Engine knocking noise

S

S3STE1977

Registered User
Joined
Apr 6, 2019
Messages
66
Reaction score
13
Points
8
Location
Bradford
OK I've got a bit of a strange knocking noise I'm hoping someone could help me with.
I definitely think it's an engine knocking tapping noise because the noise changes with the revs.
I can only hear it when the car is under load especially in 3rd and 4th gear and when I back it onto the driveway at home.
It only seems to do it when the revs are low like the engine is struggling.
It sounds fine on tick over and I can rev it on the spot and all is good and no noise on overrun.

My car is a 2000 s3. It has 244k miles, it's standard apart from stage1 map I had done 2 years ago know.
I know it's going to be almost impossible to diagnose without hearing it but I thought someone may have had a similar issue?
 
Yeah it's definitely knocking so I'm after a new engine now so what other engines will be a straight swap apart from the Apy?
 
Typically this is from a bent rod and the piston hitting the squirter....

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Now I have listened to the video I fear it is a bent rod

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm trying to find a new engine. The car is my daily driver so can't really live without it or I would be thinking of a rebuild.
What other engine codes would be compatible?
I've seen a couple of apy engines on ebay but not much history and no mention of millage.
 
audi upgrades
APY and APX (TT) are direct replacements for yours... you can essentially use an AMK or BAM engine too... AGU can be used at a push but they are large port and older engines as a rule...

Avoid AUM as they have 19mm pinned rods

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
APY and APX (TT) are direct replacements for yours... you can essentially use an AMK or BAM engine too... AGU can be used at a push but they are large port and older engines as a rule...

Avoid AUM as they have 19mm pinned rods

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
I've been offered an amk would that be a straight swap? Is there any thing I nerd to change?
 
Physically the engine is the same (head and block).... AMK will have a VVT cam tensioner but you just leave that unplugged (as APY hasn't got the wiring) and it will just work like your current one fine...

AMK didn't come with SAI so you will need to do a SAI delete (there is a link on a thread in the FAQs on how to go about that)...

You will need to use your knock sensors as they differ between APY/AMK (do not tighten the bolts too much else they will cause issues... 20nm is as tight as they need to be) and you may need to swap over the water pipe that comes out the back of the pump as there are a few differences across the years/models and the AMK one may not line up with your heater hoses etc

<tuffty/>
 
audi upgrades
<tuffty/> said:
Physically the engine is the same (head and block).... AMK will have a VVT cam tensioner but you just leave that unplugged (as APY hasn't got the wiring) and it will just work like your current one fine...

AMK didn't come with SAI so you will need to do a SAI delete (there is a link on a thread in the FAQs on how to go about that)...

You will need to use your knock sensors as they differ between APY/AMK (do not tighten the bolts too much else they will cause issues... 20nm is as tight as they need to be) and you may need to swap over the water pipe that comes out the back of the pump as there are a few differences across the years/models and the AMK one may not line up with your heater hoses etc

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Well thanks for all the help I really appreciate it.
I'm still in 2 minds about the amk, there's no history and he doesn't know the millage.
I don't want to do all that work and it be waste of time.
Do you think I could get away with just changing the rods and rings?
 
S3STE1977 said:
Well thanks for all the help I really appreciate it.
I'm still in 2 minds about the amk, there's no history and he doesn't know the millage.
I don't want to do all that work and it be waste of time.
Do you think I could get away with just changing the rods and rings?
Click to expand...

If there's no significant damage to piston walls or any other components, then yes. However with labour and swapping it out and time, it may be cheaper to find a replacement engine.
 
S3STE1977 said:
Well thanks for all the help I really appreciate it.
I'm still in 2 minds about the amk, there's no history and he doesn't know the millage.
I don't want to do all that work and it be waste of time.
Do you think I could get away with just changing the rods and rings?
Click to expand...
Given the mileage on yours then its a tough call tbh...given what I have seen over the years I can tell you that any 1.8t with over 100k suffer from engine wear of some degree that would ideally need some remedial work...

Rods are rods... they are either bent or not... question is more when will that happen as to if...

