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Fl Rs3 stage 1-2

RS3 FUN May 16, 2020

  1. RS3 FUN

    RS3 FUN Registered User

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    I am looking to take my Rs3 from stage 1 to stage 2 with new intercooler/ down pipe which will be de cat or sports cat, I allready have a panel air filter, Tip pipe, intake pipe and on my stage 1 I got very good figures of 497 ps 697 nm.
    My questions are //

    what power figures achieved from stage 1-2

    what down pipe used sport cat or decat what do you do on Mot time with de cat

    Going from stage 1-2 was it worth any big difference performance wise.

    what cost to do stage 2
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
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  3. jaysrs4

    jaysrs4 Registered User

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    I’ve recently gone Stage 2 from Stage 1 using Forge hard pipe, Forge inlet pipe, Wagner Intercooler and Wagner Downpipe.

    I’m not altogether sure the Wagner downpipe was the best option, however it came with the intercooler and I got it for a fraction of the retail price with next to no miles on it.

    However, gains on the Stage 1 output across the rev range are substantial. Max hp on my Stage 1 map was 470hp at 5420rpm, then the car was pulling timing because of heat, you could feel it tail off.

    It’s now 510hp and holds it right to the red line and very strong. Torque is just as impressive. I’ve not got the graph to hand but it’s far better with the intercooler, makes a big difference.

    Could I extract another 10-15hp from a different down pipe? Possibly, maybe a different map could tweak it slightly, but it’s plenty fast enough now (Damn near 3 seconds to 60 no doubt) and give it 18 months I’ll be moving it on for another German chariot, so I’m not spending any more money on it.

    Difficult with costs as I didn’t buy my intercooler or downpipe new. I also had a full service, s-tronic oil and filter change, sump gasket changed. All in about 3.8k with parts.

    My advice is do it, it turns to car into another level of performance, sounds wild and you’ll struggle to find much on the road that’ll match you, let alone gap you.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  4. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    Interested to hear hoe you get on as I'm in same boat just now.

    Hoping going stage 1 to 2 isn't a waste of money vs jumping straight to stage 2

    Dont really want more noise so wasn't really wanting a down pipe but I'm interested in an octane booster map on top of stage 2 for the quarter mile days.n

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  5. VtecAbuser

    VtecAbuser Registered User

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    I recently went from Revo Stage 1 with Wagner decat DP, Unitronic turbo inlet and Leyo intake, to adding Forge intercooler and switching to Unitronic Stage 2 ECU/TCU.
    Whilst I haven't had the car on the dyno yet, the gains through my **** dyno were very noticeable and the Dragy numbers between the two confirmed that!
    I would hazard a guess that the car was somewhere around 490ish on previous set up and probably pushing as much as 540ish now (going off the gains seen on Dragy).
    Definitely a worthwhile upgrade.
     
  6. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    How much to go from 1 to 2
    What figures did your draggy say

    Would love to be able to drop to high 20 quarter mile but ive seen a few low 11s

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  7. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    Just had a quote and was just under 5k to go from stage 1 to stage 2

    Had a quite last year to go to stage2 direct and it was 3.5k. Same big company.
    Kinda regretting going stage1 first now as hadnt assumed it was just thrown away money

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  8. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    £5k to go from stage 1 to 2?! Not worth it.

    Don’t bother with downpipe. Just get the intercooler and hard-pipes and a customs tune from MRC or the like. Be half the cost.
     
  9. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    It was mrc :-(
    Downpipe is about 1k of it so a fair price

    I had assumed 1 to 2 you wouldnt have same remap type costs or have some form of stage1 benefit, but maybe wrong assumption

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  10. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    I just wouldn’t bother.

    I was driving my MRC stage 1 TTRS the other day and could barely put my foot down anywhere. Not sure I’d be able to use or need an extra 30-40hp!
     
  11. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    I had my FL RS3 from new and from 1,200 miles I went for an MRC stage 1 tune which I ran for 2 or 3 months and then upgraded to the MRC stage 2 with the switchable mapping which allows you to use octane booster/higher octane fuels. For me, the difference for the upgrade from stage 1 to stage 2 was definitely worth it and the Dragy results and Santa Pod times are pretty decent. It was possible to push the power output even further (the stock turbo on the FL car is capable of running 600ps on race fuel maps) but the OEM rods are the weak point at high torque and a rebuild with a new engine block aint cheap!

    I have posted copies of dyno sheet and some of the best Dragy runs. Car ran around 540ps & 784nm on 99RON (Tesco Momentum) but it has achieved 560ps on the switchable map high power setting and octane booster.


