gears crunching goin into 3rd

[S3MHT]

Hi, When driving my S3 hard 3rd gear always makes a crunching sound going when going up from 2nd, even with clutch all the way on the floor! All the other gears are fine and its also fine when driving slowly. Any ideas on what this is anybody??

Im wondering weather the gearbox is on its way out???

Nothing is showing up on vag com either?

any help would be grate, wondering weather to get a warranty before anything major goes wrong.

 

[jojo]

It's a common problem amongst S3's with the 2nd to 3rd gear change, which usually happens at high revs, I probably have done it around 10 times in 4 years of ownership. You coult try and change the gearbox oil which some say is a temporary cure, or invest in a powerflex dogbone mount(around £20) like I have, to stop the engine and gearbox from moving too much during gearchanges, this helped my car loads.

 

[S3MHT]

Thanks very much feel better now I know it's a common fault, How much is to get the powerflex dogbone mount fitted do you know??

I did about 4 times yesterday alone is it causing any damage to the gearbox? if im gonna be doing some sunday driving for a while till it's sorted.

thanks again

 

[monkeytrousers]

Mine does it as well, although there is a knack of avoiding it, by changing to 3rd before you get to the red line, rather than on it.

 

[S3MHT]

I do change before the red line abythink above 5k revs it seems to do it

 

[jojo]

You can change a dogbone mount on axle stands in 30 minutes with the correct tools, I did. I can't say wether the cruching of the gearbox is damaging to the gearbox, but I know my gearbox blew up last week lol.

 

[Vman]

My Xreg S3 used to do this... I had a new (standard) clutch fitted a couple of weeks ago I was expecting that when I got it back it would still crunch into 3rd but thankfully the problem has gone. I don't think it's down to the clutch I believe it's down to the gear box oil change they did. (Also had a new MAF fitted runs like new now...) (S3 is fast approaching 100K).

 

[mattyboy199]

mine did this to, i began to hold back on shifting straight away as that was when it crunched the revs drop a bit then i shifted. After a while of doing this i then began shifting as normal & it didnt do it anymore. These gearboxes i find are pretty notchy.

 

[Blunteh]

Mine does it too Ihad a TT180 years ago that always seemed to make me miss the change from 2nd to 3rd as well.... (brown pant time if overtaking... left for a split second floating in neutral).

The S3 problem seemed to go away after a 40k service (gear oil?) but is back again and I just find that I have to change my driving style to suit....

When it was serviced it has the revo trial too.. I was wondering if adjusted engine timing had an effect too (wondering if it had gotten worse once the trial software had reverted to stock settings)...

 

[mazzy]

Thanks very much feel better now I know it's a common fault, How much is to get the powerflex dogbone mount fitted do you know??

I did about 4 times yesterday alone is it causing any damage to the gearbox? if im gonna be doing some sunday driving for a while till it's sorted.

thanks again

CHANGE THE ****** DOGBONE MOUNT! cost ya round £25 supplied.

 

[S2Avant]

CHANGE THE ****** DOGBONE MOUNT! cost ya round £25 supplied.

Then change the ****** gearbox oil to remove the little bits of metal you have made when crunching the gears.

 

[S3MHT]

Ok thanks i will try that, Its booked in but i have to wait where i take it coz its so busy, as there audi specialists who dont charge a fortune, So whilkst i wait i thought i could just change the gearbox oil for now and see if that helps.

Can anyone explaine how you change the oil, were the plug is etc..

also what oil do I use??

thanks for your help

 

[S3MHT]

Also ive just noticed blunteh's comment about the revo trial, I had that to a few months back and it seems to have started after it had worn off, maybe something to check on and warn people.

 

[S3MHT]

There Doesnt seem to be miuch interest in this thread but for those of you that are, I spoke to my local audi specialist garage and they said it will be "the sync ring" (cant remember the actual name of it) and its going to cost around £600 as its labour intensive.

Just thought id keep you upto date.

