Facelift S3 vs New/Old RS3s

[ASRman]

Hi Guys new to the forum

I know this thread has probably been done before but I do have a couple of queries I would like to get S3 owners views and experiences on.

I have a 2017 Facelift S3 S Tronic in Glacier White (3 door) on order which is due to be delivered end of April. After much deliberation between the S3 and the RS3 (both current and old) I decided that the S3 made most sense to me in terms of what it could offer me for the money. The RS3 is clearly a more special car with the 5 pot warble, but for me the price range does venture into an area where other cars could be had for a similar cost (or cheaper) such as the BMW M4 or even a used F10 M5 which to me are on a higher platform in terms of performance and luxury. In that sense the RS3 did not make much sense for me.

My question is how much of an actual, real world difference, in terms of straight line performance, is there between the new 310hp S3 and: a) the 8p RS3 ; and b) the 8v RS3

I am inclined to think that a 3 door facelift S3 with S Tronic may not get destroyed as badly as the figures might suggest given the weight advantage it has over both RS3s. The power to weight ratio on the new S3 and the old RS3 seem very similar so I wonder if anyone has any real world experience in comparing the two side by side.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts !

 

[Spack]

The RS3 8v is about as fast as a stage 1 RS3 8p, on day to day roads you probably won't see a massive difference between all three but it's definatley there, the facelift S3 or RS3 8p in stock form will never do a 12.1 sec 1/4 mile for example which is quite a bit faster than both the S3 and 8P, Someone from this forum has said his two mates one with a stage 1 Golf R and one with stock RS3 8v had a go against each other on a roll and the RS3 would eventually creep away.

 

[ASRman]

Yeh the 8V RS3 is clearly a bit faster than both but I do wonder just how much. If you look at this clip the you'll see a pre-facelift S3 pretty much matching the RS3 8P on a straight line acceleration run:



The 8P RS3 is still 335bhp which is a good 35/40 bhp advantage over the pre-facelift S3 yet is unable to out accelerate the S3 which carries less weight.

 

[dno_uk]

Can't speak for the facelift but I recently changed from pre-facelift 8V S3 to RS3 and in my opinion the difference is huge.

My S3 was a great car but the RS is a totally different machine, and not just the noise it feels a lot more planted on the road giving you so much more confidence when you turn in.

I'm sure plenty of people on this forum will disagree and say it's not worth the extra money, but there will be plenty on the RS3 forum that will echo my sentiments and say it's worth every penny. Quite a few have made the same jump from S3 to RS in fact.

 

[Spack]

I'd be quite wary of speedo videos, there could be many variables that are different in each video such as wind direction, temps and the big one gradient, lots of videos which want a certain outcome only have to take the car on a good downhill road and it will appear way quicker than it actually is, another trick used is they take a video clip of the speedo whilst the car is on the dyno so no wind resistance, I agree though id be surprised to see much if any difference on the road between a facelift S3 and RS3 8p.

 

[DeanoC]

You get this all the time with people looking into things too much. Cars are about the emotion of being in the thing and an RS3 is better than an S3. That is why it costs more.

You can bang on about power to weight, 0-60 and other boring paperwork based stuff as much as you like but that does not really surface all that much in your day to day driving.

Ask every RS3 owner would they swap their car for the equivalent S3 - no takers. Shoe on the other foot - 100% uptake.

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[Steff s3]

Well said DeanoC, couldn't of put it better myself.

 

[ASRman]

Thanks for the input guys.

I agree re the speedo videos there can be a lot of variables but I think its safe to say that by going off the figures and stats the two cars (8P RS3 and 8v S3) are very similar in performance anyway.

DeanoC I appreciate your input... I don't think it is a matter of looking into things too much. At the end of the day someone is going to be spending either £35k or £45/£50k, either way, a lot of money, on a piece of metal with four wheels, so I do not think its unreasonable for prospective buyers to be able to make sure the purchase makes sense both financially and in terms of what they get for their money.

