Enclosed CAI advise

Neuspeed was restrictive when mapping for both me and another S3 owner.
As I mentioned earlier, my stage 1+ was done with the smoothed but standard airbox in place. The well respected tuner said the airbox was holding things back a bit and so I went on the search for something that I liked the look of. He also said to avoid foam filters as if they are not maintained they can go dry and crusty and so little bits break off and get into the turbo causing damage. In my case that probably would not have happened as I keep well on top of maintenance. So I bought the Neuspeed. Not to be outdone, the Revo was getting good reviews as providing the best airflow so I sold the Neuspeed and bought the Revo selling the Revo foam straight away. Originally ran it with a green cotton dual cone which performed well and looked very good against my red paintwork. However, it turned a dirty yellow green colour so I fitted the Pro ram last year to smarten things up again. . The Revo foam would have been OK but I am always keen to do research and improve where I can to extract the max from the car.
It’s all a compromise really, the VWR appearance is not to everyone’s liking but is quieter. The Neuspeed pipework is a bit narrow for a 380bhp car but is very well made and fits perfectly.
The Revo flows probably the best but on some cars the foam filter rubs into the headlight. I even removed about 2 Cm from the end of the Revo pipe to keep my filter well away from the headlight.
 
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Neuspeed was restrictive when mapping for both me and another S3 owner.
As I mentioned earlier, my stage 1+ was done with the smoothed but standard airbox in place. The well respected tuner said the airbox was holding things back a bit and so I went on the search for something that I liked the look of. He also said to avoid foam filters as if they are not maintained they can go dry and crusty and so little bits break off and get into the turbo causing damage. In my case that probably would not have happened as I keep well on top of maintenance. So I bought the Neuspeed. Not to be outdone, the Revo was getting good reviews as providing the best airflow so I sold the Neuspeed and bought the Revo selling the Revo foam straight away. Originally ran it with a green cotton dual cone which performed well and looked very good against my red paintwork. However, it turned a dirty yellow green colour so I fitted the Pro ram last year to smarten things up again. . The Revo foam would have been OK but I am always keen to do research and improve where I can to extract the max from the car.
It’s all a compromise really, the VWR appearance is not to everyone’s liking but is quieter. The Neuspeed pipework is a bit narrow for a 380bhp car but is very well made and fits perfectly.
The Revo flows probably the best but on some cars the foam filter rubs into the headlight. I even removed about 2 Cm from the end of the Revo pipe to keep my filter well away from the headlight.

Ok bud yeah I've heard of the dry crumbling issue with foam filters,
Very informative and helpful write up mate thanks for your help, invaluable
 
Neuspeed was restrictive when mapping for both me and another S3 owner.
As I mentioned earlier, my stage 1+ was done with the smoothed but standard airbox in place. The well respected tuner said the airbox was holding things back a bit and so I went on the search for something that I liked the look of. He also said to avoid foam filters as if they are not maintained they can go dry and crusty and so little bits break off and get into the turbo causing damage. In my case that probably would not have happened as I keep well on top of maintenance. So I bought the Neuspeed. Not to be outdone, the Revo was getting good reviews as providing the best airflow so I sold the Neuspeed and bought the Revo selling the Revo foam straight away. Originally ran it with a green cotton dual cone which performed well and looked very good against my red paintwork. However, it turned a dirty yellow green colour so I fitted the Pro ram last year to smarten things up again. . The Revo foam would have been OK but I am always keen to do research and improve where I can to extract the max from the car.
It’s all a compromise really, the VWR appearance is not to everyone’s liking but is quieter. The Neuspeed pipework is a bit narrow for a 380bhp car but is very well made and fits perfectly.
The Revo flows probably the best but on some cars the foam filter rubs into the headlight. I even removed about 2 Cm from the end of the Revo pipe to keep my filter well away from the headlight.
I have that same thing is the corner of my revo filter is touching the headlight, is there any real benefit of my grinding a few inches of the pipe work?

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
 
I ran the std cover with a k&N panel filter for approx 3 years at stage 2+. Car was mapped by MRC and produced 338ps but with almost no lag and 550Nm (and MRC's dyno is more conservative than most - they've not seen more than 370ps from a stage 2+ car, whereas some tuners are claiming 380+).

