Have you heard the S4/S5 rumour...

cuke2u

Registered User
Fascinating reading really.

Although it all sounds a bit dodgy, I can't help wondering if (assuming this is all true) Audi are trying to be a bit clever with this. New diesels are apparently not dirty after all; they could certainly produce an S4 diesel with better performance than the petrol version; they have a track record with diesel performance (Le Mans) etc. So what's not to like?

Makes me think of Apple convincing the world we need the iPad. A tablet that costs more than many laptops (yet isn't a computer) and only does what most smart phones do, except you can't use a tablet as a phone (generally). Basically, clever marketing.

Time will tell I guess, and in the meantime I imagine exhaust sound engineers are trying to perform a miracle :tearsofjoy: and a few designers are trying to work out how much damping needs to be squeezed under the bonnet to quieten down that giveaway tap, tap, tap sound on tick over.
The LeMans car was a hybrid, the only hybrid Porsche version of that is a 2.9 petrol engine which might make more sense than a diesel. As others are stating diesels tend not to be visceral enough these days, like most engines the emission rules have muted them. Plus they can never make a noise good enough to satisfy true audi performance heads. Imagine a noise through the speakers only to open a window to be met with the diesel death rattle, seriously????
Was it not also dieselgate that forced Audi out of LeMans?
 
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Daggerit

Registered User
The LeMans car was a hybrid, the only hybrid Porsche version of that is a 2.9 petrol engine which might make more sense than a diesel. As others are stating diesels tend not to be visceral enough these days, like most engines the emission rules have muted them. Plus they can never make a noise good enough to satisfy true audi performance heads. Imagine a noise through the speakers only to open a window to be met with the diesel death rattle, seriously????
Was it not also dieselgate that forced Audi out of LeMans?

Don’t know, I think they could possibly sound alright...



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cuke2u

Registered User
Yes they can, but that's not the point, like any modern car if you take away those devices that reduce emissions, and also silencers, even a 2cv might sound good. But a petrol engine will always be better than an oil burner.
 

SMI77

Australia
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/audi-a8-59773
EBC UK advise these 2 hybrid models also take the same brake pad as the S4/S5.
With the petrol engine, Audi appear to have de-tuned it somewhat, because mild-hybrid gives more kw/hp as the engine is relieved of ancillaries, converted to electrical power, which formerly robbed the engine of power and efficiency.

Fully aware of the massive knowledge Audi gained when they ran their Le Mans type TDI hybrid WEC programme, but a S4 oil-burner. Yuk???
 

Daggerit

Registered User



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NevMan

Well known member
Yes they can, but that's not the point, like any modern car if you take away those devices that reduce emissions, and also silencers, even a 2cv might sound good. But a petrol engine will always be better than an oil burner.

Mate, in a few years it will be all electric with fake interior sound and nothing externally
 
Mate, in a few years it will be all electric with fake interior sound and nothing externally
Yep and I am dreading it personally. If I couldnt wait to give a Tesla P85 back im not sure something cheaper is going to excite me either. Its going to happen though so just going to have to accept it!
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Mate, in a few years it will be all electric with fake interior sound and nothing externally
I know, I know, however I am not one for noisy exhausts anyway. I don't mind it if it's all electric though, Tesla like instant torque sort of appeals. Definately a wolf in sheeps clothing...
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Maybe this diesel S4/S5 thing is for the UK only? Punishment for Brexit?
I would have thought having two production lines,one for the UK and one for the rest of world, would be somewhat troublesome..
 

Zippytoo

Registered User
Thinking about when details might be released, one way or the other, I wonder whether the Geneva motor show in March is a possibility? Obviously builds would be quite a time after a reveal but here's hoping anyway (probably in vain!).
 

cuke2u

Registered User
But still nothing in the motoring press or any well sourced german forum, which would be hard to believe they wouldn't know. Just cannot find any information other than here and the two dealerships referred too.
Most odd...
 

