Help needed!..3.2Q DSG Hesitant engine ~ 2k rpm

Mall-uk

Registered User
Hi all,

Digging this thread again.
I had the same symptoms as most of you here : hesitant at 2k rpm, rough idle etc .... back in 2013 when I first purchased the car, after some long search on the forum I had the ECU update at my local dealer (not without some long discussions/arguments) and the car came out fine.
However recently the car battery went flat after some time without use, so I had to jump start it and recharge the battery. And the same problems are back , same symptoms & smae code errors too .
I had the car scanned last week end and the ECU software version is still the 'latest' 8036.
Which raise the question : What do I do next ?

Please if anyone has an idea ... let me know .
I have read on a another thread that the same issue was resolved by changing the "cyclone oil separetor" (inside the rocker cover , part 022 103 515 A)
As anyone got any view on this or heard/knows anyone who had it done ??
 

paddyg

Registered User
hi mall-uk before i changed pcv. oil filler cap and dip stick sucking back on and very errattic tickover when removed.could only hear hissing when finger placed over breather hole at back of oil filler next to pipe leading to top of manifold.put finger over hole and feel for sucking now mine has been done i have no sucking at all but still a little vacuum when taking off oil cap which i am told is normal.but i still have 2000rpm hesitation.going for a vagcom tommorrow hope this helps you. very frustrating paddyg
 

Tonis-Sander Maarits

Registered User
Hi, I have an Audi A3 3.2 manual and it also has this problem around 2000rpm and when letting go of the throttle. It is also making some minor rattling noise when you hear closely right next to the timing belt. Changing the timing belt can be quite costly. Would upgrading the ECU also fix this problem? Or am I risking with blowing up the engine? Help much appreciated
 

paddy

Registered User
You dont have a timing belt, you have a timing chain and there lies the problem. Its supposed to last the life of the car and is an engine out job to change. The rattle is because the auto adjuster has reached its limit and the hesitation because the cam position sensor is recording a fault because the chain has stretched beyond the scope of the tensioner . No amount of software changing will fix this as its a mechanical issue IMHO.
 

-Ju-

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
From my own experience changing the chains and tensioners cured the rattle, however it still needed the software update to cure the 2k hesitation.
It was a lovely car though once sorted.
 

paddy

Registered User
Agree with Ju but as you have had the software update already you need to get the cam back into position and for that you will need the chain and tensioners fixed. Its a fantastic car so worth spending the money. Audi should have developed the 3.2 for the S range instead of the 2.0 turbo, trouble was they would have basically ended up with a 3.2 turbo to near the S5
 

Mall-uk

Registered User
Hi all,

Back in for some update on the hesitations - irratic idle - misfires.
The issue changed from been intermittant to constant; with the addition of the rattling noise on the left side of the engine (where the chains are located) . After a full specialist diagnostic which indicated stretch chains, I had the timing chains kit replaced .
Once all put back together : still the same !!!! except from the rattling noise .
So the is still in the garage, the "cyclone oil separetor" has been replaced (althought it was in working order), the next step is to replace the camshafts adjusters (which are not cheap) and the associated sensors as good measures .
With all fingers crossed, I certainly hope that this will cure the issues as I don t know what else I could do more.

Big lumps of money spent on the car but should well worth it if it last .

I ll keep posting the update .
Mall
 

zeba5

Registered User
Hi all,

Back in for some update on the hesitations - irratic idle - misfires.
The issue changed from been intermittant to constant; with the addition of the rattling noise on the left side of the engine (where the chains are located) . After a full specialist diagnostic which indicated stretch chains, I had the timing chains kit replaced .
Once all put back together : still the same !!!! except from the rattling noise .
So the is still in the garage, the "cyclone oil separetor" has been replaced (althought it was in working order), the next step is to replace the camshafts adjusters (which are not cheap) and the associated sensors as good measures .
With all fingers crossed, I certainly hope that this will cure the issues as I don t know what else I could do more.

Big lumps of money spent on the car but should well worth it if it last .