I'm posting this in case you think you need to replace your std airbox to get some good power.
 
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I ran the std cover with a k&N panel filter for approx 3 years at stage 2+. Car was mapped by MRC and produced 338ps but with almost no lag and 550Nm (and MRC's dyno is more conservative than most - they've not seen more than 370ps from a stage 2+ car, whereas some tuners are claiming 380+).

I'm posting this in case you think you need to replace your std airbox to get some good power.
Hi buddy,
That's what I wanted to hear,
Every one seems to be saying I must have cai in order to extract the most and best power,
I currently run standard box with pioercross filter,
I am presuming your figures are being produced by an S3 not the ko3 2.0 tfsi that I have?
Thanks for your input and help
 
Hi buddy,
That's what I wanted to hear,
Every one seems to be saying I must have cai in order to extract the most and best power,
I currently run standard box with pioercross filter,
I am presuming your figures are being produced by an S3 not the ko3 2.0 tfsi that I have?
Thanks for your input and help

If you smooth the inside of the standard airbox it will help. Some of the internal struts can be removed too. In the early days of modding my S3 I wanted to keep the OE appearance and so bought a Samco silicone hose from Awesome that links between the airbox and the turbo so that the narrow concertina plastic pipe was removed. The theory was good but in reality the fit onto the airbox was poor and appearance with gaps here and there terrible! I returned the hose then bought the Neuspeed.
One thing the standard airbox reduces if you have a K04 turbo on a mapped car is the compressor surge between 3-4K revs. This you hear as a slight fluttering and the car holds back slightly. A decent custom map will avoid the surge line on a K04 if a CAI is being used.
RTech have seen higher than 370bhp on an S3 and I understand a reliable 390bhp is available if the rest of the hardware is designed for max flow with well over 400 ft lbs of torque.


I have that same thing is the corner of my revo filter is touching the headlight, is there any real benefit of my grinding a few inches of the pipe work?

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

I think a few inches would be too much. If you are running the heatshield you have to be careful so that the shorter pipe does not cause the filter to catch on it.
I don’t run the heatshield on my car and just rely on the air blasting in through the aperture in the grill.
 
If you smooth the inside of the standard airbox it will help. Some of the internal struts can be removed too. In the early days of modding my S3 I wanted to keep the OE appearance and so bought a Samco silicone hose from Awesome that links between the airbox and the turbo so that the narrow concertina plastic pipe was removed. The theory was good but in reality the fit onto the airbox was poor and appearance with gaps here and there terrible! I returned the hose then bought the Neuspeed.
One thing the standard airbox reduces if you have a K04 turbo on a mapped car is the compressor surge between 3-4K revs. This you hear as a slight fluttering and the car holds back slightly. A decent custom map will avoid the surge line on a K04 if a CAI is being used.
RTech have seen higher than 370bhp on an S3 and I understand a reliable 390bhp is available if the rest of the hardware is designed for max flow with well over 400 ft lbs of torque.




I think a few inches would be too much. If you are running the heatshield you have to be careful so that the shorter pipe does not cause the filter to catch on it.
I don’t run the heatshield on my car and just rely on the air blasting in through the aperture in the grill.
Not relevant to me bud as I run a ko3 and it's not an S3 lol but thanks anyway mate
 
Hi buddy,
That's what I wanted to hear,
Every one seems to be saying I must have cai in order to extract the most and best power,
I currently run standard box with pioercross filter,
I am presuming your figures are being produced by an S3 not the ko3 2.0 tfsi that I have?
Thanks for your input and help

Yes, mine was the K04 S3, so you are OK with the std airbox with the K03 imo as I believe it's the same engine cover / intake.

Also, I had the Samco turbo to std intake pipe fitted to my car. It was actually developed using my car, and made 12ps on MRC's dyno (my car was stage 1 then), but the main benefit was noticeably better pickup and less lag. MRC were skeptical before the runs, but you can't argue with the facts.

Samco intke tests0001
 
Yes, mine was the K04 S3, so you are OK with the std airbox with the K03 imo as I believe it's the same engine cover / intake.