 

[Adams3]

Cheers for the info, so what have you done then?? Is it sorted??

 

[S3MHT]

Not yet gonna get it booked in tomorrow will let you know what gets done and if it works etc...

 

[Blunteh]

While my S3 was in the dealers (for the replacement ECU and airbag ignotor) I asked them about this. The mechanic played with the linkages to the gearbox and has solved the problem. 1 hours labour.

 

[Roadtrain]

My S3 8L "crunch" 2nd-->3rd gear going fast (3rd gear engages, but crunches). No crunch in any other gear, in 3rd aswell going normal (nt high revs).

What have I to check exatly? I'm very worried. Thank you a lot.

PS:

Does gearbox of APY, AMK and BAM the same type? Or they are different?

 

[SamHendry]

My S3 8L "crunch" 2nd-->3rd gear going fast (3rd gear engages, but crunches). No crunch in any other gear, in 3rd aswell going normal (nt high revs).

What have I to check exatly? I'm very worried. Thank you a lot.

PS:

Does gearbox of APY, AMK and BAM the same type? Or they are different?

This thread covers most of it already. Replace standard gearbox dog bone bush for a power flex one. Replace gearbox oil.

in my case neither of them cured my 3rd gear crunch although they did help but it wasn't until I polybushed my engine mounts then problem went away.

 

[Roadtrain]

Thank you a lot.

This thread covers most of it already. Replace standard gearbox dog bone bush for a power flex one. Replace gearbox oil.

About dog bone bush, is it one only? And Powerflex maked purple/black types, or one types only? What's the best one?

About gearbox oil, what's the best one? Original Audi? Does oil needs an additive to fix some little damage too? If yes, what's the best one? A friend of mine talk to me about "Ceramic gearbox" additive brand.

in my case neither of them cured my 3rd gear crunch although they did help but it wasn't until I polybushed my engine mounts then problem went away.

So did you solve the problem changing engine supports aswell? If yes, what supports brand did you bought? Powerflex in this case too?

Thank you a lot again.

 

[SamHendry]

So did you solve the problem changing engine supports aswell? If yes, what supports brand did you bought? Powerflex in this case too?

Thank you a lot again.

I didn't buy new mounts I utilised my existing mounts. I simply purchased two part polyurethane resin and poured the resin into the mount. Do a search for more info. There is a few guides. It's a great thing to do. Cost very little to do and transforms the way the car feels imo.

 

[Roadtrain]

Ok thank you. I i translated correctly,need I next ones:

http://www.taurus.to.it/powerflex/audi/s3-8l/black-series.html

About oil, what's the best one? And need it additive? Thank you.

 

[Roadtrain]

@SamHendry @S3MHT @jojo @monkeytrousers @Vman @mattyboy199 @Blunteh @mazzy @S2Avant @Adams3

Someone of you will may read this last post after many times aren't seeing this entire topic (I saw someone of you don't login since many years) so, as recapitulation, my situation is the next one: my gearbox crunch 3rd gear running fast, but no crunch running normal. Thank's yours old post, and in particular thank's recently SamHendry posts, I learned about torsion of gearbox and engine both may cause this annoying as much as alarming problem. In addition, old gearbox oil may to be envolved aswell (my one was change "recently" from old owner, as he sayed, but I'll change it aswell).

What I don't understand exatly is:

1. About bushes, translating "dog bone bushes" I have strange result in italian, so I don't understand exatly if gearbox needs "polyurethane resins" only (as engine needs), or if "dog bone bushes" is different terms then "bushes" (so if they're synonyms or not);
2. New Powerflex gearbox and engine bushes have to be Purple or Black series? Do they may cause many vibration inside cockpit?;
3. What gearbox oil is the best? Original one or what other? In addition, does gearbox oil may need additive too? A friend of mine talked to me about "Ceramic Gearbox" (I'm in Italy, I don't know if it's common brand in other country as is it here);
   
4. About guides who wrote about SamHendry, I can't find they, may because I wrong some terms in english (I'm so poor), or because are they on different website?

