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Have you heard the S4/S5 rumour...

LeMans Jan 19, 2019

  1. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia

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    What happened when you met a tuned S4. But agreed a tuned new TDI with EPC will go like a cut snake.

    The SQ7 that I have looked under the bonnet, sat in for a ride & have Scott & his wife drive past our house regularly has the non-fake V8 sound (gorgeous in 'sport'), because it is a 4.0 V8 TDI quattro. It is a big lump of SUV, but that 900nm is something else.
     
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  3. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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  4. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    I expect you've read the thread in the A3 8v forum but unfortunately Audi, as is usual, aren't very forthcoming...
     
  5. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Haven't met a tuned one, although I'd say the b8.5 s4 I raced a long while back prob was as that pulled away from me not by that much but decisively enough.

    The b9 one I raced kept up with it to silly speeds, but bare in mind this wasnt a drag more of a motorway skirmish.

    The s cars going diesel is good news for me as I want an a7 next but not the 50tdi as that won't be an upgrade in terms of performance.

    I'm so impressed with the v6 tdis ability to blend perfect economy with stonking performance, so the new s7 with a tune should be a belter.
     
  6. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    The new s5 will prob be slightly heavier than the outgoing one with the heavy v6 diesel.

    However it's not really down on power by much?

    And 200nm extra torque. I'm sure it will outrun the petrol? It's hard to say..

    If my current a4 is keeping with s4 the new s diesel should in theory be faster, an extra odd 30bhp plus instant torque from the electric assistance should close the gap on the petrol.

    But I know petrols have a higher rpm band etc so will be interesting
     
  7. Simonwhite2000

    Simonwhite2000 840i GC

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    Hate this phrase but in the real world the new S5 will feel faster due to all that instant torque.
     
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  8. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Plus similar peak power figures.

    Still wish they offered both the petrol and diesel in the same way the 340i and 335d are offered from bmw.

    Wonder why they can't get the petrol to meet the wltp targets.

    Ironic really that the 'dirty' diesel has met the target but the petrol hasn't
     
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  9. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Porsche can get their engines to meet wltp legislation and it is only heresay that Audi can't...
     
  10. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    The "W" in WLTP stands for World.
    If Audi can put the new 2.9 hybrid petrol engine in RoW, except Europe, then its just laziness and misguided thinking on their part.
     
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  11. K96

    K96 Registered User

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    I can see a big drop in S model sales now....I reckon Audi will regret this quite a lot.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
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  13. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    Can't be tuned, ECU's locked down in S cars.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  14. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    Yh the stats show it’s slower from 0-60 than the old one . I don’t know About Diesels I’ve Raced 335d and 435D x drive in my S4 and left them for dead both on a roll and starting start. Look at YouTube videos To see the acceleration difference the S4 B9 is 4-5 secs quicker than a 335D x drive 0-200 kph.
     
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  15. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    Two vids to see the difference shows higher torque from a diesel doesn’t mean it’s quicker .
     
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  16. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Interesting, although bare in mind the 335d is meant to have 306 or 316bhp 630nm?

    The new s5 will have 347 plus an electric compressor so it's hard comparing it to the 335d which is a straight 6 twin turbo

    I've raced stock 335ds and have always edged past them.

    The tuned 335ds are something else though.

    Maybe we should arrange something? Where are u based lol jk
     
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  17. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    The tuned one I had a skirmish with was the old shape, b8 sorry not b8.5

    Had the old style lights

    That notably pulled away from me
     
  18. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Audi also under quote their 0 60 times, I'm sure it will do it in less, either way it should atleast match the petrol, anyway time will tell.. We won't be waiting too long
     
    NevMan likes this.
  19. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    Lol 335Ds I agree are still good cars. I just don’t see why Audi are doing a Diesel S car when bmw Have the 335d and 340i which caters to peoples different choices. Lots of ppl bought an S car specifically for it being a petrol.
     
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  20. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Yeah exactly, if anything they should have copied bmw and offered both.

    I guess some relief is is that the tech has been borrowed from the sq7

    And trust me even in the form my a4 is in it is a great engine, so with extra power and electric assistance I can see this being a hit.
     
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  21. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    Guess you never know... but one thing may sway people towards BMW m340i or C43 is the lack of sound. You only have to go on YouTube or Instagram to see noisy S cars is appealing to a lot of people .
     
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  22. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Petrol also suits the size of the s4, s5

    700nm or near to that amount quoted on my tune feels epic, but in all honestly u don't need that much torque for most people's needs. For me I love it, but for others like your self, a v6 petrol makes a lot more sense especially in its more involving power delivery.

    The new v6 s5 makes more sense in the sq5, a7 and a6 though.. They are genuinely heavy big cars
     
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  23. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    I think the new m340i is evenly matched to the s4 in every way, maybe even the interior too.

    The current c class Inc the amg I've sat in don't feel up to the same high quality interior the a4 has.. I don't get all the hype.

    It looks flashy but in some places it just doesn't feel like a proper Mercedes, cheap and plasticy parts.

    Even the new a class out does it, that's a stunning interior.
     
    Chris S 1245 likes this.
  24. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    The New M340i is very tempting but I’m probably gonna buy a Used 2017/18 Rs3 as my next car. Love the 5 cylinder sound .
     
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  25. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Yeah, baby r8 honestly, even better sound than the s4. I think the s4 sounds better than the rs4 even..

    But I've seen an rs4 in action and the sound did grow on me a bit.. In the videos the s4 sounds better it's weird
     
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  26. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    I agree it’s a weird One I think my S4 sounds better at Idle but not sure once their both rolling . From videos I think the Rs4 sounds better once it’s rolling. But I’ve always preferred bmw Inline 6s Over the Audi V6 petrol sound. Just something about it.
     