I don't think anyone can sit here and argue that the S3 is a better car than the RS3. Arguably better and more aggressive styling, a more unique and nicer sounding engine, greater power and bragging rights in terms of exclusivity, the RS3 is definitely the flagship of the A3 class. That being said this is not what this discussion is intended to be based on, it is based on what makes most sense for the money when somebody is looking to fork out £30k + on a car. At the end of the day, the steep (too steep imho) pricing of the RS3 lifts it into a category where you could be considering the likes of C63 AMG's, BMW M4's/M3's and even used BMW M5/M6s. Unfortunately this makes the competition for the RS3 ridiculously fierce and it is hard to justify spending £50k on an RS3 when a 560bhp Merc AMG could be had for similar money. Seems to me the RS3 is a rare car for a reason, reason being it is hard to justify, unless you are hardcore RS fan and quite simply nothing else shall suffice.

The RS3 for me therefore is pretty much out of the question, not because the S3 is a 'better' car, but simply because it doesn't make any sense for me at that price range.

The S3 is the sweet spot for me in terms of pricing and what you get for your money but would like to move this discussion away from saying which car is better because its all relative. Best to stick to topic and talk about performance comparisons only !

 

[Terminator x]

The RS3 is an emotional decision imho, yes it isn't much faster than the S3 (wife has one) however it is leagues above it imho.

TX.

 

[Spack]

The RS3 is rare for two reasons 1) the mk1 was limited in numbers and 2) the mk2 has ceased production at the moment.
Once the facelift comes out used prices will settle a bit.
The 'you could get this for the price of an RS3' argument is very flawed.
An equivalent priced M4/5/C63 will most likely be out of or coming very close to the end of the warranty period, it will almost certainly have a good few thousand more miles and they arnt 4WD, if RS3 owners could afford M4's then why do they still choose RS3's? Me personally the RS3 is more compact, much much better in all weathers, just as good inside and sounds even better.

It comes down to this, name another all weather car that sounds as good as the RS3, goes as good as the RS3, still has 3 years manufactures warranty and can carry 4 people in comfort all for under 45k?

 

[DeanoC]

Thanks for the input guys.

I agree re the speedo videos there can be a lot of variables but I think its safe to say that by going off the figures and stats the two cars (8P RS3 and 8v S3) are very similar in performance anyway.

DeanoC I appreciate your input... I don't think it is a matter of looking into things too much. At the end of the day someone is going to be spending either £35k or £45/£50k, either way, a lot of money, on a piece of metal with four wheels, so I do not think its unreasonable for prospective buyers to be able to make sure the purchase makes sense both financially and in terms of what they get for their money.

I don't think anyone can sit here and argue that the S3 is a better car than the RS3. Arguably better and more aggressive styling, a more unique and nicer sounding engine, greater power and bragging rights in terms of exclusivity, the RS3 is definitely the flagship of the A3 class. That being said this is not what this discussion is intended to be based on, it is based on what makes most sense for the money when somebody is looking to fork out £30k + on a car. At the end of the day, the steep (too steep imho) pricing of the RS3 lifts it into a category where you could be considering the likes of C63 AMG's, BMW M4's/M3's and even used BMW M5/M6s. Unfortunately this makes the competition for the RS3 ridiculously fierce and it is hard to justify spending £50k on an RS3 when a 560bhp Merc AMG could be had for similar money. Seems to me the RS3 is a rare car for a reason, reason being it is hard to justify, unless you are hardcore RS fan and quite simply nothing else shall suffice.

The RS3 for me therefore is pretty much out of the question, not because the S3 is a 'better' car, but simply because it doesn't make any sense for me at that price range.

The S3 is the sweet spot for me in terms of pricing and what you get for your money but would like to move this discussion away from saying which car is better because its all relative. Best to stick to topic and talk about performance comparisons only !

