Facelift EU turn signals on NA S3

[MarttiMat]

Hey all,

Not sure this will get much feedback as most of you all reside across the pond where the title in question is standard.

As some know, US lighting specifications are terrible and out of date. Due to this, a lot of the latest lighting technology (matrix headlights) are not available here. Some may not know however, neither are standard functioning rear turn signals.

For those that do not know, here is how are rear taillights operate (forward to the 30 sec mark) in the states:


As compared to rest of world:


Simple question is, since all the hardware is the same, is it possible to code the central electrics module to EU spec to stop the brake light from also flashing with the turn indicator? Has anyone been successful with this?

 

[DJAlix]

Thanks for posting the video, very useful for me as I am dealing with more and more requests from "over the water"

Unfortunately the USA spec rear clusters are different to the EU spec ones. All the versions I have seen so far, have ordered a few, have been hardwired to flash the brake light and as they are sealed units I have not seen any easy way to change this. This is also the same for the new A4 and Q7.

There is a guy in the USA with a new S4 who had researched this and found the same, we then retrofitted EU rear clusters and EU Matrix Lights.

 

[Tom.H]

Why on earth do they make the brake light flash too?!

 

[DJAlix]

Why on earth do they make the brake light flash too?!

USA road laws?

 

[Tom.H]

USA road laws?

Seems a bit daft on a car that already has (cool) indicators

 

[Mark_86]

Didn't the Mustang have flowing indicators? Did they have flashing brake lights aswell? Very odd...

 

[CHCCubs]

Didn't the Mustang have flowing indicators? Did they have flashing brake lights aswell? Very odd...

Likely since the Mustang signals are larger (portions of the entire tailight flash) they are acceptable versus the smaller LED portion of the S3 tailight. Either way, yes the outdated U.S. regulations (which sadly also apply here in Canada) are crap.

 

[Dan Halen]

Go all the way.

I just received a set of EU FL LED tail lamps today... just poring over code now to determine how I need to recode Leuchte channels to ensure compatibility with EU functionality once I install the EU units and the dynamic adapters.

I was just going to buy PFL EU tails and code them for standard EU functionality, but I found such a screaming deal out of the Netherlands on the FL units that I couldn't pass it up.

All that said, I'm under the (potentially erroneous) impression that part of the reason US coding must be changed is to separate the brake and turn signals so the EU unit isn't flashing the red brake and the amber turn signal at the same time. Maybe there's more to it than that.

Edit: Just watched the US 2017 S3 video. Wow... they sure assed up the rear turn signals. It's probably due to the surface area requirement, but still... yuck. Completely minimizes the "oooh, ahhh" effect of the dynamic signal, IMO.

 

[MarttiMat]

Go all the way.

I just received a set of EU FL LED tail lamps today... just poring over code now to determine how I need to recode Leuchte channels to ensure compatibility with EU functionality once I install the EU units and the dynamic adapters.

I was just going to buy PFL EU tails and code them for standard EU functionality, but I found such a screaming deal out of the Netherlands on the FL units that I couldn't pass it up.

All that said, I'm under the (potentially erroneous) impression that part of the reason US coding must be changed is to separate the brake and turn signals so the EU unit isn't flashing the red brake and the amber turn signal at the same time. Maybe there's more to it than that.

Edit: Just watched the US 2017 S3 video. Wow... they sure assed up the rear turn signals. It's probably due to the surface area requirement, but still... yuck. Completely minimizes the "oooh, ahhh" effect of the dynamic signal, IMO.

Thanks all for the feedback!

Just to confirm @Dan Halen , you have a FL 8V? If so, would it just be as simple as plugging in the FL EU units and coding the 09 module to EU rear lamps installed? The front sweeping indicators are pretty cool as well but I do not think this will work unless Matrix headlights are fitting from what I have read?

