Help Needed Please

[a3james]

right ive got a audi a3 2.0 tdi s line with the bkd engine on a 05 plate which the head has been removed and found to be no good.
i have ordered a new head and have not got the original head gasket that was on there !

is there anyway of finding out what gasket came on the engine from the factory ? or is there any recommendations to what has come off of your engine when your head has been changed.

i was going to go for the two hole gasket which is 1.63mm.


as for running the three hole gasket would it make much difference in performance ?

GASKETS :
one hole 1.5 or 1.55
two hole 1.63
three hole 1.71


Many thanks

 

[mike foster]

James, if you have ordered a NEW head then just ask them to provide the correct gasket ! I can't believe you are worrying about the gasket when you have gone to the extraordinarily unusual lengths of a buying a new head !

 

[a3james]

James, if you have ordered a NEW head then just ask them to provide the correct gasket ! I can't believe you are worrying about the gasket when you have gone to the extraordinarily unusual lengths of a buying a new head !

Ive ordered a AMC Head which comes built with valves and springs which just needs the cams off my old head.

as for the gasket they said to use the same gasket that was on the car before, which i dont have to be able to know what one it was now !

So im in a bit of a situation now
Thanks

 

[mike foster]

Ive ordered a AMC Head which comes built with valves and springs which just needs the cams off my old head.

as for the gasket they said to use the same gasket that was on the car before, which i dont have to be able to know what one it was now !

So im in a bit of a situation now
Thanks

It's a strange one because all the different types seem to be suitable and are all the same price !

I would suggest that it doesn't matter so go to your nearest dealer and get any one and if it's ok then great, if not take it back and swap it for another.

 

[Viking]

Didn't you ask this question already on another thread?

Yes, here.

So you need to measure the protrusion of the pistons above the bores to determine the correct thickness gasket.

 

[mike foster]

Didn't you ask this question already on another thread?

Yes, here.

So you need to measure the protrusion of the pistons above the bores to determine the correct thickness gasket.

I didn't spot that mate but you are absolutely right ! Get AMC to sort it !

What I don't understand is why, as far as ETKA is concerned, all three types are suitable for BKD engines regardless of kw rating ?

 

[Viking]

I didn't spot that mate but you are absolutely right ! Get AMC to sort it !

What I don't understand is why, as far as ETKA is concerned, all three types are suitable for BKD engines regardless of kw rating ?

There are 3 different thickness gaskets so that manufacturing tolerances in engine build can be accommodated. Each engine cannot be exactly the same tolerance so the gasket is used to rectify this slight "imperfection".

You need to measure how much the piston(s) protrude above the top of the cylinders and select a gasket accordingly.

Piston Projection 0.91 - 1.00mm ---- 1 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.01 - 1.10mm ---- 2 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.11 - 1.20mm ---- 3 Hole gasket

 

[a3james]

Didn't you ask this question already on another thread?

Yes, here.

So you need to measure the protrusion of the pistons above the bores to determine the correct thickness gasket.

Yes i did have another post mate.

 

[Viking]

Yes i did have another post mate.

See my previous post.

 

[a3james]

There are 3 different thickness gaskets so that manufacturing tolerances in engine build can be accommodated. Each engine cannot be exactly the same tolerance so the gasket is used to rectify this slight "imperfection".

You need to measure how much the piston(s) protrude above the top of the cylinders and select a gasket accordingly.

Piston Projection 0.91 - 1.00mm ---- 1 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.01 - 1.10mm ---- 2 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.11 - 1.20mm ---- 3 Hole gasket

ok what is it i am measuring though i take it youve got to set the crank at tdc then measure from the piston to flush to the mating surface ?

 

[mike foster]

There are 3 different thickness gaskets so that manufacturing tolerances in engine build can be accommodated. Each engine cannot be exactly the same tolerance so the gasket is used to rectify this slight "imperfection".

You need to measure how much the piston(s) protrude above the top of the cylinders and select a gasket accordingly.

Piston Projection 0.91 - 1.00mm ---- 1 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.01 - 1.10mm ---- 2 Hole gasket

Piston Projection 1.11 - 1.20mm ---- 3 Hole gasket

Thanks for that Viking.

Quick question to help the OP - Does it really matter which one, and is it reasonable to assume that the thickest one is the safest albeit it might reduce the compression ratio ?

 

[Viking]

ok what is it i am measuring though i take it youve got to set the crank at tdc then measure from the piston to flush to the mating surface ?

