust.

What can I do now ? I don't have the experience or confidence to take any more bits off my car.

Too much ambition and not enough skill unfortunately.

sos.gif
 
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dre_S3

Registered User
I feel your pain mate stay focused and have a bash at it tomo you have the old Dp out so hard work is done from what I have read
Have you dropped your subframe yet will make it easier to get the 3" Dp in
 

firestorm

Registered User
Not sure how to drop the subframe - I'm worried about 50Kg of steel dropping on my head and pulling ac and power steering pipes with it :(

Dre, I hope yours goes better than mine. Have a means for cutting through the DP into a million little pieces.

Have new nuts and bolts for the new DP and cat.

You'll need a couple of 1/2inch knuckle joints and long extensions.

A mate to help. Swear jar.

A lot of luck.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
There are 2 square/box sections that run about 2 foot down the car from the subframe, put your axle stands here.
Undo your 4 subframe bolts, but leave the bolts a thread or 2 in, so the subframe is lowered on its bolts (about 1.5 inch)
Then undo your prop shaft at the transfer box (3 hex nuts) and there is also prop mount a third down its length under a heat shield, undo this, and the prop will pull ofts spline, and can be pushed aide.

Those 3 things will give you a lot more room, I promise you.

Now a tip for getting the new one in. Thread it in with the flange facing away from the turbo, as you go in you can begin to twist it toward the turbo, till eventual its facing it, and will easily go on the DP bolts.

I hope that is clear and it helps.
And I hope you have a new multi layer metal gasket and brand new oem DP nuts
 

firestorm

Registered User
Karl,
Hmm, prop shaft did get in the way of the new DP.
I'll try that.
I've got a new gasket from VW, but not 100% sure if it's the right one. I'll need to check.
I planned on using the existing copper coated nuts. Is it worth putting copper grease on these or just use them dry? Not sure as there are high temps involved.
Better to get new oem ones ?

Also is it worth using the DP to cat copper looking gasket that cam with the Relentless DP ?

Thanks for your help.
 

dre_S3

Registered User
Just get some new bolts mate and dont bother with the copper grease and for the dp to cat use high temp silicone sealer don't use any of the gaskets you got with the downpipe there ****

atb

dre
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Don't use the the supplied copper 'gaskets'... OEM gasket for turbo to DP (metal 3 bolt) and for the 2 bolt flange (DP to cat/de-cat) use high temp sealant (no gasket)... relentless used to supply crappy gaskets that turned to dust within weeks of fitting... they now supply a profiled (if you can call it that) piece of copper that is thier attempt at a higher temp gasket... avoid...

<tuffty/>
 

jezzy

Registered User
i did this a couple of months back, i did not remove the subframe, i used a small grinder from argos £22.
i cut the flexi on the downpipe, bit awkward but got there in the end.
Then i moved the prop out of the way, 3 bolts and rocked the engine till the prop moved and moved it the side.
The new dp (relentless) slid in but couldnt get it past with the hanger on, you will have to cut it off and get it welded back on.
be very careful when cutting the old dp dont want to cut into the others lines behind it.
i did wonder after i did it, if i couldnt have just moved the prop and slid the old dp out that way?
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
IIRC elsawin suggests that the DP slids out through the wheel arch... one of the nuts on the turbo can be accessed through the arch, there is a grommet from memory that you pass a long extension through..

They are awkward as feck but just be methodical and it will happen...

<tuffty/>
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Just to give you some hope, but also **** you off, me and my dad did it in about 3 hrs. It is just one big puzzle, but it IS possible, you don't need to cut anything if the righy to make room.

And if you don't use new nuts, I can guarentee they won't stay tight.
 

vrbob

Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!
Just seen this,
Yeah it's a b1tch of a job especially the first time you do it as it gets more and more difficult as you get further into it and then you go past the point of no return and it gets proper scary when you have the old dp in loads of bits etc.
I got my old one out by dropping the subframe completely and cutting the dp from under the car as close to the flexi as possible. Then with a little brute force managed to get the old one out. Getting the new one in with the subframe off wasn't too bad just lining up the hangers etc was a bit fiddly.
 

firestorm

Registered User
Original DP is in 4 seperate pieces now, I've ordered new turbo nuts and I have a new turbo to DP gasket from vw. Car is on stands, but it looks like I need to support from the small box section instead of the sub frame, as I intend loosening the sub and taking the prop off. Hopefully I can get the new DP on after that.