And for all: yes, the reason the brake lights are flashing with the indicators in the rear is due the size requirement for a turn signal. For an NA spec car, manufacturers must meet a (abnormally large out-of-date 70's style) size for compliance. This is why the Mustang is able to pass as the lens size is exactly the spec from the older cars of the day. All newer LED taillight vehicles sadly have to comply and look just like the S3 above. It is sad look really.

Personally I hate it and hence this thread has started to look into ways of having the turn signal perform as rest of world markets. Cheers to all those that have provided insight thus far!

 

[Dan Halen]

No siree... PFL 2015 here. In order to put FL units on a PFL car, you need adapters that will also enable the dynamic functionality. There's something inherently different in the FL cars that enables dynamic signals- and that difference isn't integrated into the lamp units.

See: https://www.k-electronic-shop.de/AU...usine-dynamischer-Blinker-Anschlusspaket.html

In addition to those, US cars will still require coding to otherwise work with EU tail lamps... or so my research says.

Brian

 

[MarttiMat]

No siree... PFL 2015 here. In order to put FL units on a PFL car, you need adapters that will also enable the dynamic functionality. There's something inherently different in the FL cars that enables dynamic signals- and that difference isn't integrated into the lamp units.

See: https://www.k-electronic-shop.de/AU...usine-dynamischer-Blinker-Anschlusspaket.html

In addition to those, US cars will still require coding to otherwise work with EU tail lamps... or so my research says.

Brian

Got it. Thanks!

Yeah, I would imagine it would require EU rear lamps and coding change for the 09 module.

Sadly @DJAlix has mentioned previously that the new 09 modules require access to ODIS in order to change coding. Well at least for now... I hope VCDS will have future support.

 

[Dan Halen]

Yikes. That's most unfortunate. The enthusiast community will once again win that game of cat and mouse... it's just a matter of “when.”

 

[DJAlix]

Got it. Thanks!

Yeah, I would imagine it would require EU rear lamps and coding change for the 09 module.

Sadly @DJAlix has mentioned previously that the new 09 modules require access to ODIS in order to change coding. Well at least for now... I hope VCDS will have future support.

Yes but while VCDS cannot perform Long Coding of the FL 09 modules it can still perform adaptation channel changes with no issue, and "adaptations" is where the rear lights are coded

 

[DJAlix]

No siree... PFL 2015 here. In order to put FL units on a PFL car, you need adapters that will also enable the dynamic functionality. There's something inherently different in the FL cars that enables dynamic signals- and that difference isn't integrated into the lamp units.

See: https://www.k-electronic-shop.de/AU...usine-dynamischer-Blinker-Anschlusspaket.html

In addition to those, US cars will still require coding to otherwise work with EU tail lamps... or so my research says.

Brian

LED rear clusters in PFL cars are connected via 5 wires per cluster. LED rear clusters in FL cars are connected via 6 wires per cluster, so in order to complete an OEM style install in a PFL car extra cabling will need to be run in from the BCM at the front of the car through to the rear. There are also Adaptation channels within 09 which need to be setup in order to trigger the "dynamic" flashing via the new connections.

 

[Dan Halen]

Interesting. There's no mention of that extra wire on the product page for the PFL-to-FL kit sold by Europrice. I'll have to see what the wiring diagrams turn up once I have time to study them.

I went back and looked again (https://europrice.us/taillight-package-257c-a3-s3-post-facelift-led-sedan):

PRODUCT DETAILS
- Genuine Post-Facelift Equipment and Function
- Properly Sweeping Turn Signals
- Discrete Orange Turn Signals for Added Safety
- Packages Available for Pre-Facelift A3 and S3 Models
- Completely Error-Free Functionality
- No Wiring is Required for Installation - Fully Plug-In
- 100% Fully Plug-In For Easy Installation
- Instructions Included for Installation and Coding

*Note North American models require coding which is included with pricing. Genuine VCDS Hex-Can is required for this coding. Rest of World models do not require coding for installation.

