Haldex Gen 2 upgrade on (8P) S3???

[jonnyc]

Hey

Just wandering if anyone on here has any experience of the Haldex Gen 2 upgrade fitted to a new S3..

I was under the impression that the S3 has a slightly different Haldex unit to the other Quattro A3's so this is specifically a question for anyone that has it fitted to an S3..

How much difference does it really make to the handling?

I have heard that it really brings the car to life, so any feedback would be great!

Thanks

Jonny

 

[Rabbit222]

Been wanting to ask this for a while now...it seems that all that it does is control the wheel bias. Send more power to the rear wheels or more to the front...if that makes any sense. Its pretty expensive too!

 

[Dandle]

The haldex unit is the same as other A3s the S3 gets nothing special. Although someone did post that the new facelift A/S3s have a revised haldex unit.

 

[wolfbane1967]

A friend of mine has it on his R32-07.

You can feel it more if you drive active on a race track,it doesent understear so much.Mabe moore for those who drive the car on race tracks often.

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[jamiekip]

Hmmmm sounds pretty good to me!

 

[DeckedS3]

I had this on my R32, mine was a gen 1 haldex.
It basically gives you a little more confidence round the twisties. It doesn't turn it into RWD monster or anything like that.
It seems to kick in sooner and remain engaged under hard acceleration, particularly when it's wet. I'd expect the gen 2 to be very similar.

 

[phantom]

£700 isn't cheap, but if I had it spare I'd have one straight away

Yep i priced them up today, £650 to the door or £708 fitted was the best i found.

I really want one , but i think it's maybe £200 over priced , but the price is the price.

I think i will get one though.

p

 

[Pluto]

A lot of the marketing info states that the revised controller helps with off the line acceleration , I wonder if it really does ... does it take away the nasty pre-load to the rear Diff ??

 

[aiculedtzu]

As far as i know the Haldex Gen2 unit is the same for 8P A3/S3, but the S3 has different settings (software).

This is the reason why i didn't buy one yet. I'll wait for someone with an 8P S3 to give a proper review so that i won't be a guinea pig, again

 

[Dandle]

As far as i know the Haldex Gen2 unit is the same for 8P A3/S3, but the S3 has different settings (software).

The software is the same as is the haldex unit. Theres no mention anywhere of the S3 having different software apart from S3 owners on various forums. It doesnt need better software from the factory anyway because it acts more agressively in the S3 anyway due to the higher power.

 

[DeckedS3]

The software is the same as is the haldex unit. Theres no mention anywhere of the S3 having different software apart from S3 owners on various forums. It doesnt need better software from the factory anyway because it acts more agressively in the S3 anyway due to the higher power.

It's not software (well it's not on the gen 1)
With the upgraded units there are slightly different sized "holes" that oil is squeezed into, similar to hydrolics IIRC.
Forgive me if the gen 2 is different!

 

[Macs]

I have the Gen 2 on my 8P S3.
Installed it about 9 months ago.

I bought the Gen II Unit and the control cables with a switch that allows you to change between 3 settings: Normal, Sport and Race.

The big difference is not how much torque it send to the rear wheels given that even the standard unit, under some circumstances, can give a full lock splitting torque 50/50 front/rear. This torque transfer can reach, dynamically (i.e. counting the wheight transfers during aggressive driving), a 100% torque to the rear.

The REAL difference is when and at what speed the torque transfers are applied. In Race mode the system does not need to feel a slip between front and rear axle to transfer the torque. I acts proactively based on how fast you drop the accelerator.
On track days you really feel the difference, if you have sway bars and you add the gen II then "understeer" becomes a word you'll never pronounce again.

I reallydon't know if it makes a difference in normal day driving given that I am too scared of other people and I do not drive aggressively on public roads. But during track days it rocks.

Tomorrow it will be on race again for a two-day track-day at Misano (Italy).

If you have any question I will be more than happy to answer.

Ciao!

 

[Dandle]

It's not software (well it's not on the gen 1)
With the upgraded units there are slightly different sized "holes" that oil is squeezed into, similar to hydrolics IIRC.
Forgive me if the gen 2 is different!