I get your logic. I didn't intend to appear flippant. You are right, a car purchase is personal and everyone has their own wants and needs. Someone who lives on a farm gets a 4x4, a person with 4 kids gets a galaxy etc.

If you are after an a3 that goes quick get an S3. An RS3 is a different car with a different experience. In my opinion it is wrong to see it as an S3 with some different numbers on the spec sheet and a few styling tweaks.

I had the exact same with mine (big brother RS4). I did all the maths and studying and decided that an S4 was my perfect car. I looked for ages, drove many but kept seeing RS4's parked up at the dealerships. I made the mistake of driving one and bought it an hour later even though it was lunacy if you look at it sensibly. The jump from the S4 to the RS4 was much bigger than the jump from my diesel SEAT to the S4. Just a different league of fun and emotion.

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[CraigI]

Short of the blistering pace and excellent noise I didn't feel there was enough between the two as far as handling was concerned.
If straight line speed and a shouty exhaust are high up on your priorities then the RS3 would seem like an improved prospect.
However, no way would 100% of S3 owners want a RS3, nowhere near it.

They both suffer from the same traits.
Yes the RS3 perhaps has slightly better suspension, but it's also got a lot more weight up front than the S3.
Both are held back by Haldex.

The looks of the RS3 is not RS enough for my liking either. Where are the flared arches you used to see on the previous RS4 and RS5?
Those wheels don't help matters.

My comments aren't based on the facelift S3 though, never driven one.
Has the facelift got an improved version of Haldex?

 

[Ormesome]

I don't get your 1st post or parts of the 2nd. You didn't get the RS3 because it strayed into M4 or used M5 price range. Aren't they in a different car category? surely people buy a car on size? you assess your needs and then base your search on the category.....Also, one of my biggest pet peeves (and you see it almost daily on this website) is when people start to say things like "making the S3 financially viable". You have just bought a new Audi S3!! Its the best car in the category! Actually, can you go higher in terms of quality, performance etc? If you need to do this then your probably overstretching and should be looking at a different model/brand. Maybe this is the whole keeping up with the neighbours thing & credit stretching in the UK. If your looking at a £45-50k price range then your not gonna look at the S3. you will look cars offered in that price range!

 

[deanshaw24]

I think the s3 is a great car and the best in its catorgory, my facelift will turn up next month. It makes sense financially and a good all round car, however if they bring out a facelift rs3 Sportback I will be ordering, because I want one not because it makes sense financially. That's what it boils down too. Heart over head. For me anyway

 

[Spack]

Let's face it buying a brand new Audi simply doesn't make sense financially lol we buy these sort of cars because we want them and that's the long and short of it.
I can sort of see people points on the RS3 not being the price difference enough away from the S3 but that exhaust noise for me is just something else in my book it's worth the money alone, looks wise yes I agree it's not massively different inside or out but that's the S3's fault not the RS3's because the S3 is so great inside, not sure what else the RS3 could bring to the table over the S3?
The flared arch comment though if you got the S3 and RS3 together the RS3 arches are much bigger, not quite as in your face though at I agree the rotors don't do it any favours at all, hope the facelift SB doesn't get the saloons where though they look even worse like a set of Fox alloys or something!

 

[Jassyo06]

Let's face it buying a brand new Audi simply doesn't make sense financially lol we buy these sort of cars because we want them and that's the long and short of it.
I can sort of see people points on the RS3 not being the price difference enough away from the S3 but that exhaust noise for me is just something else in my book it's worth the money alone, looks wise yes I agree it's not massively different inside or out but that's the S3's fault not the RS3's because the S3 is so great inside, not sure what else the RS3 could bring to the table over the S3?
The flared arch comment though if you got the S3 and RS3 together the RS3 arches are much bigger, not quite as in your face though at I agree the rotors don't do it any favours at all, hope the facelift SB doesn't get the saloons where though they look even worse like a set of Fox alloys or something!