So... if I get straight with the coding Rob gave me in my thread re: adaptation channels on his PFL UK S3, I should be on the right track. Ergo, the coding is a result of the US-to-EU transition, not the FL-to-PFL transition. The magic boxes that I bought from k-electric should solve the FL-to-PFL part.

What's the wire that needs to be run from the J519 to the back of the car? I had to do that on my MkV Rabbit to use EU LED tail lamps, but I honestly don't remember why.

 

[DJAlix]

If you are wanting to complete an "OEM" install then you would need to run the extra wires and code as you would not be using any "modules". If you are going down the module route then you don't need to do anything other than connect up said modules and then fit the clusters.

 

[Dan Halen]

Makes sense- thanks for the clarification. My research led me to believe the dynamic feature isn't possible in a PFL car without the adapters... and based on the size of the pucks between the two sets of wires, I suspect there's some sort of wizardry in there. In this case, I think I'd actually rather use adapters than run wires outside of harnesses, anyway. The trunk-mounted units have an entirely different molex configuration between PFL and FL cars, it seems, so that would be another place to take on extra work if it weren't for the adapters.

I went home mid-day for a bit and studied code. I think I'm confident enough at this point to start jacking around with adaptations tonight to see what I can accomplish.

 

[DJAlix]

Not a problem

 

[Dan Halen]

Alright, @MarttiMAT . I dissected PFL US vs. PFL UK and was successfully able to decouple the turn signals and brake lamps on the US units. I'm convinced that, if I wanted the PFL EU tail lamps, I'd simply plug them in and have an amber turn signal in place of the red on the left. Left is post-recode, and right is stock US.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17STM0_paZ2s8jbJyW6Zz6nIOpMEkCGrNVg/view?usp=sharing

Your adaptations are a bit more obscure, but I think we can attempt some tinkering to see if we can decouple on yours as well. More to come on that...

Interestingly, after adjusting the coding, the body-mounted FL unit did not work without the adapter. I may try plugging the FL unit with its adapter before changing the coding on the right side tomorrow to see what it does. I dunno... I'm not a huge risk taker.

... aaaaand, here's what the FL unit looks like, for all functions, after completion, with the right side still 100% US stock.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r2SCNXzfNnEbnJ4N--mqK6lzDdF3Tmbfzw/view?usp=sharing

Video quality is hideous... shot it with a piece of junk of a phone. It gives the general idea, though. I may try to get something better before I go at the right side tomorrow.

 

[Dan Halen]

Also... I'm curious if you might be able to tell me if this part on your car (driver's side in this case) has the same part number as my piece (8V5 945 253A). The profile of the light housing is ever so slightly different between the PFL and FL, and I'm not sure the piece I have fits as well anymore.

 

[MarttiMat]

LED rear clusters in PFL cars are connected via 5 wires per cluster. LED rear clusters in FL cars are connected via 6 wires per cluster, so in order to complete an OEM style install in a PFL car extra cabling will need to be run in from the BCM at the front of the car through to the rear. There are also Adaptation channels within 09 which need to be setup in order to trigger the "dynamic" flashing via the new connections.

Okay, so the big question for those with FL , if you got a set of EU FL tail lamps would they work with a simple coding change for the NA market?

 

[DJAlix]

Okay, so the big question for those with FL , if you got a set of EU FL tail lamps would they work with a simple coding change for the NA market?

NA FL Saloon LED Clusters

Inner Saloon Cluster = 6 pins


Outer Saloon Cluster = 4 pins


Might be possible to "code" the Inner cluster but as you can see the outer cluster needs additional cabling.

"What about using a adaptor / module for the outer cluster and coding for the inner?" Will not work as the timing will be different and will never sync up to form an OEM style "sweep".

 

[AL_B]

Mine is a uk FL S3, but my front indicators just flash on and off like in the first video.

Should they be dynamic like in first video. Or is that an optional extra?

 

[DJAlix]

Mine is a uk FL S3, but my front indicators just flash on and off like in the first video.

Should they be dynamic like in first video. Or is that an optional extra?