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  27. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    Agreed, the inline 6s have an exotic kind of sound.

    But overall Audi have done really well with the current s4,s5, best sounding s car in my opinion.

    Rs4 there's not enough videos online to give the real life sound justice.
     
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  28. Chris S 1245

    Chris S 1245 Registered User

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    Yes I agree on that I’ve only Seen 1 B9 Rs4 on the road so they are quite rare. Gonna be interesting to see the New V6 Tdi and how it compares to BMW Diesels. Have a lot of friends who won’t touch an Audi Diesel but love the 335d engine . I have to admit it sounds pretty good for a Diesel engine.
     
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  29. syed123

    syed123 Registered User

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    The v6 tdi is the most reliable engine Audi make according to the technician I met at the dealers recently.

    A friend has a 335d and his is smooth but not as smooth as mine, it's also a bit noiser but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing as it sounds really good.

    Almost a bark like sound.

    Mine just makes a whooshing and humming sound, so not much in it there.

    The new v6 tdi on paper outmuscles the straight 6 diesel from bmw though on power and torque.

    Think about it, 347bhp, 700nm with the tech borrowed from the sq7

    That's a lot more torque and power than the stock 335d with the new sq7 tech.
     
  30. LeMans

    LeMans Registered User

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    Petrol versions of A6 now on configurator... Black Edition 55 TFSI quattro S tronic 340ps. Tempting.
     
  31. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Yup agreed, point very much missed and given VAG's track record with diesel emissions who'd want a oil burner anyway. As some have also stated a diesel engine will be totally unsuited for their driving...
     
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  32. Gio G

    Gio G Registered User

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    I fully understand S6 and S7 getting the diesel treatment, as they never really sold big volumes and suits the car. However for a mid-size coupe, which sold in plenty of numbers (especially lease deals) I think this is a miss. We have to wait until it comes out to fully pass judgement. The headlining torque figure is much higher than the current RS5, so it will pin you to the seat initially, then run out of steam...
     
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  34. Dippy

    Dippy Registered User

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    So that means that the 3.0 TFSI did pass WLTP? And thus the decision to use a 3.0 TDI in the S4/S5 is not technical but strategic?
     
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  35. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia

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    "new 2.9 hybrid petrol engine" - are you referring to the not-new Audi 3.0 V6 single turbo in S4/S5 or the also not-new Porsche 2.9 V6 twin turbo in the RS4/RS5? The Audi engine is currently undergoing hybridisation, but not the Porsche motor, as yet.

    Do not pretend to be any form of expert, but are Euro emissions & fuel consumption more stringent than WLTP?
    WLTP commenced Sept '17, with an update in 2020.
    Euro 6c commenced 2018, with Euro 6d in 2019/20 and then Euro 6e in 2021. Suggestions are that Euro 7 might come into around 2025, by when it is likely that a number of European cities (such as Paris, Madrid and Athens) will have moved to Ultra Low Emission Zones and/or diesel bans.

    There appear to be different classes, so Porsche may be in another class to Audi.

    https://www.route-one.net/articles/Environment/Euro_7_is_coming__But_when_
    https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/econ...-wltp-can-you-trust-the-new-fuel-economy-test
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  36. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia

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    That was in reference to an A6, not "S" model. The S6 & S7 Rest Of World get the RS4/RS5 engine. The SQ5 type TDI is slated for S4/S5.
     
  37. Zippytoo

    Zippytoo Registered User

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    This is a guess: I don’t profess to know different. However, I suspect it’s at least as much to do with Audi knowing that if they took the petrol route, 354bhp would no longer be quite enough: they’d have to closely match the C43 and m340i outputs to sell an updated petrol S4/5. BUT in so doing they simply weren’t able to make it WLTP compliant. An extra 30-40bhp doesn’t sound much but 10% extra may have ended up being a stretch too far, in the same way that the A4 1.4 petrol engine was canned in favour of a similar output, detuned 2.0 petrol. As said elsewhere, that may have left them with a short to medium term choice of switching to diesel, or simply not having an S4/5 at all. And the halo effect / extra sales won out, with the sales pitch focusing on extra torque and better consumption (an argument that will clearly fall flat with some).
     
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  38. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Euro 6 was introduced in 2014-15 for all cars, under the wltp and rde tests the engines are still Euro 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards I think we should, with respect, keep to what facts we know and not place in unknowns that Audi have been unable to get their petrol engines through the new tests. Which is currently wltp and rde for the EU...
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  39. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Just to add fuel to the fire I contacted Audi about devil's engines being fitted to 'S' vehicles and this is their reply:
    "Thank you for your recent email regarding our S models.

    I have spoken to our Product Marketing Department on your behalf and they have confirmed there is currently no information that the S4/5/6/7 will be powered by diesel engines. However, as model changes are often kept confidential until officially launched, Audi UK, as the importer, is not always aware of exact details or release dates.

    Once any information is announced to the public, all details will be available on our website www.audi.co.uk and via our network of Audi Centres.

    I can also advise that we do not usually hear anything regarding model updates until week 28, which is approximately 8 July 2019 for the model year vehicles."
     
  40. Baj257

    Baj257 Registered User

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  41. Daggerit

    Daggerit Registered User

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    That’s unbelievable. So the marketing department don’t even know which models and details have been released then. Cracking job guys. Bunch of total morons...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  42. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    Audi UK clearly don’t have a clue....

    There is already an official Audi Press Release on the diesel going into the S6 & S7 models.

    You can read it here

    Note the final paragraph on the RoW engines. This is what’s ****** me off......
     
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  43. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Did they not state that as often as not they themselves are not necessarily kept informed though. However I do fully intent to reply to them that the knowledge of the S6 and s7 having a devil's engine has already been released to the media and send them that link...
     

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