I ll keep posting the update .
Mall

Yup. My dealer couldnt or didnt want to make the update. The hesitation became present at iddle all the times after i decided to try with some oil additive to clean the engine. Then i tried to gently hit the cam sensor N205 and the engine worked fine again for like 5 secs. I'm guessing that the sensor is somehow clogged. I've been running with that sensor disconnected for the past 10.000km . Car runs fine, idles fine but the hesitation around 2k rpm and the exaggerated fuel consumption is still present.

Thing is i have to remove all the front of the car and valve cover, and might even have to take the cylinder head apart to change that stupid sensor?
 

Mall-uk

Registered User
Yup. My dealer couldnt or didnt want to make the update. The hesitation became present at iddle all the times after i decided to try with some oil additive to clean the engine. Then i tried to gently hit the cam sensor N205 and the engine worked fine again for like 5 secs. I'm guessing that the sensor is somehow clogged. I've been running with that sensor disconnected for the past 10.000km . Car runs fine, idles fine but the hesitation around 2k rpm and the exaggerated fuel consumption is still present.

Thing is i have to remove all the front of the car and valve cover, and might even have to take the cylinder head apart to change that stupid sensor?

In order to replace the sensor the cover and the side cover by the adjusters need removing as the bolts are in the inside , which is the reason why desicion was made to replace the sensors even though they showing as fine on the diagnostic . Better that than to end up with a faulty sensors few weeks down the road.
It seems that all these issues are partly due to the long life oil service option . My car was on long life oil for the first 50k miles (serviced by Audi) then on standard oil change & issues started at 60-65k miles I think. Has anyone with the issue never ran with the long life oil service ??
 

zeba5

Registered User
In order to replace the sensor the cover and the side cover by the adjusters need removing as the bolts are in the inside , which is the reason why desicion was made to replace the sensors even though they showing as fine on the diagnostic . Better that than to end up with a faulty sensors few weeks down the road.
It seems that all these issues are partly due to the long life oil service option . My car was on long life oil for the first 50k miles (serviced by Audi) then on standard oil change & issues started at 60-65k miles I think. Has anyone with the issue never ran with the long life oil service ??

so i would need to take the intake, and valve cover and side plates , right? can i do it witout touching the timing chain, etc?
 

Mall-uk

Registered User
I don t beleive that you need to touch the chains as the sensor is sat between the adjusters and once the side cover off it s just 2 screws/bolts to remove .
Loads of work involved for a sensor .
 

John SB3.2

Registered User
Should I buy one. or which one to buy?
I used to own a 2004 3.2 Sportback which I loved and I am thinking of getting another one now. I know that the timing chains were uprated on later cars and that they don't suffer the dreaded wear/stretch issue that the earlier cars do, but do the newer cars actually suffer from any of the same hesitation or misfire issues which may have other causes such as coil packs, oil separator, sensors, or whatever? Also, exactly when were the timing chains uprated, date, engine type, engine number?
 

Mall-uk

Registered User
I personally like the 3.2l v6 Very much . Except when it has that timing issue, the car very smooth , very torquey and fast enough . And looking at the cars you could get for similar ££ it s a hard to find better fast premium hatchback.
Regarding which one to get : the facelift 3 dr are from 55 plates have the newer all in one front grille but cost nearly twice as much to tax . I would avoid any car with long life oil service (as I beleived it causes the timing chain issues).
Let us know if you get one and which one you went for .
 

paddy

Registered User
I am not sure about the long life oil, back in the day when my 3.2 had issues it had only done 45k miles. It was said at the time on a german forum that the manufacturer of the chain had stamped his logo too deeply on the side plates of the chain and that's why they stretched.

This was mine , best A3/S3 ever IMHO

Smellysback.jpg
 

Mall-uk

Registered User
@ paddy: very nice .

Quick update on the repairs :

Got the car back from the garage today .

Camshaft adjusters , sensors/solenoids replaced and hurray that finally put an end to the nightmare, at a cost but at least (last) I can enjoy the car ..

Only done my commute to work today and planning on a good run over the week end to make sure ..

Let you know if anything change ...
 

slowcoach3

Registered User
Please excuse my obvious laziness, I have actually read the first 13 pages but now I have a headache! Could someone enlighten me as to what was the actual fix? Cheers Russ
 

paddy

Registered User
what are your symptoms.
 

slowcoach3

Registered User
The car is bouncing around at 2k and doesn't feel particularly smooth. It does go pretty well when under hard acceleration. There's no fault codes or chain rattle!
 