Dynamic Front Turn Signals are a feature of the Matrix Headlights option.

 

[AL_B]

Thanks @DJAlix. I guess it can't be coded then with VCDS.

 

[DJAlix]

Thanks @DJAlix. I guess it can't be coded then with VCDS.

Unfortunately not.

 

[larbel]

This is the wiring I built for PFL to FL tail lights, the pins are swapped according to the FL tail lights and everything works except for whatever reason the fog lights no longer function. The pins swap are definitely correct I think, otherwise, at least 2 functions won't work, so I'm hoping once I hook up the 6th wire to ignition power, the fog lights will function again.

I'm waiting for the waterproof pins for the outer lamp to arrive before I can hook everything up, but @DJAlix if you have time, can you take a look at the PM and let me know if there's anything wrong? According to my supplier, they've done many of retrofits like this without having to do any coding, but I still have my doubts...

 

[DJAlix]

This is the wiring I built for PFL to FL tail lights, the pins are swapped according to the FL tail lights and everything works except for whatever reason the fog lights no longer function. The pins swap are definitely correct I think, otherwise, at least 2 functions won't work, so I'm hoping once I hook up the 6th wire to ignition power, the fog lights will function again.

I'm waiting for the waterproof pins for the outer lamp to arrive before I can hook everything up, but @DJAlix if you have time, can you take a look at the PM and let me know if there's anything wrong? According to my supplier, they've done many of retrofits like this without having to do any coding, but I still have my doubts...

View attachment 125799

Hey Larbel. Am having to go through messages in an order of priority but have "starred" you PM and will reply, might not be until the weekend tho as I have Saturday afternoon set aside for forum "catch ups".

 

[MarttiMat]

NA FL Saloon LED Clusters

Inner Saloon Cluster = 6 pins
View attachment 125475

Outer Saloon Cluster = 4 pins
View attachment 125465

Might be possible to "code" the Inner cluster but as you can see the outer cluster needs additional cabling.

"What about using a adaptor / module for the outer cluster and coding for the inner?" Will not work as the timing will be different and will never sync up to form an OEM style "sweep".

Interesting. So FL EU cars have 6 pins on both inner and outer lens assemblies? Or is the 4 pin for Pre FL NA cars?

 

[DJAlix]

Interesting. So FL EU cars have 6 pins on both inner and outer lens assemblies? Or is the 4 pin for Pre FL NA cars?

Correct, 6pins on both for EU.

The clusters / connectors I pictured above are For FL NA cars. I had a set sent to me in error.

 

[MarttiMat]

Thanks for the clarification!

So these two wires run direct to 09 I take it?

Now it all makes sense, the extra wiring allows the J519 to activate the turn signal separate of the brake light for the EU assemblies. Sadly for NA, they saved cost as the brake light and turn signal operate together so no need for the additional circuit.

 

[DJAlix]

Thanks for the clarification!

So these two wires run direct to 09 I take it?

Now it all makes sense, the extra wiring allows the J519 to activate the turn signal separate of the brake light for the EU assemblies. Sadly for NA, they saved cost as the brake light and turn signal operate together so no need for the additional circuit.

Thats the one, so they can then be controlled via adaptation channels. Could indeed be a cost saving measure, but also maybe a legal thing... in order to make sure that people cannot activate the dynamic sweep and contravene road laws.

 

[MarttiMat]

Thats the one, so they can then be controlled via adaptation channels. Could indeed be a cost saving measure, but also maybe a legal thing... in order to make sure that people cannot activate the dynamic sweep and contravene road laws.

Last question on the topic, is the connector style the same for the EU tail lamp as compared to to the NA unit? If wiring were to be run, would it be a matter of adding the 2 pins to the existing connector and running the wires or is it an entirely different connector style for EU 6 pin?

 

[igor Toro]

who can help with coding to disable Brake Light when turn lights work?
audi 2015 year

 

[Dan Halen]

Shoot me a PM with your email address and I can send you the coding changes.