Golf GTI or A3 Equivalent

[julians]

yes, drove it before buying it, it wasnt dull on the test drive, I think its dull because you realise you've plumbed the cars depths and found its actually not very deep, whereas in an exciting car, you keep finding more out about its character the more you push/drive.

Its fine , it does most of what I want out of a car at the moment, being exciting would be the icing on the cake, I bought it as a tool to do a job, and it does that job well, but I can see its shortcomings and they are mainly in the area of 'excitement'.

 

[Ess_Three]

yes, drove it before buying it, it wasnt dull on the test drive, I think its dull because you realise you've plumbed the cars depths and found its actually not very deep, whereas in an exciting car, you keep finding more out about its character the more you push/drive.

I know what you mean...it only took me a couple of months before I was thinking 'is this it'?' and starting to change bits looking for more.
Sadly, the car got faster, braked harder, cornered faster, looked better, sounder better, etc, etc...but never got any more exciting.

Its fine , it does most of what I want out of a car at the moment, being exciting would be the icing on the cake, I bought it as a tool to do a job, and it does that job well, but I can see its shortcomings and they are mainly in the area of 'excitement'.

True...it doesn't make it a bad car...as plainly it's not. Just not very exciting/involving - or dull to use another word.

 

[Ess_Three]

Tempted by M3s in the past but was always deterred by the running costs.

Here's food for thought:
In 3 1/2 years, my 8L S3 did 13,500 miles, used up 3 sets of tyres (1 x 17" standard tyres and 2 x 18" sets, one Pirelli ,one Avon - approx £1800 worth), wore out 3 sets of brakes (standard discs & pads, EBC Grooved discs and Greenstuff pads, Brembo GT Jr uprgade discs and pads, costing approx £1600 to replace) did an average of 21 MPG, failed it's 1st MOT on 3 word suspension bushes and a worn track rod end. Servicing costs were about £1000 over the 3 1/2 years.

My Porsche 996 C4S, In 3 1/2 years, used up 1 set of rear tyres only (Michelin Pilot sport 2s - £546 the pair...fronts getting low now), wore out 1 sets of brakes this time last year (standard discs & pads, cost approx £1000 to replace), does average of 19 MPG, doesn't wear any bushes or track rod ends. Servicing costs were about £1200 over the 3 1/2 years.

You do the maths...

E46 M3s that my friends own cost similar to mine to run and maintain....if anything, slightly less...and they get 25 MPG average.

My S3 was the most expensive car I've ever owned and run.

 

[phantom]

Now this is what i don't get/understand that a car is dull/not exciting...i don't get it?

Ive had a few " sporty " FWD " hot hatches " in the past and the S3 is no less exciting than any of them ( day to day )

I live in a large City and even if i had a 911 Turbo i wouldn't get excited nipping to Morrisons , or stuck in rush hour traffic which is where i do most of my driving.

When i do go for a B-road blast i find the S3 great , maybe not as chuckable as a Clio 182 , or it dosen't handle as well as a Pug GTI6 , but theres not much in it in the fun stakes , maybe you need a RWD for real seat of the pants thrills

p

 

[Spin140]

This has been an interesting thread, glad I nipped in for a look now

The 3 series coupe is a superb car but I would say that wouldn't I ? Nice choice.

 

[SteveTDCi]

I was in exactly the same boat just a few weeks ago, I decided to PX the wifes car, hand her the keys to the 335D coupe and buy another car sub £20k that could be used for some track events and provide fun transport for my short commute.

The ED30, GTi, Scirrocco and used 8P S3's were all in the running, I test drove all the cars with the exception of the S3 as ownership of that was fairly recent, the ED30 was an attractive prospect due to the S3 running gear.

The GTi does have a certain image that makes it very desireable IMO, it is the sort of car you could own for a few years and it will continue to look cool but having owned a Jetta made the interior too familiar, ditto the S3 plus all were on the higher siide of my budget.

The Scirrocco was ruled out due to its high price once leather is factored into the equation.

I don't know wether I dare on here but what the hell - another marmite car, have you considered a ...

3 door BMW 130i,
260+ bhp
3.0 litre petrol 6 cyl
197g co2
30+ mpg
0-60 = 5.9secs
Max - 155mph.

Most importantly great bargains are out there.

I have just bought a Jun 07 8,600 mile car with every concievable extra from lthr to sat nav for £16,000, this car would have cost £32,000 new.

It sounds excellent, goes like stink and in its high spec is relatively exclusive, interior quality lies somewhere between VW and Audi.

