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Enclosed CAI advise

Julian smith Mar 13, 2020

  1. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    Neuspeed was restrictive when mapping for both me and another S3 owner.
    As I mentioned earlier, my stage 1+ was done with the smoothed but standard airbox in place. The well respected tuner said the airbox was holding things back a bit and so I went on the search for something that I liked the look of. He also said to avoid foam filters as if they are not maintained they can go dry and crusty and so little bits break off and get into the turbo causing damage. In my case that probably would not have happened as I keep well on top of maintenance. So I bought the Neuspeed. Not to be outdone, the Revo was getting good reviews as providing the best airflow so I sold the Neuspeed and bought the Revo selling the Revo foam straight away. Originally ran it with a green cotton dual cone which performed well and looked very good against my red paintwork. However, it turned a dirty yellow green colour so I fitted the Pro ram last year to smarten things up again. . The Revo foam would have been OK but I am always keen to do research and improve where I can to extract the max from the car.
    It’s all a compromise really, the VWR appearance is not to everyone’s liking but is quieter. The Neuspeed pipework is a bit narrow for a 380bhp car but is very well made and fits perfectly.
    The Revo flows probably the best but on some cars the foam filter rubs into the headlight. I even removed about 2 Cm from the end of the Revo pipe to keep my filter well away from the headlight.
     
    e9_mustii likes this.
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  3. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Ok bud yeah I've heard of the dry crumbling issue with foam filters,
    Very informative and helpful write up mate thanks for your help, invaluable
     
  4. e9_mustii

    e9_mustii Registered User

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    I have that same thing is the corner of my revo filter is touching the headlight, is there any real benefit of my grinding a few inches of the pipe work?

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  5. nluk100

    nluk100 Registered User

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    I ran the std cover with a k&N panel filter for approx 3 years at stage 2+. Car was mapped by MRC and produced 338ps but with almost no lag and 550Nm (and MRC's dyno is more conservative than most - they've not seen more than 370ps from a stage 2+ car, whereas some tuners are claiming 380+).

    I'm posting this in case you think you need to replace your std airbox to get some good power.
     
  6. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Hi buddy,
    That's what I wanted to hear,
    Every one seems to be saying I must have cai in order to extract the most and best power,
    I currently run standard box with pioercross filter,
    I am presuming your figures are being produced by an S3 not the ko3 2.0 tfsi that I have?
    Thanks for your input and help
     
  7. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    If you smooth the inside of the standard airbox it will help. Some of the internal struts can be removed too. In the early days of modding my S3 I wanted to keep the OE appearance and so bought a Samco silicone hose from Awesome that links between the airbox and the turbo so that the narrow concertina plastic pipe was removed. The theory was good but in reality the fit onto the airbox was poor and appearance with gaps here and there terrible! I returned the hose then bought the Neuspeed.
    One thing the standard airbox reduces if you have a K04 turbo on a mapped car is the compressor surge between 3-4K revs. This you hear as a slight fluttering and the car holds back slightly. A decent custom map will avoid the surge line on a K04 if a CAI is being used.
    RTech have seen higher than 370bhp on an S3 and I understand a reliable 390bhp is available if the rest of the hardware is designed for max flow with well over 400 ft lbs of torque.


    I think a few inches would be too much. If you are running the heatshield you have to be careful so that the shorter pipe does not cause the filter to catch on it.
    I don’t run the heatshield on my car and just rely on the air blasting in through the aperture in the grill.
     
  8. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Not relevant to me bud as I run a ko3 and it's not an S3 lol but thanks anyway mate
     
  9. nluk100

    nluk100 Registered User

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    Yes, mine was the K04 S3, so you are OK with the std airbox with the K03 imo as I believe it's the same engine cover / intake.

    Also, I had the Samco turbo to std intake pipe fitted to my car. It was actually developed using my car, and made 12ps on MRC's dyno (my car was stage 1 then), but the main benefit was noticeably better pickup and less lag. MRC were skeptical before the runs, but you can't argue with the facts.

    samco intke tests0001.jpg
     
  10. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Interesting stuff now your starting me on a whole new thread on turbo inlet outlet pipes,
    I have been looking at the hard alloy pipes but my guy is saying they are a rip off, stating the guys at r tech think the same,
    Any thoughts bud?
     