Exhaust valves and the guides are an achilles heel of the 20v... guide wear is apparent from as little as 50k miles and ironically (decent) mapping tends to extend the life cycle due to running richer under power and generating less heat (which is the catalyst for the wear)... on high mileage engines its also not unusual to see pitting of the exhaust valve/seats too...

Bore wear is hugely subjective though... this seems to range from normalish wear (little bit of a lip at the top end of the bore thrust side from the rings) to oval bores...

At 244k miles yours has done well... would be difficult to say if a rod swap is worth while on your particular engine given the mileage and I would be changing the big end bearings too as part of it...

You would be into a set of rods, bearings, headgasket, timing belt kit (or at least a belt if you have had the belt service done fairly recently), headbolts, rings and oil/filter etc...

Swapping out to an unknown engine is always going to be a risk... but if you can't hear it running or do a proper inspection then at least thats a bargaining point...

I would also confirm that the knocking is rod related too before committing to just rods on yours... knocks like yours are either big ends or bent rod(s)... rare for big ends to go unless you have had an oil pressure related issue which I assume you haven't so only thing I can think of from experience is a bent rod...

The other potential problem is that the AMK may also suffer from rod failure at some point... as I mentioned before its typically a case of when rather than if for them sadly...

Depending on the price of the AMK the swap would arguably be the easiest and cheapest approach... if you have plans for the car beyond that then you could then build the APY up at your leisure and swap it back in then sell on the AMK after to recoup some cash plus at least you will have proof of it being any good so should help with the sale and pricing...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Given the mileage on yours then its a tough call tbh...given what I have seen over the years I can tell you that any 1.8t with over 100k suffer from engine wear of some degree that would ideally need some remedial work...

Rods are rods... they are either bent or not... question is more when will that happen as to if...

Exhaust valves and the guides are an achilles heel of the 20v... guide wear is apparent from as little as 50k miles and ironically (decent) mapping tends to extend the life cycle due to running richer under power and generating less heat (which is the catalyst for the wear)... on high mileage engines its also not unusual to see pitting of the exhaust valve/seats too...

Bore wear is hugely subjective though... this seems to range from normalish wear (little bit of a lip at the top end of the bore thrust side from the rings) to oval bores...

At 244k miles yours has done well... would be difficult to say if a rod swap is worth while on your particular engine given the mileage and I would be changing the big end bearings too as part of it...

You would be into a set of rods, bearings, headgasket, timing belt kit (or at least a belt if you have had the belt service done fairly recently), headbolts, rings and oil/filter etc...

Swapping out to an unknown engine is always going to be a risk... but if you can't hear it running or do a proper inspection then at least thats a bargaining point...

I would also confirm that the knocking is rod related too before committing to just rods on yours... knocks like yours are either big ends or bent rod(s)... rare for big ends to go unless you have had an oil pressure related issue which I assume you haven't so only thing I can think of from experience is a bent rod...

The other potential problem is that the AMK may also suffer from rod failure at some point... as I mentioned before its typically a case of when rather than if for them sadly...

Depending on the price of the AMK the swap would arguably be the easiest and cheapest approach... if you have plans for the car beyond that then you could then build the APY up at your leisure and swap it back in then sell on the AMK after to recoup some cash plus at least you will have proof of it being any good so should help with the sale and pricing...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Yeah I think I will have to go for an engine swap for now.
The amk was £200 with no history and unknown millage and I've just found a bam for £300 with 120k.
Thats from a breakers near me with a pretty good reputation so I think I will go for that one.
Thanks again for all the help I really appreciate it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: <tuffty/>
Don't over pay for a BAM mate... AMK is exactly the same engine mechanically.... and for that matter mechanically the same as your APY bar a couple of small differences like the VVT tensioner

The use the same block, crank, rods, pistons... 20v heads are pretty much the same castings across the range too

Basically the BAM is not worth 100 quid more than the AMK if they were essentially the same mileage and wear and tear....