Also, I had the Samco turbo to std intake pipe fitted to my car. It was actually developed using my car, and made 12ps on MRC's dyno (my car was stage 1 then), but the main benefit was noticeably better pickup and less lag. MRC were skeptical before the runs, but you can't argue with the facts.

View attachment 199247
Interesting stuff now your starting me on a whole new thread on turbo inlet outlet pipes,
I have been looking at the hard alloy pipes but my guy is saying they are a rip off, stating the guys at r tech think the same,
Any thoughts bud?
 
Yes, mine was the K04 S3, so you are OK with the std airbox with the K03 imo as I believe it's the same engine cover / intake.

Also, I had the Samco turbo to std intake pipe fitted to my car. It was actually developed using my car, and made 12ps on MRC's dyno (my car was stage 1 then), but the main benefit was noticeably better pickup and less lag. MRC were skeptical before the runs, but you can't argue with the facts.

View attachment 199247

Now that is very interesting in that your car was the development vehicle.
The engine cover was developed for the early AXX engines in the Mk 5 Golf Gti running 197 BHP with a K03 turbo. So a K04 based car will struggle to use the same air filter and housing then produce decent figures when mapped at stage 2+.
 
Now that is very interesting in that your car was the development vehicle.
The engine cover was developed for the early AXX engines in the Mk 5 Golf Gti running 197 BHP with a K03 turbo. So a K04 based car will struggle to use the same air filter and housing then produce decent figures when mapped at stage 2+.
Ok yes interesting so what you are saying is and correct me if I'm wrong,
If I go to 2+ with the ko3 that I have the standard box/ cover will be ok but should I go ko4 in future (which I was thinking of)
I would need to update the filter box?
 
Now that is very interesting in that your car was the development vehicle.
The engine cover was developed for the early AXX engines in the Mk 5 Golf Gti running 197 BHP with a K03 turbo. So a K04 based car will struggle to use the same air filter and housing then produce decent figures when mapped at stage 2+.
My engine builder says early S3 and 2.0 tfsi air box are identical
 
Ok yes interesting so what you are saying is and correct me if I'm wrong,
If I go to 2+ with the ko3 that I have the standard box/ cover will be ok but should I go ko4 in future (which I was thinking of)
I would need to update the filter box?

Yes, you have more headroom with the K03 turbo than the K04.
So you could see how it goes now but be prepared to upgrade in the future should you go down the K04 route.
I think people go down the CAI route which ever turbo they have in order to eliminate any thought of a restriction.
So my S3 with a K04 turbo produced 337 BHP on a stage 1+ map with the standard but smoothed airbox which is probably similar what you will see on your K03 at stage 2+. The benefit with the K03 is that you will feel it spooling from low revs whereas the K04 does not have as much low down but keeps on going to the red line better
 
Yes, you have more headroom with the K03 turbo than the K04.
So you could see how it goes now but be prepared to upgrade in the future should you go down the K04 route.
I think people go down the CAI route which ever turbo they have in order to eliminate any thought of a restriction.
So my S3 with a K04 turbo produced 337 BHP on a stage 1+ map with the standard but smoothed airbox which is probably similar what you will see on your K03 at stage 2+. The benefit with the K03 is that you will feel it spoiling from low revs whereas the K04 does not have as much low down but keeps on going to the red line better
Great news so theoretically how about if I go ko3 hybrid surely best of both worlds,
Also no need to alter the plumbing?
 
Interesting stuff now your starting me on a whole new thread on turbo inlet outlet pipes,
I have been looking at the hard alloy pipes but my guy is saying they are a rip off, stating the guys at r tech think the same,
Any thoughts bud?
Depends what you mean by hard turbo inlet/outlet pipes - I'm specifically talking about the pipe that goes in between the maf and the turbo.
 

I think it is CTS pipes that Awesome sell. Of the 2 pipes, the turbo outlet seems to have a little benefit but not so much for the inlet to the throttle body.
Also, the throttle body pipe can become a problem if a bigger intercooler is fitted as the radiator is pushed back more into the engine bay. I nearly had the turbo outlet pipe fitted last year when my car was at Awesome for some work but they had run out of stock!
 