Thank you All so much.

 

[SamHendry]

Someone of you will may read this last post after many times aren't seeing this entire topic (I saw someone of you don't login since many years) so, as recapitulation, my situation is the next one: my gearbox crunch 3rd gear running fast, but no crunch running normal. Thank's yours old post, and in particular thank's recently SamHendry posts, I learned about torsion of gearbox and engine both may cause this annoying as much as alarming problem. In addition, old gearbox oil may to be envolved aswell (my one was change "recently" from old owner, as he sayed, but I'll change it aswell).

What I don't understand exatly is:

1. About bushes, translating "dog bone bushes" I have strange result in italian, so I don't understand exatly if gearbox needs "polyurethane resins" only (as engine needs), or if "dog bone bushes" is different terms then "bushes" (so if they're synonyms or not);
2. New Powerflex gearbox and engine bushes have to be Purple or Black series? Do they may cause many vibration inside cockpit?;
3. What gearbox oil is the best? Original one or what other? In addition, does gearbox oil may need additive too? A friend of mine talked to me about "Ceramic Gearbox" (I'm in Italy, I don't know if it's common brand in other country as is it here);
   
4. About guides who wrote about SamHendry, I can't find they, may because I wrong some terms in english (I'm so poor), or because are they on different website?

Thank you All so much.

The poly resin is only applicable for the engine mounts. I used this thread for help: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-poly-filling-engine-mounts.255396/

 

[Roadtrain]

The poly resin is only applicable for the engine mounts. I used this thread for help: http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/how-to-poly-filling-engine-mounts.255396/

Ok thank you.

 

[Roadtrain]

Yesteraday I tried changing 2nd-->3rd with "double clutching" (as on old car with no synchronized gearbox), and it seem no crunched. I must test it again, because I wasn't fast enough to compare when changing gear without double clutching, so I can't affirm it for sure, but if double clutching "solve" problem, that means is involved a synchronizer or clutch? Thank you.

 

[danger S3]

I had the same issue that my 2nd to 3rd gear change crunched but mine was only once the gearbox had warmed up (it was fine when cold)
I tried the following (this is just what i tried and worked for me):
1. adjusted the gear linkage (no difference)
2. replaced the dogbone bush with a red powerflex one (didnt make a huge difference)
3. replaced the gearbox oil with new Audi oil (didnt make any noticable difference)
4. replaced the gearbox oil again, this time i replaced it with 'RED LINE Synthetic MT90 75W-90 GL4' (this worked well, admittedly it is now slightly notchy when the gearbox is cold but not at all crunchy at any temp.

I think the OEM Audi oil is either 75W-80 or 75W-85 so the redline stuff is slightly thicker.

anyway that's my 2p based on my experience, hope it helps.

 

[Gazwould]

Good but thick stuff the Red Line MT90 , it's in a Jap fast n furious , from 1st to 2nd gear crunch till it's warmed up .

Might change it to the lighter weight MTL version , big difference in cold viscosity .

Oe spec might be listed as a 75W90 but to avoid the poor cold shifting go to 75W80 .

 

[Roadtrain]

Anyone have any idea about "double clutching question? Thank you.

I had the same issue that my 2nd to 3rd gear change crunched but mine was only once the gearbox had warmed up (it was fine when cold)
I tried the following (this is just what i tried and worked for me):
1. adjusted the gear linkage (no difference)
2. replaced the dogbone bush with a red powerflex one (didnt make a huge difference)
3. replaced the gearbox oil with new Audi oil (didnt make any noticable difference)
4. replaced the gearbox oil again, this time i replaced it with 'RED LINE Synthetic MT90 75W-90 GL4' (this worked well, admittedly it is now slightly notchy when the gearbox is cold but not at all crunchy at any temp.