Fox Alloys...

like...it RS3 AWESOME CAR...New yin even better...once you've had a S3...There's only one way to go....difference in looks between the current RS3 and S3.....NO comparison....my car and a RS3

 

[Tom.H]

Just my 2p I think the RS3 does look better than the S3, also sounds a million times better imo.

I would have ordered one but just couldn't justify the £47.5k I specc'd it to and that was being fairly conservative

 

[TMB]

I would have ordered one but just couldn't justify the £47.5k I specc'd it to and that was being fairly conservative

Holy **** cars in the UK are so cheap compared to over here

The starting price for an RS3 here is about £84k O_O

 

[steeve]

Oh my, the old, S3 and RS3 issue again.

To which I'll say there is no answer. It's very much a personal choice. I looked and looked but in the end I decided not to get an RS3. I'm not going to be specific but it's not for me. When the new all but 400 bhp one is available I'll probably look again.
However had VW actually produced the much waited for R400 I would almost certainly have bought one of those.

It's your money and you make your choice. Cant be wrong or right.

 

[Spack]

As great as the rest of the RS3 saloon looks I'll still stand by my statement re the alloys.
A lot of people saying they chose not to buy the current RS3 but will look again with the facelift? What are you expecting? Was the performance not enough with the current one? Need that extra couple of tenths it will be faster?
It will handle the same, sound the same and more or less look the same, go a little faster and will cost even more especially with the £450 tax per year for 5 years unlike the current one.
what I'm trying to say is if you didn't want the first one and cost was a factor then what are you hoping is going to be so drastically different that it will suddenly be worth it?

 

[steeve]

Purely the lure of almost 400 bhp might (and I say might) pursuade me to overlook its many shortcomings. Though seriously I doubt it.

 

[Deleted member 117185]

Got to say the old 8p rs3 was a bargain bucket rs3. Same mounts as the a3, they always used to go. Same bushings, dampers etc. Really wasn't an rs car. Looked the same as an s line inside. Understeered like no tomorrow. The rs3 doesn't handle as well as the s3 either with that heavier front end (60kg heavier I believe)

 

[dno_uk]

Purely the lure of almost 400 bhp might (and I say might) pursuade me to overlook its many shortcomings. Though seriously I doubt it.

As most pre facelift cars push 380 - 390bhp as standard when dyno'd it will be interesting to see if the FL delivers more power than the expected 400bhp.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Just for @jassyo06 talking to the dealer today and my steed should be ready for pick up next Friday and asked him about RS3 pricing...nice pretty loaded spec $72,000.00 Cdn. That is 43,500 quid and delivery August

 

[Tom.H]

Think I might move to Canada!

 

[Jassyo06]

Naw....Naw not another thread *** going the same way....l just dont GET why existing RS3 owners are..so ANTI face lift ...get over it and move on....there was a lot of this this with the face lift A3/s3...but that was short lived....the new face lift is nice

Just for @jassyo06 talking to the dealer today and my steed should be ready for pick up next Friday and asked him about RS3 pricing...nice pretty loaded spec $72,000.00 Cdn. That is 43,500 quid and delivery August

Cheers for that mate..not too worried about when the RS3 IS available...it is what is....things escalate on car forums...?? but in the life scale of things....its small potatoes...need a sun tan first

 

[Spack]

The new TTRS has dyno'd at 411 bhp so only a little bit more than quoted, it's Vbox numbers are WAY quicker than the RS3 8v though but not sure how much of that is the weight but the numbers suggest it's more than simple power to weight at play, perhaps the new turbo works wonders?

 

[Terminator x]

Not anti the facelift just bringing some perspective to all the "it's nearly here in the UK" cobblers. By the time it arrives us old car owners may even upgrade

TX.

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[msdmjb]

RS3 on performance measures is a better car, fact.
As an S3 owner I wouldn't want an RS3 (or TTRS which I have tried), I am middle aged and like driving around quietly in my 3drs and manual gearbox. However both S3/RS3 are fundamentally flawed as performance machines as they are small hatchbacks first with powerful engines second, I like the compromise though (if you are approaching handling limits on the public highway then get on a track and see how slow you really are ) as they both make day to day driving very easy to go very fast. Not buying a new RS3 as the price will be too close to more committed cars but totally get why somebody would, a manual R400 would have been on my list.