Thundercliffe81

Registered User
Thinking about when details might be released, one way or the other, I wonder whether the Geneva motor show in March is a possibility? Obviously builds would be quite a time after a reveal but here's hoping anyway (probably in vain!).

Isn't a bit of a shameful band aid though? Will they actually 'showcase' or just ship them over?


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SMI77

Australia
Unfortunately it seems that makers are having difficulties with petrol engines in SUV's meeting the emission targets. I know the simple answer to that one though ;-)
...ahh, someone with commonsense. just get rid of SUVs?

I would have thought having two production lines, one for the UK and one for the rest of world, would be somewhat troublesome..
Can't think of any other RHD country that would want them, although history dictates Audi Aust & commonsense in the same sentence...
Audi would have to be convinced the profitability is there.
 

Daggerit

Registered User
In terms of the production lines, they’ll just do them on the same like I would say. US market cars have different equipment fitted in terms of lights and other bits so don’t know why they couldn’t just pop in different equipment on the same line.


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SMI77

Australia
Get what you mean. Headlights are one thing, an engine is totally different. Sure, easy to source the V6 3.0 hybrid 45/50 TDI from the A8, then A6, and the ancillaries are probably interchangeable, but Audi still has to spend time & money installing it into the smaller S4/S5 body. Do they have to move things around to fit it in. Does it require different suspension or geometry. Modifications then have to be tested & TUV approval = $$$'s.
 

Daggerit

Registered User
Get what you mean. Headlights are one thing, an engine is totally different. Sure, easy to source the V6 3.0 hybrid 45/50 TDI from the A8, then A6, and the ancillaries are probably interchangeable, but Audi still has to spend time & money installing it into the smaller S4/S5 body. Do they have to move things around to fit it in. Does it require different suspension or geometry. Modifications then have to be tested & TUV approval = $$$'s.

True, but it’s not like they only have one engine option for the A4, so they obviously have the capability of organising different engines/suspension setups/etc. on the same line.


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cuke2u

Registered User
Get what you mean. Headlights are one thing, an engine is totally different. Sure, easy to source the V6 3.0 hybrid 45/50 TDI from the A8, then A6, and the ancillaries are probably interchangeable, but Audi still has to spend time & money installing it into the smaller S4/S5 body. Do they have to move things around to fit it in. Does it require different suspension or geometry. Modifications then have to be tested & TUV approval = $$$'s.
I expect the front subframe to be different and the suspension loadings as a diesel engine tends to be heavier, plus the ecu and exhaust.
Plus, and a rather big plus, why are there no reports of S4's being tested with this, allegedly, diesel engine? No manufacturer would ever release a car without a testing regime on roads or, as they tend to do with their sport test mules, at the Nordschleife race track. None would just stick another lump in it and hope it goes would they...
 
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cuke2u

Registered User
I know what is fact and what is fiction...
 

SMI77

Australia
Of more realistic relevance is that the S6,S7 & S8 do not have diesel engines, whereas the A6, A7 & A8 all have the new 45/50 TDI V6 mild-hybrid motor.
It would appear to be more logical to replace A4/A5 TDI engines with the new generation.
S & RS models are part of Audi-Sport, and it appears there aren't any tractor motors in their line-up.
 

Evil Derboy

Registered User
Of more realistic relevance is that the S6,S7 & S8 do not have diesel engines, whereas the A6, A7 & A8 all have the new 45/50 TDI V6 mild-hybrid motor.
It would appear to be more logical to replace A4/A5 TDI engines with the new generation.
S & RS models are part of Audi-Sport, and it appears there aren't any tractor motors in their line-up.

S5 and SQ7 were both diesels.... but I agree. As I’ve said previously. I just can’t see this happening. It would be marketing suicide.
 
As long as the power is there, i dont see a problem. Plus the SQ7 and old shape SQ5 are diesels.

Besides, I can't afford an S model so I won't lose too much sleep over this anyway :laughing:
As an S5 owner I would not have a diesel one regardless of power mate!
 