Something like this?
This is an 3y old project that unfortunately came to a stop really quick.
Originaly reverse engineered from mk7r airbox but also at the time it was considered that it might fit 8p/mk5/6 platform with smaller bottom box because of coolant hoses.
And it does fit. It needs few modifications but it's possible.
Ignore the crack in the middle. It was 3d printed from basic material in multiple parts and then glued together to test the fitment.
 

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I think it is CTS pipes that Awesome sell. Of the 2 pipes, the turbo outlet seems to have a little benefit but not so much for the inlet to the throttle body.
Also, the throttle body pipe can become a problem if a bigger intercooler is fitted as the radiator is pushed back more into the engine bay. I nearly had the turbo outlet pipe fitted last year when my car was at Awesome for some work but they had run out of stock!
So not really worth it then I guess,
Thanks bud
 
Something like this?
This is an 3y old project that unfortunately came to a stop really quick.
Originaly reverse engineered from mk7r airbox but also at the time it was considered that it might fit 8p/mk5/6 platform with smaller bottom box because of coolant hoses.
And it does fit. It needs few modifications but it's possible.
Ignore the crack in the middle. It was 3d printed from basic material in multiple parts and then glued together to test the fitment.

Now that's what I'm talking about buddy,
Is the intake pipe larger and how does the air enter the box? It looks totaly sealed where has the original air scoop that fits to the front grill gone?
Do you have any figures for the improved performance?
 
Now that's what I'm talking about buddy,
Is the intake pipe larger and how does the air enter the box? It looks totaly sealed where has the original air scoop that fits to the front grill gone?
Do you have any figures for the improved performance?
It's test fitment prototype to check dimensions and fitment under the bonnet.
In this state it would melt under the bonnet.
At the back 90mm inox pipe is going to be inserted and then it can be mated to any 90 mm cai pipework with silicone hose
If you zoom the 2nd pic you can see the square hole in front of the bottom part. Air will be guided there from the original airscoop in front. This still needs tweaking because it was originaly designed for MQB platform.
 
I ran the std cover with a k&N panel filter for approx 3 years at stage 2+. Car was mapped by MRC and produced 338ps but with almost no lag and 550Nm (and MRC's dyno is more conservative than most - they've not seen more than 370ps from a stage 2+ car, whereas some tuners are claiming 380+).

Are you talking S3 or A3 when you say 370PS ?
Stg2+ is not just about the map but the overall state of the engine and its parts. BHP on stg2+ is a trade off with torque and again that's down to the map. If MRC dont get more than 370bhp then thats not surprising if that's what they map for. I got 381 because i wanted BHP over torque. As a biker i am used to getting power after 6k revs not 2k :)

Most maps are strangled by some other failing part, i got 350 bhp originally on stg 2+ but got that up to 381 10 days later on the same dyno with a Wagner IC, A part not really listed as necessary for stg2+ but crucial on my car as it turned out.
 
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It's test fitment prototype to check dimensions and fitment under the bonnet.
In this state it would melt under the bonnet.
At the back 90mm inox pipe is going to be inserted and then it can be mated to any 90 mm cai pipework with silicone hose
If you zoom the 2nd pic you can see the square hole in front of the bottom part. Air will be guided there from the original airscoop in front. This still needs tweaking because it was originaly designed for MQB platform.
Hey buddy how are you?
Just wondering if you got any further with this prototype?
 
^^^ you haven't figures this out yet! Its been years. Apparently, you are in love with Volant. It take up huge real estate in the engine bay and thats heat retention. Why don't you like APR carbon. Its a winner over here on this side of the pond with great reviews from those who run 1 and 2 stage. What specific negatives have you read and provide the source as nothing negative over here at any of our large Audi/VW meets. The only negatives I have heard come from a competing tuner name witheld
 