Are you sure about that? The hpp controller is just a control unit which plugs into the haldex unit with plugs. All it does it change the rate at which the unit closes the clutch pack, normally more agressively to transfer more power aft quicker. Generation 1 haldex is exactly that there arent different versions of it it for different cars same as there arent for gen 2(except pre-X which Volvo and others used). To get these units to act more agressively is just a software tweak but haldex dont tweak them for different applications(all the gen 1 units are the same, same as all gen 2 units are) hence HPP having a market.

 

[Dandle]

I have the Gen 2 on my 8P S3.
Installed it about 9 months ago.

I bought the Gen II Unit and the control cables with a switch that allows you to change between 3 settings: Normal, Sport and Race.

The big difference is not how much torque it send to the rear wheels given that even the standard unit, under some circumstances, can give a full lock splitting torque 50/50 front/rear. This torque transfer can reach, dynamically (i.e. counting the wheight transfers during aggressive driving), a 100% torque to the rear.

The REAL difference is when and at what speed the torque transfers are applied. In Race mode the system does not need to feel a slip between front and rear axle to transfer the torque. I acts proactively based on how fast you drop the accelerator.
On track days you really feel the difference, if you have sway bars and you add the gen II then "understeer" becomes a word you'll never pronounce again.

I reallydon't know if it makes a difference in normal day driving given that I am too scared of other people and I do not drive aggressively on public roads. But during track days it rocks.

Tomorrow it will be on race again for a two-day track-day at Misano (Italy).

If you have any question I will be more than happy to answer.

Ciao!

Your car came with haldex gen 2. You are talking about the uprated HPP control unit for gen 2 haldex.

 

[Macs]

Your car came with haldex gen 2. You are talking about the uprated HPP control unit for gen 2 haldex.

Of course I am....

Hpp gen II. the one with the blue cover...

 

[DeckedS3]

Are you sure about that? The hpp controller is just a control unit which plugs into the haldex unit with plugs. All it does it change the rate at which the unit closes the clutch pack, normally more agressively to transfer more power aft quicker. Generation 1 haldex is exactly that there arent different versions of it it for different cars same as there arent for gen 2(except pre-X which Volvo and others used). To get these units to act more agressively is just a software tweak but haldex dont tweak them for different applications(all the gen 1 units are the same, same as all gen 2 units are) hence HPP having a market.

There is a control unit yes. But HPA modified these simply by replacing the oil lines within. No software upgrade on the unit at all. They even had the unit locked on when braking.

 

[DeckedS3]

OK, having a read there must be a tweak but I'm sure I've read on vortex it's the inners that are changed. http://www.hpamotorsports.com/haldex.htm

 

[cooni]

even with the upgraded part, torque split is NEVER more than 50% to the rear.
its just simply impossible. the front is always permanently engaged. the most you can do is also completely engage the rear resulting in 50/50.

 

[mitch78]

:thumbsup:

 

[Deleted member 21388]

Ok so if you have / fit the haldex Gen 2 unit or the upgraded HPP controller, how does this work with the standard Audi traction control - which in my eyes just wants to cut the power and fight the good work of the haldex.

Richard

 

[phantom]

The HPP controller is NOT just a software upgrade ( like a remap ) it has upgraded mechanical parts/valves in it also!

p

 

[Pluto]

Question is , does this help with the launch off the line at a drag race. The standard set up just boggs like a sh!t ... it's so unlike the gen 1 system found in the 8L S3 . With launch control , you can get the 8L spinnin all 4 wheels off the line ..with some sideways motion.

 

[sakkie69]

Have you mailed Haldex and asked them if it makes a difference? They are normally quite quick on the response.

 

[nicks3]

Was there ever a difinitive answer on this? Is it worth doing on a facelift S3 and if so why?

 

[Macs]

even with the upgraded part, torque split is NEVER more than 50% to the rear.
its just simply impossible. the front is always permanently engaged. the most you can do is also completely engage the rear resulting in 50/50.

If you look at the system in a STATIC way, what you say is somewhat true (speaking of motion and not torque).

But DYNAMICALLY, when wheight transfers are involved, you CAN have 100% torque applied to the rear wheels.

Remember that torque is not "seeing the wheel spinning"...

Was there ever a difinitive answer on this? Is it worth doing on a facelift S3 and if so why?

You can see my answer some posts ago. For me (and for how I use the car) it is one of the best mods I have made on the car.