Karl - you can do it in 3hrs !?!?! It took me longer to cut and extract the bar steward, at least I know it can be done, this time yesterday I was so peed off with it all, swmbo saw me take a fully functioning car and spent almost 12hrs rendering it into an immobile wreck.

Thanks for your encouragement guys.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
my dad is a mechanic, so we attacked it. and i knew what i had to do to get access to it all, all the subframe, prop, wheel arch, and flexi splitting took a matter of minutes. the rest is fiddling around like a plonker.
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I don't have a prop shaft, or a transfer box.

Takes me about 10 minutes to remove my ko4 downpipe, and about to minutes to refit. Can also access all 3 bolts from the engine bay easily!
 

Scullies

Registered User
+1 on loosening the prop shaft and if I remember correctly I removed the dogbone mount so I could lever the engine a bit forward for that little extra space. I used pieces of wood to keep the subframe and engine from returning to their original positions.
It took me about 7 hours and thats with an air tool and a few beers. I would of lost the plot without the beers to keep me going :yes:

You are more than halfway there, once you get the DP through the gap and finished your little dance of joy you will be done in no time.
 

firestorm

Registered User
Prawn, so you only have half a car, that's why it only takes you 10 mins to drop the DP :moa:
 

firestorm

Registered User
Update - Old DP is out, hallelujah.

I've lowered the subframe by about 35mm by removing the big 21mm bolt and loosened the ones close to the discs.
Also removed dogbone mount. Undone three strange looking non-hex bolts (splined?), pushed prop out of the way at the gearbox end.
Can move engine/gearbox 15-30mm by pushing it with my foot.

But I still can't get the new one on. ****** hangar gets in the way.
Is it ok/easy to remove the prop from the box in the middle, under the heatshield ? I'm worried aboout being able to put the thing back in again ....

I'm considering cutting the hangar off.

The saga continues
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I found, on mine, that to get it in, I had to rotate it up as it went in.

I started off with the DP pointing forwards and slid the end up behind the subframe, then rotated it as it went up towards the turbo and amazingly that got it in place OK.

When it was in I found that the hanger foulled my subframe anyway, and ended up cutting it off, but that's not the point :laugh:
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
i did what prawn did. but my habger was ok.
 

firestorm

Registered User
Karl - your dad is a car mechanic - I see, makes things 10x easier :salute:
so you did it on a ramp, decent tools to hand.

Took all the heatshield out (the ones above the prop), took the dogbone out so I could pivot the engine.

Well I nearly go it on, need to push the sump towards the front and the subframe to the back of the car, I was trying to do this with my feet and hands as well as manoeveur the DP. I'm going to wedge a bit of wood between the sump and firewall and pull the subframe towards the rear. It's looking so, so close.

Any other hints on getting a little more clearance ?
 

VAB

Registered User
I cannot not offer too much advise but mine went in with the hanger on with a bit of wiggling
 

jezzy

Registered User
for the amount of hassle it causes, just cut it off.
And then the end is nigh
my hanger has been off for a month of two now, getting it done next week.
 

possyoo

Registered User
me and my mate did his on his drive way on axle stands no differently to anyone else on here, just where we had no air chisel i beat the flexi with a hammer, like they said we got the new one in by twisting and pushing had the subrame completly hanging think we had to lever the mounting over but after that it was all good
 

vrbob

Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!
I just removed the subframe completely as its not very hard you just need to get your alignment done after cost me £60 or do as I did when we did it on another s3 to fit some bushes and just marked all the adjustable bolts with tippex before we undid anything this way you can re align it easy when putting back together.
We managed to get my new dp back in quite easy like this with the hanger attached and did not even undo the prop shaft.
 

vrbob

Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!
Oh and this was all done on axle stands too.
 
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