-Ju-

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Sounds like you need the software update, that was the end result from that thread.
 

slowcoach3

Registered User
Thank you, I've read a load more now my headache has cleared lol
Exeter Audi aren't always very helpful so it will be fun asking them to update the software!
 

-Ju-

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
I think in general dealers are reluctant to do the update and will usually tell you a diagnostic is required first and following that, an update is not available.
They are a law unto themselves tbh and not helpful in most cases.
In the first instance can you get a scan done by a friendly member on here to find out what software is currently on the ECU and then you have a benchmark to start from
I wish you luck
 

slowcoach3

Registered User
I think in general dealers are reluctant to do the update and will usually tell you a diagnostic is required first and following that, an update is not available.
They are a law unto themselves tbh and not helpful in most cases.
In the first instance can you get a scan done by a friendly member on here to find out what software is currently on the ECU and then you have a benchmark to start from
I wish you luck
Thank you! I have vcds myself so I'll check that, I've already scanned for codes - non present - but didn' t check the ecu or software code as I didn't realise an update even existed.
Thanks again
 

slowcoach3

Registered User
Thank you to everyone on here for all of the information, I went in to Exeter Audi well armed with the correct numbers and data and with very little argument I'm now booked in for the update! Cheers
 

WrightClick

Registered User
Thank you to everyone on here for all of the information, I went in to Exeter Audi well armed with the correct numbers and data and with very little argument I'm now booked in for the update! Cheers

Did this cure the problem for you? I bought an A3 3.2 DSG Quattro last year and I've always thought it was a bit funny around 2000rpm and below. All is good with the timing chain, etc., as far as I know, as there are no fault codes showing and no rattle. I'm in Tavistock, so if Exeter Audi can do the update, I'll get in touch with them :)
 

Tekneq

Registered User
@WrightClick you'll probably want to get your ECU software version checked then if there is a relevant update needed then book in with Audi, otherwise you'll probably have to pay for diagnostics and Audi BS ! (I struggled to get Audi to agree to do this so went private)

If you have a VDCS member near you I would advise having them scan your car and check the version, or even better if your attending 'Audi's in the Park' @DJAlix from "VAG Car Coding' will be able to wave his magic over it for sure.
 

WrightClick

Registered User
@WrightClick you'll probably want to get your ECU software version checked then if there is a relevant update needed then book in with Audi, otherwise you'll probably have to pay for diagnostics and Audi BS ! (I struggled to get Audi to agree to do this so went private)

If you have a VDCS member near you I would advise having them scan your car and check the version, or even better if your attending 'Audi's in the Park' @DJAlix from "VAG Car Coding' will be able to wave his magic over it for sure.

@Tekneq Sorry, I probably should've said - I've got a code reader (which I bought not long after the car to help me diagnose a few electrical issues), so I've checked the software version (5604) which looks very old compared to to what people have been posting on this thread. The full ECU details are:

VAG No.: 022906032CB
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1 5604
Coding: 0000178
IMP: 0000
WSC: 006435

If I was closer to London, I'd definitely be giving @DJAlix a shout! I was just interested to see how @slowcoach3 got on at Exeter Audi, as that's only about 45mins from me!

Cheers :)
 

Tekneq

Registered User
Ok cool @WrightClick, I hope @slowcoach3 get's in touch and you get it sorted, such an annoying issue !

Good luck :thumbs up:
 

WrightClick

Registered User
Ok cool @WrightClick, I hope @slowcoach3 get's in touch and you get it sorted, such an annoying issue !

Good luck :thumbs up:

Thanks @Tekneq :) I haven't heard anything from @slowcoach3 yet. I emailed Exeter Audi yesterday and their auto responder said that they would get back to me by 10am today at the latest, but I haven't heard back from them yet either... I'm working away for a few days, so hopefully they'll get back to me this week and I can sort it when I get back :)
 

-Ju-

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Audi dealers generally are very ignorant when it comes to this update and will firstly request you to book it in for a diagnosis and then they will tell you there is no update available.
You need to print out all the relevant info and preferably go in and ask to speak with a master tech as they are very slightly more knowledgeable than the chimpanzees on the service desks.
If you can't get in first then try the phone route but good luck with that.
I can't believe this thread is still going after all these years!
 