The handling imo is far superior to the Gti and ED30's I tried and provides fantastic entertainment in the wet, just a thought ?!?

I've been looking at these too, le Mans blue + M Sport mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Spin140]

Boys - forget about it lol I have found my new love affair

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/510937.htm

Just took a look at this again, TBH its a bit pricey, my 335D with very similar spec (minus the body kit & aftermarket alloys) retailed at £41K but I paid £35K brand new.

There is no doubt though that the 335D mapped will fullfill all of your requirements, mine has been quoted at 350bhp & 720nm of torque, it pulls like nothing else I've ever driven and easily hit the indicated 160mph max on the autobahn back in september with no drama at all.

Go for it just make sure you don't pay too much, Spin

 

[PaulAr]

Here's food for thought:
In 3 1/2 years, my 8L S3 did 13,500 miles, used up 3 sets of tyres (1 x 17" standard tyres and 2 x 18" sets, one Pirelli ,one Avon - approx £1800 worth), wore out 3 sets of brakes (standard discs & pads, EBC Grooved discs and Greenstuff pads, Brembo GT Jr uprgade discs and pads, costing approx £1600 to replace) did an average of 21 MPG, failed it's 1st MOT on 3 word suspension bushes and a worn track rod end. Servicing costs were about £1000 over the 3 1/2 years.

My Porsche 996 C4S, In 3 1/2 years, used up 1 set of rear tyres only (Michelin Pilot sport 2s - £546 the pair...fronts getting low now), wore out 1 sets of brakes this time last year (standard discs & pads, cost approx £1000 to replace), does average of 19 MPG, doesn't wear any bushes or track rod ends. Servicing costs were about £1200 over the 3 1/2 years.

You do the maths...

E46 M3s that my friends own cost similar to mine to run and maintain....if anything, slightly less...and they get 25 MPG average.


My S3 was the most expensive car I've ever owned and run.

I said `thats what deterred me in the past`

Running an M3 doesnt worry me now, but did previously, thats why I even considered one earlier this year before I bought the S3.

And Ive no illusions on how much the S3 costs to run. I bought one with my eyes very much open. And cheap it aint.

One of the reasons why I chose the S3 over the M3 was purchase price.
At the time I couldnt get a decent low mile M3 with any warranty to speak of for the price of a 4 month old S3.

Even further off topic, Ive been giving serious thought to a 996 C4S next time. Superb car for the money.
mate of mine very foolishly traded his for a DB9 and he never uses the Aston, whereas the 996 was out of the garage quite regularly, i had a play in that and its a fantastic car.
If Im able to upgrade the wifes car to the main family car then I might be very tempted.

Cheers
Paul

 

[L60N]

Still on the first set of tyres after 12k, with plenty of life left.

 

[Iggu]

Good thread this. Its about finding a compromise amongst a number of factors which enthusiasts will look for in a car:

- speed
- handling
- exploitability
- comfort
- looks
- image
- depth of character
- reliability
- bang for buck
- feel

No car I know of delivers all these things to the level I'd want them. Part of the fun is trying to find one - and in some ways I hope I never find one that does the lot as that would mark the end of the quest. For now I would say that a remapped 8P S3 offers the best compromise from all the factors above which could be purchased for under £25k (which is why I bought one obviously). The E46 M3 or ED30 are the only challengers but (for me) would score slightly lower than the 8P S3 when all the above factors are taken into account. Once you get over £25k (assuming we're talking second hand) its got to be Porsche really.

 

[Amchlolor]

I like the lines but wonder how that drives, who was it who got one of these recently, was it Bowfer??

I wish.

No, I'm afraid I merely posted a picture of this very same car some weeks back.

 

[Con S3]

I thought you'd had hot hatches?
Mk3 Golf GTI? I don't think so...same with the VR6, soft and flabby. (I have a Mk3 GTI...and it's no hot hatch)




Which GTI?
Mk4? Can't be surely... they are abysmal.
Mk4 R32 was a good car...way better than the 8L S3 in the way it went.




Interior may be perceived as better - depending on your definition of 'better'. The GTI interior (Mk5) is perfect for throwing it about down a back road...something it does better than the A3.




Really?
My Audi was the most yawn-worthy car I've ever owned. Very good, very quick, good handling...but utterly devoid of any entertainment. Dull as dishwater.
Sure it was well built and had a great interior...which was just as well, as you were better off sitting in it looking at it rather than doing 100 miles at pace on back roads.