I think the OEM Audi oil is either 75W-80 or 75W-85 so the redline stuff is slightly thicker.

anyway that's my 2p based on my experience, hope it helps.

Thank you.

Did your 2nd-->3rd crunch happen on low and high RPM both when gearbox oil was cold? My one makes problem on high RPM, butI never tried with engine/gearbox cold.

 

[Gazwould]

Good but thick stuff the Red Line MT90 , it's in a Jap fast n furious , from 1st to 2nd gear crunch till it's warmed up .

Might change it to the lighter weight MTL version , big difference in cold viscosity .

Oe spec might be listed as a 75W90 but to avoid the poor cold shifting go to 75W80 .

Now I've recently learned that the oe spec is VW G 052 171 .

It isn't a 75W90 , nor a 75W85 or 75W80 but a 70W75 .

So....

 

[badger5]

Now I've recently learned that the oe spec is VW G 052 171 .

It isn't a 75W90 , nor a 75W85 or 75W80 but a 70W75 .

So....

interesting, and dissapointing that TPS supply as OE oil Castrol Syntrax 75w90 oil as "oe" offering

 

[Gazwould]

Gearbox oil understanding is worse than engine oil !

Now for my B5.5 Passat , handbook says IIRC 501.50, Haynes manual says G50 , it's one and the same with the added
G 005 000 just to be confusing .

Now this is a 75W90 GL4 .

And Fuchs recommendation is a 75W80 GL5 which I use ??

TPS confirmed 501.50 / G50 / G 005 000 has been superceded by G 052 911 and it's a GL5 ,
http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php , also confirms the GL5 .

A little confusing is Castrol's Syntrans Transaxle as it is 505.01 / G 052 911 but is a GL4+ !!

 

[Alex C]

Yesteraday I tried changing 2nd-->3rd with "double clutching" (as on old car with no synchronized gearbox), and it seem no crunched. I must test it again, because I wasn't fast enough to compare when changing gear without double clutching, so I can't affirm it for sure, but if double clutching "solve" problem, that means is involved a synchronizer or clutch? Thank you.

I ended up double declutching when my gear box was notchy - i put it down to worn synchro rings. If you rev match it correctly then there was no crunch.

 

[badger5]

my fresh built 02Q leon cupra box with Wavetrack diff is notchy/crunchy when cold for 1st to 2nd change. Fine when warmed up.
Castrol Syntrax TPS supplied gear oil 75w90

~Also the function of the wavetrack is'nt all that and the sellers of it in the uk suggest oil may be a factor..

Typical!

 

[Roadtrain]

I ended up double declutching when my gear box was notchy - i put it down to worn synchro rings. If you rev match it correctly then there was no crunch.

So you think problem are synchronizers sure, ok thank you. How much should cost fix gearbox with new ones in your opinion?

 

[snowy]

my fresh built 02Q leon cupra box with Wavetrack diff is notchy/crunchy when cold for 1st to 2nd change. Fine when warmed up.
Castrol Syntrax TPS supplied gear oil 75w90

~Also the function of the wavetrack is'nt all that and the sellers of it in the uk suggest oil may be a factor..

Typical!

that'd be a special grade of snake-oil

those things have had the occasional crunching issue since day one


go plate ?

 

[snowy]

So you think problem are synchronizers sure, ok thank you. How much should cost fix gearbox with new ones in your opinion?

it is quite easy to chip the low ratio synchro's

In the UK circa £1K for a rebuilt

 

[Roadtrain]

it is quite easy to chip the low ratio synchro's

In the UK circa £1K for a rebuilt

OK thank you.

 

[hendo#1]

I had ALL my gearbox syncros replaced last year, along with a new DMF and clutch. Was approx 1400GBP fitted.

 

[Roadtrain]

I had ALL my gearbox syncros replaced last year, along with a new DMF and clutch. Was approx 1400GBP fitted.

Did you get DMF single or double mass? And what brand? Did you change clutch pump too? Thank you.