WrightClick

Registered User
I spoke to Exeter Audi, gave them the TPI number and they said that it wasn't relevant to my car. The best they could do would be to book it in for diagnostics (sounds familiar) and go from there, but they couldn't fit me in until September!

I'm actually going to be up near London at the beginning of September. Whereabouts is @DJAlix located?
 

DJAlix

VAG Car Coding™ Limited
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I spoke to Exeter Audi, gave them the TPI number and they said that it wasn't relevant to my car. The best they could do would be to book it in for diagnostics (sounds familiar) and go from there, but they couldn't fit me in until September!

I'm actually going to be up near London at the beginning of September. Whereabouts is @DJAlix located?
Muswell Hill, North London :)
 

abmat

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Hi,

Newbie here reigniting an old thread! Took me a while but I read through all of this one but have a question.

I recently bought a A3 3.2 DSG sportback. Car has done 73k and has full service history.

On the test drive all seemed fine, I was testing it in a urban area so couldn't really put it through its paces. I wasn't after a car but this one came up and unfortunately my Vag com lead was 200 miles away otherwise I would have scanned it before I paid the cash.

On the return journey down the M6, in the 50 zone I could feel the car 'pulsing', but only slightly. Other than this the car drives really well, pulls well, but can be a bit hesitant pulling away (intermittent).

I've done a scan and pulled up the following codes

Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.lbl
Part No SW: 022 906 032 GJ HW: Bas isX 3
Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1G 7001
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: AUX7Z0E4FNV0H6
Coding: 0000178
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 59BE2B6290701682FC-800C

2 Faults Found:
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 008 - ****** Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

I have little, if no chain rattle, no misfires (checked with Vag Com) and like I say the car runs pretty well, just the pulsing, which is intermittent.

I also measured the cam adjustment (208/209)

Address 01: Engine (022 906 032 GJ)

16:20:51 Group 208: Camshaft Adjustment Adaptation (Intake)
640 /min Engine Speed (G28)
121 Phase Position Intake Cam.
2.0°KW Intake Cam. Offset
00100000 Intake Cam. Adaptation

16:20:51 Group 209: Camshaft Adjustment Adaptation (Exhaust)
640 /min Engine Speed (G28)
78 Phase Position Exhaust Cam.
-2.0°KW Exhaust Cam. Offset
00100000 Exhaust Cam. Adaptation

From those readings is my chain within limits? I believe the reading should be below 8? The car doesn't seem to have half the symptoms, or be as severe as others have had on this thread.

Where should I start? I think the ECU update is out of the question as I have a DSG and the ECU is on 7001 already. Should I start with swapping out the camshaft adjustment valve (N205)?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Matt
 

paddy

Registered User
Have you checked the Ross tech site for your fault codes ?

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes


TBH when mine went haywire the cam chain had run out of adjustment at 45k miles, i would be surprised if yours had lasted 80k. without major issues.
similar problems can be found with Cam position sencor, cam advance ****** unit, chain and tensioner but if you dont have a chain rattle i would be looking at hydrolic action on the cam advance ****** or position sensor but i am no expert.
 

abmat

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Yep. Checked Ross tech.

The cam fault could be the N205? Cam sensor.

My chain appears right as it’s well within the values (i think you found them paddy) so I am suspecting the sensor or oil solenoid.
 

paddy

Registered User
The problem with fault codes is they are usually the result of an underlying problem, not the problem itself . You can have a string of codes a mile long and an engine running like a 3 cylinder because the oil filler cap is not on properly... but there is no fault code for that :)

Clear the codes and see if they come back together or separately. check your oil pick up pipe as they can be a load of trouble and you may be losing oil pressure to your cam adv ****** unit at lower revs.s
 

DJAlix

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Anyone?

@DJAlix am I correct that the new map won’t cure it?
Not a mechanic so I cannot say 100% about any physical problems other than what I have experienced while performing updates. Personally I always suggest the software update route first as it tends to be the fastest a cheapest way to start a process of elimination. For your ECU the most up to date file is: 8036.
 
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