Meant to put this in a new thread so here it is
Sorry this is long but I have read more posts and information in the last 24 hours than I ever did at school and university.
I received a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) for doing 39 in a 30. It was a fixed Gatso.
On the NIP they have a link to a website showing the photos, the certificate or calibration, the reason for the gatso siting and its official justification including photos of the site.
I am writing this as there appears to be an awful lot of cr@p and urban myth about what you can and can't get away with.
As I see it there are only a few reasons you will get away without the fine and points.
1) No offence committed - camera is inaccurate (proving that is tricky)
2) You weren't driving - (proving this is easier)
3) The camera is unlawfully sited or operated (tricky)
4) They don't send you the NIP within 17 days (14 plus 3 days leaway for post) of the offence
5) The method in which they collect the evidence is unlawful
1) I am pretty sure that I was doing between 30-35, I checked both the speedo and the GPS indicated speed on my Origin B2. In which case I was under the buffer zone of 10%+2 (that is my second arguement but more difficult to prove)
2) I was the only person in the car and am the only person on the insurance. pretty hard to deny I was driving without lying.
3) they have provided me with all the evidence that the camera is lawfully sited and that it has been calibrated. My problem here is that this camera was calibrated in July 2006. By all accounts a "large" number of cameras are require some repair to calibrate them effectively, this fact throws into doubt the accuracy of all subsequent measurements. in short, the calibration certificcate you should be interested in is the next one. still very difficult to prove and time consuming=expensive.
4) I got the NIP 6 days after the alleged offence
5) having trawled the web and even requested some extra info from one of the kind chaps on here, in my opinion your best defence is the PACE submission form on the PePiPoo website.
The premise is that the NIP and request for identity of the driver is in fact a statement. The law says that any statement that is used in evidence against you must be obtained under caution (the old "you have the right to blahblahh and anything you say may be used in evidence against you" routine).
Since the NIP is just mailed to you and you have received no caution, the evidence (i.e. my telling them I was the driver) CANNOT be legally used against you. Their case relies on this.
I have sent the dowloaded PACE form off and will wait and see
From the www.Pepipoo.com website
"After you send a PACE statement, the police will probably take one of the following approaches:
They will write or phone you saying you MUST fill the form in or you will be prosecuted for failing to provide the information required by Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988. Although some partnerships have tried, to date, we are not aware of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted for this, after they submitted a PACE statement - see dpp v Jones.
You may receive a Conditional offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and reminders.
In either case, if you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence until you receive a summons.
Keep copies of everything and if they phone you, say something like: "As I have not yet seen the evidence relating to the alleged offence including the full session video recording, it would be unreasonable in the circumstances to expect me to answer any questions". Any additional questioning should be answered with "no comment". If they leave an answer machine message, record a copy and keep it in a safe place.
They have 6 months from the date of offence to do this, so for speeding 6 months from date you were flashed + another 28 days for the S172. You may not receive the papers until after this date"
If they don't get the evidence within 6 months it times out and goes away
my opinion:
Do your homework, use the web and work within the law.
Do not ignore the NIP
will update before i get sent down....
Sorry this is long but I have read more posts and information in the last 24 hours than I ever did at school and university.
I received a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) for doing 39 in a 30. It was a fixed Gatso.
On the NIP they have a link to a website showing the photos, the certificate or calibration, the reason for the gatso siting and its official justification including photos of the site.
I am writing this as there appears to be an awful lot of cr@p and urban myth about what you can and can't get away with.
As I see it there are only a few reasons you will get away without the fine and points.
1) No offence committed - camera is inaccurate (proving that is tricky)
2) You weren't driving - (proving this is easier)
3) The camera is unlawfully sited or operated (tricky)
4) They don't send you the NIP within 17 days (14 plus 3 days leaway for post) of the offence
5) The method in which they collect the evidence is unlawful
1) I am pretty sure that I was doing between 30-35, I checked both the speedo and the GPS indicated speed on my Origin B2. In which case I was under the buffer zone of 10%+2 (that is my second arguement but more difficult to prove)
2) I was the only person in the car and am the only person on the insurance. pretty hard to deny I was driving without lying.
3) they have provided me with all the evidence that the camera is lawfully sited and that it has been calibrated. My problem here is that this camera was calibrated in July 2006. By all accounts a "large" number of cameras are require some repair to calibrate them effectively, this fact throws into doubt the accuracy of all subsequent measurements. in short, the calibration certificcate you should be interested in is the next one. still very difficult to prove and time consuming=expensive.
4) I got the NIP 6 days after the alleged offence
5) having trawled the web and even requested some extra info from one of the kind chaps on here, in my opinion your best defence is the PACE submission form on the PePiPoo website.
The premise is that the NIP and request for identity of the driver is in fact a statement. The law says that any statement that is used in evidence against you must be obtained under caution (the old "you have the right to blahblahh and anything you say may be used in evidence against you" routine).
Since the NIP is just mailed to you and you have received no caution, the evidence (i.e. my telling them I was the driver) CANNOT be legally used against you. Their case relies on this.
I have sent the dowloaded PACE form off and will wait and see
From the www.Pepipoo.com website
"After you send a PACE statement, the police will probably take one of the following approaches:
They will write or phone you saying you MUST fill the form in or you will be prosecuted for failing to provide the information required by Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988. Although some partnerships have tried, to date, we are not aware of anyone who has been successfully prosecuted for this, after they submitted a PACE statement - see dpp v Jones.
You may receive a Conditional offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and reminders.
In either case, if you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence until you receive a summons.
Keep copies of everything and if they phone you, say something like: "As I have not yet seen the evidence relating to the alleged offence including the full session video recording, it would be unreasonable in the circumstances to expect me to answer any questions". Any additional questioning should be answered with "no comment". If they leave an answer machine message, record a copy and keep it in a safe place.
They have 6 months from the date of offence to do this, so for speeding 6 months from date you were flashed + another 28 days for the S172. You may not receive the papers until after this date"
If they don't get the evidence within 6 months it times out and goes away
my opinion:
Do your homework, use the web and work within the law.
Do not ignore the NIP
will update before i get sent down....