    Engine Mods list were the following: - (NB: suspension and brakes were also upgraded to compliment the power mods)

    MRC stage 2 tune with switchable mapping (four settings including immobiliser function and high octane fuel)
    MRC DSG map (resets the torque values etc)
    Forge FMINT4 intercooler (an essential upgrade despite the opinions in other threads - heat management in these DAZA engines is important)
    Forge air intake pipe
    Forge turbo inlet pipe (use the gold wrapping to keep IT's as low as possible)
    BMC panel filter
    Scorpion decat downpipe with optional 200 cell sports cat (can be easily swapped in and out for MOT if required and to tame the smell)
    GFB DV+ diverter valve (the stock part is flimsy plastic and I have used DV+ on my other RS3's with no problems)
    Stock spark plugs (these are fine for stage 2 with stock turbo)
    Diet of 99RON fuel, preferably Tesco Momentum but Shell V Power as second choice.
    NF Race Formula Octane booster for those days when you are running the high power map.

    MRC dyno sheet - 99RON fuel run on switchable map

    IMG_0738.jpeg

    Dragy 0-60 time (using octane booster on high power map)

    IMG_0461.PNG

    Dragy 100-200 kph time (using octane booster on high power map)

    IMG_4060.PNG
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
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  13. DannyRS3

    DannyRS3 Registered User

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    Awesome numbers! How did it do at Santa Pod with stage 2?
     
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  14. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    I turned up at Santa Pod a week or so after having the stage 2 mods installed last year. Car was running around a two third's of a tank of fuel, had new Michelin MPS4S all round but had only done a couple hundred miles on them and needed scrubbing in properly for best grip. The car managed three consecutive low 10.9 secs runs at a gnats under 127mph terminal speed before the usual queuing got too long between runs (got a copy of the time sheet in a drawer somewhere). The car was a full spec model with pano roof and roof rails etc. I guess with less fuel and some of the other popular prep like stripping all the weight out the car then maybe it would get into the 10.8 or even a 10.7 with a good launch. I remember a guy in a Litchfield tuned Nissan GTR with a supposed 660bhp (but they are a hefty old beast) getting very frustrated that he could only manage flat 11.00 sec runs at the same session.
     
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  15. DannyRS3

    DannyRS3 Registered User

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    That is mindbogglingly fast. 10.9s is something to be very proud of! Guess those forge parts work very well together! Think I'll do the exact same setup when the time comes (soon!). How do you rate that Scorpion downpipe for fit and finish?
     
  16. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    I had a Milltek decat fitted for a few weeks and then swapped it out for the Scorpion DP which came with optional sports cat which could be taken on/off by loosening two C clamps and removing the straight through pipe section.

    I dyno tested both down pipes and discovered some interesting results.
    The Milltek decat DP was really loud and after map tweaking produced a nice consistent power curve with healthy torque. After swapping it for the Scorpion decat DP it gave a more sonorous deeper tone which I liked (it's 4 inch diameter at the mouth) but the dyno results showed that it didn't quite make as much torque or power below 4k rpm as the Milltek. After the engine reached 4k rpm the Scorpion came into its own and produced more power and torque right through to 7krpm.

    In my opinion the quality of the Scorpion is better than the Milltek DP, but..........I had an issue with the design of the Y piece of the Scorpion where it joins the OEM sports backbox pipes. The part just looks restrictive (see pic below) and was not a solid fit to the stock pipes. I contacted Scorpion to see if they were willing to develop a better solution that I could test for them and they sent me a prototype part. It was still not quite right (internal overlaps were still not optimal flow) so I had a fabrication company rework it for me. Unfortunately I never got to try it on the car as a motor trader had a client that wanted an RS3 with my spec and mods and made me a cash offer that I couldn't refuse. The prototype part was given to the new owner.

    If I was going to fit a downpipe to another RS3 I am not 100% sure I would opt for the Scorpion DP unless they had re-designed the Y piece joint.

    Here's some pics to show you the parts...

    Milltek decat DP fitted to the car.....
    IMG_0437.jpeg


    Scorpion decat DP with straight pipe section that can be removed and a sports cat fitted.... (note restrictive Y piece on far left)
    IMG_0412.jpg


    Scorpion sports cat that can be fitted in place of the straight centre pipe
    IMG_0894.jpeg


    Close up of the odd looking Scorpion Y piece that joins the DP to the stock back box pipes.....

    IMG_0417.jpg


    ....and the prototype Scorpion Y section that I had modded to replace the Y piece supplied in their original DP kit.
    IMG_1044.JPG
     
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  17. DannyRS3

    DannyRS3 Registered User

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    @Beebee-one Thanks for the detailed reply and the photos! I completely agree with you on the Scorpion Y-Pipe, that looks horribly restrictive, I'm curious how much more power the 4" pipe made on the top end though? Milltec would be an easy option, and might be enough for stage 2? Curious if it's worth springing for a larger diameter pipe - perhaps a BCS...
     
  18. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    At 4000rpm the Scorpion was 40ps and 70nm down on the Milltek but overhauled that deficit from 4k onward's to produce a peak of 548.9ps & 745nm versus 541.3ps and 765nm for the Milltek. The Scorpion would let the engine really pull at the top end and on dyno runs the power didn't drop away so quickly at peak revs.
    Having had both Milltek and Scorpion fitted you can actually feel the difference of the missing low down torque when compared to how the car drives with the Milltek (even Doug at MRC commented on it). Just to be clear, the car was still very fast with either exhaust fitted.