Where I am in Europe the new RS3 will be pushing £65k+ given the current exchange rate! The UK has a shock ahead in a couple of years time.

 

[Spack]

The new facelift RS3 is said to be 45k in Britain at current exchange rates, that also puts it in the £450 per year tax bracket and £1500 first year tax bracket, it's getting silly expensive now.
And that's before any Brexit tariff changes lol
Surely with that starting price and already a few high 50k RS3's knocking about new we will see some 60k+ RS3 facelifts in Britain which is pretty baffling considering you can get a new GTR for 70k

 

[Jassyo06]

Not anti the facelift just bringing some perspective to all the "it's nearly here in the UK" cobblers. By the time it arrives us old car owners may even upgrade

TX.

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Cough...Cough...UP...ye owe a 1 £ sterling please....told ye last week about this..................lol

 

[Jassyo06]

RS3 on performance measures is a better car, fact.
As an S3 owner I wouldn't want an RS3 (or TTRS which I have tried), I am middle aged and like driving around quietly in my 3drs and manual gearbox. However both S3/RS3 are fundamentally flawed as performance machines as they are small hatchbacks first with powerful engines second, I like the compromise though (if you are approaching handling limits on the public highway then get on a track and see how slow you really are ) as they both make day to day driving very easy to go very fast. Not buying a new RS3 as the price will be too close to more committed cars but totally get why somebody would, a manual R400 would have been on my list.

Where I am in Europe the new RS3 will be pushing £65k+ given the current exchange rate! The UK has a shock ahead in a couple of years time.

Your personal circumstances are different from most of us Brits....why the **** would you want a manual gearbox in this day and age,when the S-Tronic box does it so much better,plus the fact RS3 residuals are far far better than S3 residuals,these new facelift RS cars will have a limited production run...and it will be Groundhog RS3 Day...Again...and why does the UK have a shock ahead of it....

 

[Jassyo06]

Not anti the facelift just bringing some perspective to all the "it's nearly here in the UK" cobblers. By the time it arrives us old car owners may even upgrade

TX.

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Hopefully Nardo will be obsolete by then lol

 

[hollows wife]

whats wrong with a manual gearbox ? is it just the younger generation who want to drive cars built like go carts with just stop and go pedals ?
soon be wanting the auto box selector on a stalk like indicator on the old american cars .
had 1 auto box tip tronic car 2 months and it was gone ,boring lazy mans car to drive ,only thing good was you could eat a big mac without having to change gear.

 

[msdmjb]

Every time I drive a DSG it does something I wouldn't have done, driving a DSG as good/efficient as they are (they are a marvel of engineering and ideal for UK traffic) for me is boring...........point car press loud pedal job done, never considered the Big Macability Manuals are disappearing from many brands which is obviously market driven but I prefer manuals (I have not bought an RS3/AMG due to being auto only).
Maybe it is just the car driving market, many motorbikes have similar to DSG gearboxes but the take up is tiny due to riders wanting involvement rather than just a means of getting somewhere, all of my mbikes are manual and will always be.

Prices will have to realign, no company dealing/reporting in Euro/USD etc can continue to absorb 15-20% currency hits irrespective of hedging. If tariffs then appear on top then a lot of people will be taking out large PCP commitments.

Onwards.

 

[wab172uk]

why the **** would you want a manual gearbox in this day and age,when the S-Tronic box does it so much better..

Because some of us enjoy the act of changing gear. Whether it's just tootling about, or a more committed drive over the Pennines etc. If you did a lot of driving in town, or in a city centre, I can see the appeal of a DSG, but on open roads, there is nothing better than a manual gearbox.