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Don't over pay for a BAM mate... AMK is exactly the same engine mechanically.... and for that matter mechanically the same as your APY bar a couple of small differences like the VVT tensioner

The use the same block, crank, rods, pistons... 20v heads are pretty much the same castings across the range too

Basically the BAM is not worth 100 quid more than the AMK if they were essentially the same mileage and wear and tear....

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Yeah I would have gone for the amk but he doesn't know how many miles it's done and that's a private sale. I will have a bit of warranty with the bam engine.
And this might sound a bit daft but the amk came out of a cupra and the bam is out of a tt.
I'm thinking (hoping) the bam has had an easier life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: <tuffty/>
Look what I got delivered today. I hope it ****** works now
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210623_151431.jpg
    IMG_20210623_151431.jpg
    3.8 MB · Views: 96
A fair few of us have been there dude... feel your pain

<tuffty/>
 
  • Like
Reactions: S3AMJ
3 days putting that engine in and the engine is no good. Low oil pressure engine knocking. It's knocking more than the knocking engine I took out. I could do with some help guys has anyone got a good engine? I did put a post on the wanted section but nothing yet.
 
S3STE1977 said:
3 days putting that engine in and the engine is no good. Low oil pressure engine knocking. It's knocking more than the knocking engine I took out. I could do with some help guys has anyone got a good engine? I did put a post on the wanted section but nothing yet.
Click to expand...
Jeez, talk about bad luck. What did the ad say? That the engine was from a running and driving car?
 
Its warranted though? so at least you can sling it back at them...

Bad times dude... have you taken the bottom end off your old engine to see what was knocking? should be obvious if a rod is bent... maybe worth just replacing the bent rod to get you going again.... Ironically I chucked four 20mm std rods out this weekend on a engine build I was doing... that said I am pretty sure Bill will have std rods kicking about... if you have a look at your old engine it might be worth just replacing the bent one (assuming that is the reason of course)... if Bill had any I can't imagine he would want more than the cost of postage for them tbh...

<tuffty/>
 
ah... actually... just remembered... you do need to replace the rod studs on OE ones too as they are torque to yield....

I'll see if I can find a part number

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
ah... actually... just remembered... you do need to replace the rod studs on OE ones too as they are torque to yield....

I'll see if I can find a part number

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Yeah cheers pal. I'm not sure what to do about it just yet. I've been offered a grand for it as is with the old engine but I'm not going to get much with a grand. I'd like to open up the new engine and see what went in that one. It sounded pretty catastrophic when it went.
 
Part numbers for the rod studs...
Screenshot 2021 06 29 at 094307


You may also need a new squirter assuming it hasn't ripped it out of the block... if it has then thats game over but if its still 'knocking' then suggests its still in the block... its when the knocking goes away you need to worry :)

<tuffty/>
 
Well I'm going to have to sell the car. I've just bought a A3 tdi so it's over on the classified.
I'm absolutely gutted because I know I will probably not get another one not with the way the prices are going.
A big thank you to everyone that has helped I really appreciate it.
 
Any ideas why the chain has gone so slack? They're pretty deep grooves
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210629_185651.jpg
    IMG_20210629_185651.jpg
    2.8 MB · Views: 68
Which engine is that one? the tensioner has a piece missing from it

<tuffty/>
 
Right had a good luck around but I can't find that broken bit of the tensioner.
Will tensioner from the Apy engine fit the bam engine?
I'm hoping it is just the tensioner that's gone but I still need to find that other piece.
 
It will fit yes... as you have an APY you don't need the 'vvt' element of the BAM engine... I would advise using a new gasket and half moon seal though... these typically run to around 6-8 quid for the elring versions and are normally on eBay

<tuffty/>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Chicken Hawk
Small engine knocking noise
Replies
0
Views
718
Chicken Hawk
Chicken Hawk
AVLO
strange engine noise/knocking :-(
Replies
5
Views
864
A4sportMrT
A
D
knocking noise from engine
Replies
5
Views
1K
Dan s3 audi
D
s15rpy
knocking noise
Replies
0
Views
429
s15rpy
s15rpy
P
Knocking noise
Replies
5
Views
861
Bootstrap90
B
Top
Back