SMI77

Australia
S5 and SQ7 were both diesels....
To clarify, I was referring to Audi's current MLB platform line-up, so the S5 is not TDI. In fact, I am having difficulty researching that it ever had TDI.
SQ7 - its an SUV so not relevant, but fully aware that they are ****** quick (been in one).
Actually Audi had a working RS5 TDI Prototype in 2014.
 

jdp1962

Grumpy Old Man
To clarify, I was referring to Audi's current MLB platform line-up, so the S5 is not TDI. In fact, I am having difficulty researching that it ever had TDI.
SQ7 - its an SUV so not relevant, but fully aware that they are ****** quick (been in one).
Actually Audi had a working RS5 TDI Prototype in 2014.
I suspect the earlier post should have read SQ5, not S5.
 

Evil Derboy

Registered User
I suspect the earlier post should have read SQ5, not S5.

Correct. I meant to say SQ5. The point was to illustrate that contrary to the previous post Audi Sport have had diesel cars in their line up before.

I still don’t beleive they will drastically change the engine type midway through a current production model though especially given recent events (latest SQ5 launched with petrol, dieselgate etc).
 
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Thundercliffe81

Registered User
I wonder if actual Audi-Sport Reps from Audi UK read these forums. It seems they provide cars off of estimations and charts rather than actually listening to the buyers haha.


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There was always talk a diesel SQ5 for this generation would appear later but those articles never said if it would go side by side or replace the petrol. So whilst I'm still doubting this change maybe that same diesel engine will go in the S4 and S5. It is odd not to hear anything about this in the motoring press though like a few others have said
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Correct. I meant to say SQ5. The point was to illustrate that contrary to the previous post Audi Sport have had diesel cars in their line up before.

I still don’t beleive they will drastically change the engine type midway through a current production model though especially given recent events (latest SQ5 launched with petrol, dieselgate etc).
Diesels may well be suited for a less than aerodynamic sporty SUV though, as with all that metal making a petrol engine to work within the emission standards will be a struggle, if not impossible...
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I wonder if actual Audi-Sport Reps from Audi UK read these forums. It seems they provide cars off of estimations and charts rather than actually listening to the buyers haha.


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It seems Audi aren't listening to anyone, their current business model just doesn't seem to make any sense. They've messed up with the A4 facelifts, possibly two versions, they've gone their own way with the 150ps engine and made it a 2.0l instead of using the 1.5 which was built to the new testing regime. They've dropped any manual gearboxed versions in the usa, much to the misconception there are many over there who still want a manual stick. I don't know who is in charge of audi these days but they do not appear to be car people..
 

Thundercliffe81

Registered User
It seems Audi aren't listening to anyone, their current business model just doesn't seem to make any sense. They've messed up with the A4 facelifts, possibly two versions, they've gone their own way with the 150ps engine and made it a 2.0l instead of using the 1.5 which was built to the new testing regime. They've dropped any manual gearboxed versions in the usa, much to the misconception there are many over there who still want a manual stick. I don't know who is in charge of audi these days but they do not appear to be car people..

Yeah it's changed quite a lot hasn't it?


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cuke2u

Registered User
I guess their emphasis appears to be on the technology, but even when they produce such lovely interiors they're still not listening...
 

Thundercliffe81

Registered User
I guess their emphasis appears to be on the technology, but even when they produce such lovely interiors they're still not listening...

Yeah there was a definite bump in interior quality and technology 3 years ago. Even more so now. But if we're being honest, the B9 tech had a lot of bugs. I had entire MMI unit replaced after 3 months of ownership and there's countless other build quality issues. They seem to putting way too much stress on themselves too with release dates and getting new models out. Seems quicker than the production lines can handle.

Marketing is on fire but pointless if you can't follow through. I'd say the emission restrictions have thrown a spanner in an already stressed production line.


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cuke2u

Registered User
Yes only they know the real impact of the emissions scandal and having the boss arrested and thrown in jail. On top of the new testing regime this all must have had a massive impact. Having said that they aren't always seen to be helping themselves in the manner they've handled the A4 facelift and ordering. That fiasco hasn't won them any friends...
 
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