Be aware that on the latest S3 (production from september 2008 on) there is no longer the genII, but what they call the gen IV that is a completely different control unit and in no way is compatible with the HPP for genII.
As far as I know, Haldex is in the process of producing an HPP for the genIV but it is not yet ready.
Be sure to double check what Haldex generation you have on your car.

 

[tdisportuk]

dont want to sound like a complete idiot (even thought i know i will after this question!) lol but what is a haldex?! i tried to wiki it but i didnt really gain anything from it

 

[Dandle]

But DYNAMICALLY, when wheight transfers are involved, you CAN have 100% torque applied to the rear wheels.

You can only have more torque at the rear if the front isn't making use of it, as power is tapped from the front diff to give to the haldex unit. 100% rear torque transfer is only possible if the front wheels have no grip at all.

dont want to sound like a complete idiot (even thought i know i will after this question!) lol but what is a haldex?! i tried to wiki it but i didnt really gain anything from it

Haldex is the company that make the AWD coupling in the A3, it controls and delivers power to the rear wheels.

 

[tdisportuk]

oh ok now i understand, nice n simple! thanks dandle

 

[tcardio]

i'm sure this is old news but Gen IV is available

 

[PiotrT]

Are you sure ?

 

[Macs]

Are you sure ?

I confirm. The gen IV HPP is available both as a standalone and with the cabled switch.

Haldex is also working on a remote control to switch between the three modes.

 

[S3GG]

I was wondering about this haldex uprgrade and asked a local speedshop about it and said that it might create the similar problems with the 8L upgrade, broken diffs that cant handle increased hp... That's a risk I'm willing to take soon, not interested in gunning it from a standstill for donuts but hopefully it won't budge under hard straight line acceleration, I've already gone through a clutch and a flywheel and had to detune my ecu chipping to be safe, there werent upgraded clutch kits at that time... early 2007. Quiafe have made upgraded front diffs wonder if they'll make for the aft.

 

[tcardio]

I was wondering about this haldex uprgrade and asked a local speedshop about it and said that it might create the similar problems with the 8L upgrade, broken diffs that cant handle increased hp... That's a risk I'm willing to take soon, not interested in gunning it from a standstill for donuts but hopefully it won't budge under hard straight line acceleration, I've already gone through a clutch and a flywheel and had to detune my ecu chipping to be safe, there werent upgraded clutch kits at that time... early 2007. Quiafe have made upgraded front diffs wonder if they'll make for the aft.

I'll add my 0.02. THe local speedshop is wrong. Call NIK at HPA in Canada. HGP can also be called. Install the correct Haldex model depending on your version. Install the DSG flash and ECU flash all together. The car is a monster after the BIG tune! In addtion, install the HPA motormount as well. Very minimal vibration under 1000 rpm.

 

[Rabbit222]

I have this unit installed on my vehicle and love it! I normally keep it on Sport and switch the Race mode when I launch hard from the line. My mates will attest to it, I make the rear wheels break traction!

 

[S3GG]

I'll add my 0.02. THe local speedshop is wrong. Call NIK at HPA in Canada. HGP can also be called. Install the correct Haldex model depending on your version. Install the DSG flash and ECU flash all together. The car is a monster after the BIG tune! In addtion, install the HPA motormount as well. Very minimal vibration under 1000 rpm.

Thanks for the motor mount referenceTc gonna check with them, definitely like that upgrade, they make a nice set of brake lines as well, I have the 6 speed manual, I guess the dsg and ecu flash are the software for the system. Gonna look into an upgraded clutch I dont like clunking noise but will deal with extra pedal pressure no prob. gonna check some threads for different choices. Like the idea of spinnin' those rear tires a bit! Asphalt is generally slippery here as well that'll definitely help the tranny... Been told to stick to 18'' s in Greece cause of road quality maybe going to powder coat my stock rims. Got solar orange so i'm between dark bronze, dark silver, or matt black... bbs black ck's with silver lip look nice on a thread I saw though. Was wondering about botticelli iii's but its risky aesthetically and expensive. Here's a little video I made in early 2007 for the Gumball people approaching Athens at the time... intentionally reasonable driving for the purpose of direction sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1nsokJmZIw

 

[JeffY]

Gonna look into an upgraded clutch I dont like clunking noise but will deal with extra pedal pressure no prob. gonna check some threads for different choices.

Apperently you can install the Sachs performance clutch but reuse a few of the parts from the orginal clutch which will give you the same feel as the original clutch. Something to think about.