A bog standard Mk5 GTI was more fun and as quick down a backroad as my modified 8L S3.
boring the GTI wasn't...but the Audi was...

So are pretty much all current Audis...impressive yes...but boring - RS4 included.




Strange that most people would agree the Golf is a better drivers car than the A3...at the end of the day, it probably depends on where you set your expectations.

The two are very different cars...I don't see an image problem with the Golf...sadly, I do now see an image problem with Audis with people thinking that because they have 4 rings on the grille, they are in some way better than others...they seem to be bought by the BMW 3 series buyers of the new millenium...which for me, is as offputting as it gets.

FWD A3 vs Mk5 GTI...personally, I'd take the GTI, but that's for my own reasons.

Some fairly stereotypical views there dude...........(regarding the 'four ring' audi driver)

 

[PaulAr]

Some fairly stereotypical views there dude...........(regarding the 'four ring' audi driver)

Must admit, I dont get the smug AUDI driver thing.
If its is true then it has completly passed me by.
I have one, and Im not smug.

I also live in typical surburbia and there are the usual AUDIs,BMWs and 4x4s, sitting on peoples drives.
AUDI certainly dont appear to out number the rest where I live.

At the end of the day Im not in the least bothered what people think about the car i drive and their preconcived idea of me because of the badge on the back of my car.

Cheers
Paul

 

[GlasgowRangers]

Brilliant thread. I really value Ess_Three's input. Same goes for the rest of you. Very interesting.

 

[PaulAr]

Good thread this. Its about finding a compromise amongst a number of factors which enthusiasts will look for in a car:

- speed
- handling
- exploitability
- comfort
- looks
- image
- depth of character
- reliability
- bang for buck
- feel

No car I know of delivers all these things to the level I'd want them. Part of the fun is trying to find one - and in some ways I hope I never find one that does the lot as that would mark the end of the quest. For now I would say that a remapped 8P S3 offers the best compromise from all the factors above which could be purchased for under £25k (which is why I bought one obviously). The E46 M3 or ED30 are the only challengers but (for me) would score slightly lower than the 8P S3 when all the above factors are taken into account. Once you get over £25k (assuming we're talking second hand) its got to be Porsche really.

Same 3 cars I had short listed last time too, spooky.
And also been looking across at used 911s for next time...maybe.

Well put.
I could have written this myself.

Cheers
Paul
(is it time for beer yet?)

 

[Ess_Three]

Now this is what i don't get/understand that a car is dull/not exciting...i don't get it?

Ive had a few " sporty " FWD " hot hatches " in the past and the S3 is no less exciting than any of them ( day to day )

I live in a large City and even if i had a 911 Turbo i wouldn't get excited nipping to Morrisons , or stuck in rush hour traffic which is where i do most of my driving.

When i do go for a B-road blast i find the S3 great , maybe not as chuckable as a Clio 182 , or it dosen't handle as well as a Pug GTI6 , but theres not much in it in the fun stakes , maybe you need a RWD for real seat of the pants thrills

p

I guess it's down to your location and role you want the car for.
I don't live in a city.
The nearest Motorway is 100 miles away.
I don't commute - I go to work by helicopter (but that's another story!)

So for me...I take the car out for fun...hence my interests in how it drives.
If I lived in a city, I'd probably have a Merc Auto and be done with it.

 

[Ess_Three]

I said `thats what deterred me in the past`

Running an M3 doesnt worry me now, but did previously, thats why I even considered one earlier this year before I bought the S3.

Just to clear up Paul, I wasn't aiming the comments at you directly...I wouldn't want to suppose one way of the other what you can or cannot run.
I was merely making a general comment that explodes the myth that Audis are as cheap to run as VWs, and that Porsches are expensive to run.
On both counts, the accepted view is incorrect, for my circumstances.

Even further off topic, Ive been giving serious thought to a 996 C4S next time. Superb car for the money.
mate of mine very foolishly traded his for a DB9 and he never uses the Aston, whereas the 996 was out of the garage quite regularly, i had a play in that and its a fantastic car.
If Im able to upgrade the wifes car to the main family car then I might be very tempted.

Following the off-topic tangent...

They are an absolute steal now. A great car...and the only car I've never felt that I've got close to knowing well, or finding the limits of. I'm never bored of it...it still frightens me every time I get in it after a 2 week offshore spell.