  11. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    Now that is very interesting in that your car was the development vehicle.
    The engine cover was developed for the early AXX engines in the Mk 5 Golf Gti running 197 BHP with a K03 turbo. So a K04 based car will struggle to use the same air filter and housing then produce decent figures when mapped at stage 2+.
     
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  13. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Ok yes interesting so what you are saying is and correct me if I'm wrong,
    If I go to 2+ with the ko3 that I have the standard box/ cover will be ok but should I go ko4 in future (which I was thinking of)
    I would need to update the filter box?
     
  14. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    My engine builder says early S3 and 2.0 tfsi air box are identical
     
  15. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    Yes, you have more headroom with the K03 turbo than the K04.
    So you could see how it goes now but be prepared to upgrade in the future should you go down the K04 route.
    I think people go down the CAI route which ever turbo they have in order to eliminate any thought of a restriction.
    So my S3 with a K04 turbo produced 337 BHP on a stage 1+ map with the standard but smoothed airbox which is probably similar what you will see on your K03 at stage 2+. The benefit with the K03 is that you will feel it spooling from low revs whereas the K04 does not have as much low down but keeps on going to the red line better
     
  16. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    Exactly, this is why you have more headroom on a mapped K03 compared to a mapped K04
     
  17. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Great news so theoretically how about if I go ko3 hybrid surely best of both worlds,
    Also no need to alter the plumbing?
     
  18. nluk100

    nluk100 Registered User

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    Depends what you mean by hard turbo inlet/outlet pipes - I'm specifically talking about the pipe that goes in between the maf and the turbo.
     
  19. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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  20. nluk100

    nluk100 Registered User

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  21. prt57

    prt57 Registered User

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    I think it is CTS pipes that Awesome sell. Of the 2 pipes, the turbo outlet seems to have a little benefit but not so much for the inlet to the throttle body.
    Also, the throttle body pipe can become a problem if a bigger intercooler is fitted as the radiator is pushed back more into the engine bay. I nearly had the turbo outlet pipe fitted last year when my car was at Awesome for some work but they had run out of stock!
     
  22. S.

    S. Save the manuals

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    Something like this?
    This is an 3y old project that unfortunately came to a stop really quick.
    Originaly reverse engineered from mk7r airbox but also at the time it was considered that it might fit 8p/mk5/6 platform with smaller bottom box because of coolant hoses.
    And it does fit. It needs few modifications but it's possible.
    Ignore the crack in the middle. It was 3d printed from basic material in multiple parts and then glued together to test the fitment.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    So not really worth it then I guess,
    Thanks bud
     
  24. Julian smith

    Julian smith Registered User

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    Now that's what I'm talking about buddy,
    Is the intake pipe larger and how does the air enter the box? It looks totaly sealed where has the original air scoop that fits to the front grill gone?
    Do you have any figures for the improved performance?
     
  25. S.

    S. Save the manuals

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    It's test fitment prototype to check dimensions and fitment under the bonnet.
    In this state it would melt under the bonnet.
    At the back 90mm inox pipe is going to be inserted and then it can be mated to any 90 mm cai pipework with silicone hose
    If you zoom the 2nd pic you can see the square hole in front of the bottom part. Air will be guided there from the original airscoop in front. This still needs tweaking because it was originaly designed for MQB platform.
     
  26. paddy

    paddy Registered User

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    Are you talking S3 or A3 when you say 370PS ?
    Stg2+ is not just about the map but the overall state of the engine and its parts. BHP on stg2+ is a trade off with torque and again that's down to the map. If MRC dont get more than 370bhp then thats not surprising if that's what they map for. I got 381 because i wanted BHP over torque. As a biker i am used to getting power after 6k revs not 2k :)

    Most maps are strangled by some other failing part, i got 350 bhp originally on stg 2+ but got that up to 381 10 days later on the same dyno with a Wagner IC, A part not really listed as necessary for stg2+ but crucial on my car as it turned out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020

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