    If I had to fit a DP again I would probably go for the Milltek but with the sports cat this time. With a decat pipe you will get the pungent smell of exhaust fumes in the cabin when crawling in traffic or trundling around the local multi-storey car park looking for parking spots.
     
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  19. DannyRS3

    DannyRS3 Registered User

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    Thanks for your input and advice mate, really good info there! That's quite a staggering difference in the mid range. Will have to ask MRC what they think the the BCS power valve mid pipe vs milltec on a stage 2, but I imagine the same would hold true as your experience with less midrange and more peak power given the big diameters. Food for thought before getting booked in for a tune.. for sure :)
     
  20. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    I wonder whats better for 1/4 mile. Top end or mid range
    Suppose peak figures are always nice though.

    Ive seen a few make 560 now with the octane booster so seems like a nice perk for £20 quid bottle

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  21. DannyRS3

    DannyRS3 Registered User

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    You're not really spending very much time in the mid range when drag racing mate :). Peak power (and weight) is what translates directly into trap speeds. The rest is mostly about traction :)
     
  22. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    Some of the latest multi-maps from MRC are seeing stock turbo FL cars running nigh on 600ps (but with limited torque to preserve the rods) with meth injection and running race fuel/ethanol mixes. Check out their Facebook page for 17th June (wont let me link it here)
     
  23. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    Took the plunge and got my 2018 Fl booked in to MRC for a stage1 ecu and tcu tune along with the 4” forge inlet elbow and air flow pipe, already has the K&N panel filter fitted. Was going to get the IE induction kit but its not worth the money, I can get APRs open induction kit for half the price in the future if I want especially as that needs the 4” forge inlet to fit in the first place. looking forward to seen the difference
     
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  24. CarterRS

    CarterRS Registered User

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    Whats the price of going stage 1 out of interest?
     
  25. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    Between 850 and 2k depending on parts you want added amd if you want gearbox map as well

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
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  26. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    The time has come
     

    Attached Files:

  27. CarterRS

    CarterRS Registered User

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    How did it go?
     
  28. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    So Dave from Falkirk MRC was blown away by the results today, got 518hp and 680nm from a stage1 with the forge inlet and hard pipe only, the most he’s ever seen in all the RS3s he’s mapped, it’s bonkers!!
     
  29. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    DA0F4BEE-5FD0-4263-94FA-F7E5B5A9046F.jpeg
     
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  30. Sequence

    Sequence Registered User

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    That's a solid result! seen quite a few like it from mrc in banbury
     
  31. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Incredible. I’ve got exactly the same set up I think with MRC tune and got 480ps but exactly same torque of 680nm. It was a seriously hot day though. Although I think the dyno takes that into consideration?
     
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  32. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    Its crazy how tuneable the engine is, it’s perfect so glad I took the plunge
     
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  34. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    Separate note I filled the car up with momentum this morning in Newcastle before I travelled up the road but they had to drain the full tank and refuel with the same momentum in Falkirk as the fuel was so bad I they couldn’t tune it with what I put in. Dave said it was more like 95ron in it, dunno why this happened maybe the tanks where switched somehow or the garage hadn’t change the fuel in a while but something to watch because if it happened again without me knowing it will **** the engine, I’ll be reporting it ASAP and taking a sample back to them that’s for sure.
     
  35. K96

    K96 Registered User

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    I have also found the Tesco 99 momentum by me is awful as well....something isn't right with them lately so I've been sticking to shell V Power

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
     
  36. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    I was told by MRC not to use vpower either as it’s still only 98ron but they claim to be 99 lol
     
  37. CarterRS

    CarterRS Registered User

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    How does it compare to before having it mapped?

    Im getting a fl next weekend, will definitely be getting it remapped.
     
  38. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    The power is just constantly there throughout and the torque is more brutal, pops and bangs when u come off the throttle as well now which is always nice lol highly recommend it and only go with MRC imo
     
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  39. jebusRS

    jebusRS Registered User

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    if you dont mind me asking bud, how much was the stage 1 tune on the FL? I will be doing the same next year and im local to falkirk so MRC/D.H is where i will be going. Did you get the gear box mapped too?
     
  40. Sequence

    Sequence Registered User

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    MRC Banbury gave me a quote of £1,379.17 That was for stage 1 software + TCU software and Forge turbo elbow + hardpipe + panel filter
     
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  41. royalsteve68

    royalsteve68 Registered User

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    The gtr is a beast and can be modded to huge numbers but they are eye-wateringly expensive to mod, plus they are heavy and its a near 15 year old design.

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
     
  42. royalsteve68

    royalsteve68 Registered User

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    Holy moly. Wouldn't normally expect that from a stage 1, usually near a stage 2 figure

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
     
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  43. Roxman87

    Roxman87 Registered User

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    Cost me £1900 which was more than the £1700 I was quoted over the phone but he did say that was an estimate, But was well worth it in the end so I’m not fussed lol and yeah I got the gearbox mapped as well as they always recommend it, seems a lot smoother now and it sounds even louder with more pops and bangs than before.
     
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