I honestly think that DSG appeals to the younger generation (I'm 42) as they are the PlayStation generation, (pre-driving test) where all you do is steer. For me, that's soo boring.

This was all started off by Ferrari years ago. Customers bought the F1 paddles shift, as they could pretend to be Michael Schumacher, and as most customers opted for the F1 box, they stopped production of the manual. Now in a Supercar, I can again see the point of an Auto/DSG, as the speed of these things, most people wouldn't dare take a hand off the steering wheel. But it's funny though. As the price of second hand Ferrari's have skyrocketed, the biggest want (and the highest prices) go on cars equipped with a manual gearbox !!!

I'd also bet that most customers of DSG, don't even bother with either the paddles, or the gearstick (up and down) when driving. Yes, the car might accelerate 0.2 seconds faster to 60, or get to 100 1.2 seconds faster due to not manual shifting, but really.......... on any give and take road, a DSG equipped car would be no faster than the manual counterpart. Only at the end of the journey, the driver with the manual gearbox, would have enjoyed the drive far more.

I owned an R8 V8 for over 3 years with the Manual box, and the Click-clack every time I changed gear was such a pleasure. What pleasure is there in seamless shifts and just steering? None.

 

[Tom.H]

I love my DSG, much nicer for use in traffic where using the clutch constantly is a pain.

I actually use the paddles quite a lot and will do in the S3 as well, was never really much of a PlayStation type of person tbh, first 2 cars were manual then I got the R32 DSG purely because it was the only one I found that fit my criteria. I'm 31 this year so whilst not old, not young either compared with some owners.

 

[DeanoC]

Each to their own. To say one is fun and the other is not is crazy talk. You are still in control of the gears in the same way as a manual but the muscle memory pattern of how you do that is different.

Leaving emotion and opinion at the door, technically stronic is better. Two clutches are better than one and that is why most hot cars are twin clutch now.

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[9Designs]

Apart from the convienance in town the initial appeal of DSG is going for me. They do things when you don't want, the paddles with road ratio steering racks are never where you can find them. The Lever +/- is the wrong way around.... + forward... huhhh.... normal shifts to soon and sport won't shift and hangs on too long.
We had an Ibiza Cupra 1.4 TFSI DSG for 2.5 years and now a A3 184 TDI Quattro DSG.... these have been the wife's car as she now likes the easy of driving.
For me they are boring and frustrating...... which brings us to the elephant in the room, want performance drivers car, that puts a smile on your face, loves corners, manual, has loads of involvement. Then get an RS, a real RS one made by Ford... I have have the current Focus RS, I can here the cliche comments about interior quality, but for 10k less and far more involvement and enjoyment I'd not take any spec S3 or RS3... sorry .... hence we have a commuting version of the A3 and proper RS for performance and fun. Also have an old Z4 3.0 auto as my commute car and sunny Sundays with the roof down.

 

[Pederson]

Apart from the convienance in town the initial appeal of DSG is going for me. They do things when you don't want, the paddles with road ratio steering racks are never where you can find them. The Lever +/- is the wrong way around.... + forward... huhhh.... normal shifts to soon and sport won't shift and hangs on too long.
We had an Ibiza Cupra 1.4 TFSI DSG for 2.5 years and now a A3 184 TDI Quattro DSG.... these have been the wife's car as she now likes the easy of driving.
For me they are boring and frustrating...... which brings us to the elephant in the room, want performance drivers car, that puts a smile on your face, loves corners, manual, has loads of involvement. Then get an RS, a real RS one made by Ford... I have have the current Focus RS, I can here the cliche comments about interior quality, but for 10k less and far more involvement and enjoyment I'd not take any spec S3 or RS3... sorry .... hence we have a commuting version of the A3 and proper RS for performance and fun. Also have an old Z4 3.0 auto as my commute car and sunny Sundays with the roof down.

I hope you are referring to the Mk1 focus RS Absolutely loved mine and far more involved driving experience in comparison to the S3.