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^^^ you haven't figures this out yet! Its been years. Apparently, you are in love with Volant. It take up huge real estate in the engine bay and thats heat retention. Why don't you like APR carbon. Its a winner over here on this side of the pond with great reviews from those who run 1 and 2 stage. What specific negatives have you read and provide the source as nothing negative over here at any of our large Audi/VW meets. The only negatives I have heard come from a competing tuner name witheld
No I haven't mate because I'm just recovering from a life threatening illness that distracted me from cars for a while!!!
No not "in love" with the Volant but I liked the look of it yes.
Talking about heat, I'm of the mind that mandrel bent ally pipe intakes are surely going to get hotter than similar composite pipe intakes such as the autotech which I'm now looking at but have read it can be annoyingly noisy as it can whistle and the fit is a bit off so need tweaking. Evoms is looking like a good option for me right now, as it's also composite and a few over hear are saying it's not as noisy as others with good results.
As for the Apr carbonio it's just an air ram that attached to the stock airbox, people over here laugh about them as they usually all end up trying to sell them to get something that actually works. Unless you're talking about the other Apr carbon stage 2 which eliminates the old system and has pipework to the turbo?
Now that I do love the look of totally, but as far as I can see it's only made for the ea888 not the ea213 and even if someone corrects me saying it is available for my engine it's way to expensive for me buddy.
 
^^^ you haven't figures this out yet! Its been years. Apparently, you are in love with Volant. It take up huge real estate in the engine bay and thats heat retention. Why don't you like APR carbon. Its a winner over here on this side of the pond with great reviews from those who run 1 and 2 stage. What specific negatives have you read and provide the source as nothing negative over here at any of our large Audi/VW meets. The only negatives I have heard come from a competing tuner name witheld
Yeah the negatives are from end users not tuners, most people don't like the air ram one that fits into existing stock box saying it does nothing.
 
Seems to me you are massively over thinking this, its highly probable that the std intake/filter setup on a Ko3 is more than adequate and you would do better to upgrade your intercooler if you think heat is your issue.
 
Seems to me you are massively over thinking this, its highly probable that the std intake/filter setup on a Ko3 is more than adequate and you would do better to upgrade your intercooler if you think heat is your issue.
Hi mate, no never said heat was my issue I was just replying to the guys comments about the Volant possibly having heat issues.
I have S3 alloy fmic.
Thanks for your comments though, every ones opinions are greatly appreciated.
Oh and yep I do overthink everything in my life lol, just ask my kids and partner
 
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Seems to me you are massively over thinking this, its highly probable that the std intake/filter setup on a Ko3 is more than adequate and you would do better to upgrade your intercooler if you think heat is your issue.
Just trying to work out if I need a CAI like Amd told me when they did the stg 2. They seemed to think the pipercross panel filter and the stock box where really holding things back. Problem I have is Im happy to upgrade if that's the general consensus but I really don't want boy racer noise at my age, I've done all that. Don't mind a little more growl but nothing silly and I'm on a budget also, I just think most CAI are soooo grossly overpriced for essentially a tube with a filter on the end. Any input greatly appreciated mate thanks
 
Noise was an important factor for me as well as i am knocking on a bit now.... The VWR is barely noticeable and when you do hear it, its an air rushing sound bit like letting a tyre down :)
It also draws air from the outside, not a partitioned off area under the bonnet, probably why its so quiet. That said its not cheap but then performance never is. It does need cleaning and oiling every 6 months or you notice fuel consumption go up.

An S3 engine will show 260/300bhp on a std filter, i know yours is not s3 but it shows that the filter is not really an obstacle at that power, above that its worth changing IMHO
the higher the performance the more small changes make a difference. when i first had 2+ i had 350 bhp, the following week i fitted a bigger IC and got 382bhp other wise the same set up. Not because it cooled air better, it just flowed better i think. Quite often these things collect oil in the bottom so its worth just checking every now and then........
Unfortunately a lot is trial and error and that is an expensive route unless you get it right first time.

One other point without getting boring ............
People look at what power different parts will add but really each part depends on the other parts doing their job. for that reason its a complete package of parts that complement each other that works rather than individual parts.

good luck :cool:
 
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Noise was an important factor for me as well as i am knocking on a bit now.... The VWR is barely noticeable and when you do hear it, its an air rushing sound bit like letting a tyre down :)
It also draws air from the outside, not a partitioned off area under the bonnet, probably why its so quiet. That said its not cheap but then performance never is. It does need cleaning and oiling every 6 months or you notice fuel consumption go up.