With the cylinder head removed you set a dial gauge to the exact height of the face of the block, but over the top of the piston. Then turn the engine over to TDC and read off on the gauge how much the piston pokes out of the bore. It will be somewhere in the range I posted above (unless you've clattered some valves and bent a con rod or crank or summat), and make a note of this value for each piston in turn. Take the largest value of the four and use this measurement to select your correct head gasket.

Piston projection at TDC must be measured when new pistons or a short engine is installed. Install the appropriate cylinder head gasket depending upon piston projection, according to the table:

Note Turn engine clockwise to measure piston projection at TDC.

If different values are determined during the projection measurement, use the largest dimension for selecting the gasket.

 

[Viking]

Thanks for that Viking.

Quick question to help the OP - Does it really matter which one, and is it reasonable to assume that the thickest one is the safest albeit it might reduce the compression ratio ?

Compression ratio should be correct otherwise you're into "redesigning the engine characteristics" territory. Not something a home mechanic would be advised to do without good reason. The calculation and gasket thickness give the factory specified compression ratio, so best stick with that unless you've got good reason to increase or decrease it.

 

[a3james]

With the cylinder head removed you set a dial gauge to the exact height of the face of the block, but over the top of the piston. Then turn the engine over to TDC and read off on the gauge how much the piston pokes out of the bore. It will be somewhere in the range I posted above (unless you've clattered some valves and bent a con rod or crank or summat), and make a note of this value for each piston in turn. Take the largest value of the four and use this measurement to select your correct head gasket.

Would a vernier caliper be ok or do you need to use a dial gauge as i have not got one ?
Thanks

 

[Viking]

Would a vernier caliper be ok or do you need to use a dial gauge as i have not got one ?
Thanks

If your vernier caliper has a depth probe on the end of the handle, and is sufficiently sensitive to get an accurate reading then you may be able to use it.

I put some pics in my previous post btw.

 

[mike foster]

How much would it cost to get an expert to do it for you ?

 

[a3james]

How much would it cost to get an expert to do it for you ?

A garage is doing the job but they cant find the gasket which came off the engine so im just seeing whether there was a way that you could find out which gasket you need.

Viking would you notice a performance difference if i was to use the thicker gasket ?

 

[mike foster]

Viking would you notice a performance difference if i was to use the thicker gasket ?

£100 says no !!

 

[Viking]

A garage is doing the job but they cant find the gasket which came off the engine so im just seeing whether there was a way that you could find out which gasket you need.

Viking would you notice a performance difference if i was to use the thicker gasket ?

I don't know. I'm not a design engineer. VW did all that stuff when they designed the engine to work at it's best with a specific compression ratio. However, a thicker gasket would reduce the compression ratio which would lead to less heat build up via compression, so poorer combustion I would guess.

If you fit a thinner gasket there's always the possibility of valve/piston interference I guess.

 

[mike foster]

Just checked ETKA again and the difference between the thickest and the thinnest is just over one tenth of a millimetre !!

You can make more of a difference than that by how tight you tighten the bolts and how accurate the torque wrench is !!!!!

Go for the middle one and for god's sake stop worrying !

 

[a3james]

ok thanks for the help ill keep you posted.

Cheers

 

[Viking]

Just checked ETKA again and the difference between the thickest and the thinnest is just over one tenth of a millimetre !!

You can make more of a difference than that by how tight you tighten the bolts and how accurate the torque wrench is !!!!!

Go for the middle one and for god's sake stop worrying !

You going all Spanish on us? Get it somewhere close and that'll do. :icon_thumright:

 

[a3james]

What do you mean by that lol and i will do

 

[Viking]

Just a reference to the way the Spanish built my Seat Altea. If they didn't have the correct parts to hand when the car came along the production line they just fitted something that looked like it might fit. In the absence of that they just left things off. So many cars came out of the factory with cruise control fitted but no cruise light on the ****** dash for example, as they fitted the wrong dash pods. Engine covers were fitted if they had them, and sometimes they even painted the cars properly.

 

[mike foster]

You going all Spanish on us? Get it somewhere close and that'll do. :icon_thumright:

No mate - just being practical ! Be honest, you know I'm right really !

 

[Viking]

I've heard so many horror stories of people having the head gasket replaced and cocking it up by head skimming just a couple of thou off and knackering the compression ratio, I'd be inclined to stick with the engine tolerances as the manufacturer specifies them. Just to be on the safe side.

Besides, if we all tell people to do it properly, then we all look clever. If we tell someone to do it wrong and it makes a mess, we look silly....