To go further off topic...
My C4S is the most unreliable car I've ever owned. It leaks oil/water with alarming regularity. It's as impreactical as an impractical thing and the interior is very poor. None of which matters when you are the wrong end of a 200 mile, fast, backroad blast...I could not bare to sell it!
Just make sure any car you think about has a full warranty - preferably a Porsche Approved Wattanty.
Then it's all good.

On the plus side...my garage floor is now waterproof with all the oil / colant that's been dropped over the years!

 

[Ess_Three]

Some fairly stereotypical views there dude...........(regarding the 'four ring' audi driver)

Stereotypical they may be...but they are based on my experiences...I did have one for 3 1/2 years....and I do have eyes / ears.

Round my way especially, the image is poor...on par with the 3 Series BMW of a few years ago. And that's enough to stop me buying another just now.

 

[PaulAr]

Just to clear up Paul, I wasn't aiming the comments at you directly...I wouldn't want to suppose one way of the other what you can or cannot run.
I was merely making a general comment that explodes the myth that Audis are as cheap to run as VWs, and that Porsches are expensive to run.
On both counts, the accepted view is incorrect, for my circumstances.




Following the off-topic tangent...

They are an absolute steal now. A great car...and the only car I've never felt that I've got close to knowing well, or finding the limits of. I'm never bored of it...it still frightens me every time I get in it after a 2 week offshore spell.

To go further off topic...
My C4S is the most unreliable car I've ever owned. It leaks oil/water with alarming regularity. It's as impreactical as an impractical thing and the interior is very poor. None of which matters when you are the wrong end of a 200 mile, fast, backroad blast...I could not bare to sell it!
Just make sure any car you think about has a full warranty - preferably a Porsche Approved Wattanty.
Then it's all good.

On the plus side...my garage floor is now waterproof with all the oil / colant that's been dropped over the years!

Valued comments:icon_thumright:.

Iggu summed it up though.
Most cars involve some kind of comprimise.
With the S3 the compromises are few IMO, hence why Im a fan.

So, almost back on topic, buy an AUDI with you eyes open and you wont be disappointed.
I like the Golf, but I can see why many would prefer the A3 20T assuming its has many of the S3 attributes.

Still dont get the new `bad AUDI image`, I agree the BMW image problem is a bit old hat but I still struggle with the point of big 4x4s in the city.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Ess_Three]

Still dont get the new `bad AUDI image`, I agree the BMW image problem is a bit old hat but I still struggle with the point of big 4x4s in the city.

I don't get the point of 4x4s at all...unless you live on a farm or in the deepest highlands where roads block yearly. But that's just me...

As for the image thing:
Anytime I ever see anyone leaving their keys on a table in a pub/resteraunt with the badge showing: Audi keys.
Anytime I see Mums doing the school run and parking wherever they see fit - usually on double yellows - primarily Audis.
Mostly every time I have a car wedged in my tailgate on a dual carridgeway - Audi.
Drivers swanning around with no use of indicators visible...that'll be the Audi again.
Front foglights on in good weather...yup, you guessed it.

Might be just round my way...but they tend, as a generalisation, to be driven by a certain type.


The BMW image thing seems to have passed now, as you say.

 

[paul_brad]

just bumped into this thread, I'm considering myself either the Golf GTI or A3 2.0T sometime in the new year.

I'll be upgrading/downgrading from a 2002 S3.

Looking forward to assessing both now!

 

[dc240969]

As for the image thing:

Might be just round my way...but they tend, as a generalisation, to be driven by a certain type.

So we are a type, lm the type that driven 5 vws , gtis and R32s. The type whos after a class more than the way VW still is. l guess it just round your way.

After all your in or around the oil capital of the world.

 

[Ess_Three]

So we are a type, lm the type that driven 5 vws , gtis and R32s. The type whos after a class more than the way VW still is. l guess it just round your way.

Says it all really...
You want a 'class' up from VW. Same perception...Audi = class.
Sadly, buying a car doesn't elevate your 'class' status. The 'class' of the driver is immaterial.

After all your in or around the oil capital of the world.

There is a lot of truth in that...
There are a lot of pretentious twats in the Aberdeen area who believe that a job 'in oil' and a flash car in some way makes them better than others around them. It's sickening.

Oh, and Aberdeen was never the Oil Capital of the World...Europe maybe.
Houston is the Oil Capital of the World...
And as for Aberdeen, UK taxation and backwards thinking Councils are crippling it to the extent that Norway will soon host the Oil Capital of Europe, in my view.
Aberdeen is a toilet...I wouldn't live there for all the Audis on the planet.

You might have guessed...I'm not an Aberdonian.