An S3 engine will show 260/300bhp on a std filter, i know yours is not s3 but it shows that the filter is not really an obstacle at that power, above that its worth changing IMHO
the higher the performance the more small changes make a difference. when i first had 2+ i had 350 bhp, the following week i fitted a bigger IC and got 382bhp other wise the same set up. Not because it cooled air better, it just flowed better i think. Quite often these things collect oil in the bottom so its worth just checking every now and then........
Unfortunately a lot is trial and error and that is an expensive route unless you get it right first time.

One other point without getting boring ............
People look at what power different parts will add but really each part depends on the other parts doing their job. for that reason its a complete package of parts that complement each other that works rather than individual parts.

good luck :cool:
Yes I'd love the vwr but I just can't justify that cost sadly, youre so right re the ic collecting oil at the bottom is this normal? Surely not.
Im guessing I will be happy for now with what I have. My figures aren't to bad for what I have I've attached print out, springs n struts are just done as are brakes and dogbone, so maybe rear arb and some bushes on the front for now. Tighten up handling. If I did go more power it would be the hpfp which would defo need the intake and then a clutch as im manual. That's getting big money so May as well focus on handling and tidying up the outside. Wheels getting refurbed next week which should really improve things.
Then a proper detail to buff out some age related marks.
Yes I get it re everything working in harmony so far so good very happy. It was just Amd saying I needed the CAI as it was holding things back that kind of threw me. I shall just keep an eye out for good used one on eBay. How do I access parts for sale on here mate? I take it there is a for sale section?
Thanks for your time and valuable advice buddy
 
Noise was an important factor for me as well as i am knocking on a bit now.... The VWR is barely noticeable and when you do hear it, its an air rushing sound bit like letting a tyre down :)
It also draws air from the outside, not a partitioned off area under the bonnet, probably why its so quiet. That said its not cheap but then performance never is. It does need cleaning and oiling every 6 months or you notice fuel consumption go up.

An S3 engine will show 260/300bhp on a std filter, i know yours is not s3 but it shows that the filter is not really an obstacle at that power, above that its worth changing IMHO
the higher the performance the more small changes make a difference. when i first had 2+ i had 350 bhp, the following week i fitted a bigger IC and got 382bhp other wise the same set up. Not because it cooled air better, it just flowed better i think. Quite often these things collect oil in the bottom so its worth just checking every now and then........
Unfortunately a lot is trial and error and that is an expensive route unless you get it right first time.

One other point without getting boring ............
People look at what power different parts will add but really each part depends on the other parts doing their job. for that reason its a complete package of parts that complement each other that works rather than individual parts.

good luck :cool:
Sorry forgot to attach this
 

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Hi Julian
I an no expert with cars, i am a biker person but looking at your chart i would say if there was a restriction caused by the air box its going to show at max revs. and any improvement is going to be therefore above 5000rpm however these maps are often designed to give bottom end torque which will always come at the expense of top end BHP
I found this in the charts section


At the top of the page it shows your set up with a ram air and its not producing more power than yours.

If you click forums and go to the bottom of that page you will find classifieds.
 
Hey buddy how are you?
Just wondering if you got any further with this prototype?
Hi.
Just fine. Thank you.
No i haven't.
I've made aonther box with airfeed around itg maxogen intake and been using that one. Keeps the air filter/inlet away from engine heat. But it's still loud.
This got postphoned as it needs adapting for ea113 engine (almost completely new 3d model).
Also, resistant printing materials are really expensive.
I will probably make one but when i don't know.
 
Hi.
Just fine. Thank you.
No i haven't.
I've made aonther box with airfeed around itg maxogen intake and been using that one. Keeps the air filter/inlet away from engine heat. But it's still loud.
This got postphoned as it needs adapting for ea113 engine (almost completely new 3d model).
Also, resistant printing materials are really expensive.
I will probably make one but when i don't know.
Ahh ok I see. Understand mate, well good luck and keep me posted as very interested in this project of yours
 

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