emissions fix

57mab57

Registered User
I have a 2012 plate 2.0 DTI (138) which has the 'emissions problem'. I have recently received a letter to take my car into the local Audi garage to have the software corrected. Has anyone had theirs done yet? Was there any noticeable difference (miles per gallon, torque, power) before and after?
 

Dannymoto

Registered User
I have received this letter also but haven't personally been to get it update - interested in the difference though.
 

FaisalFazeli

@S333FSL
VCDS Map User
Ive booked mine in tomorow being done, they say there wont be any difference..
 

lfcrule1972

Winter is coming...

Carefree69

Registered User
Not getting mine done, it runs perfectly fine as it is thank you very much.

The "fix" won't affect performance or mpg? Hmmmmm I'd rather not find out.
 

audismart

YOU ARE JUDGED BY THE CAR YOU DRIVE.
There trying to remove the emissions cheat device, so will probably effect the emissions at idle, when at mot time and when holding certain revs in laboratory test conditions to pass diesel particulate tax brackets that sold more cars, unlikely they will make people stump up more money in road tax as they are now in the higher tax band, will they??? well they might??? who knows, maybe the government has made a deal, its all a scam.
 

lfcrule1972

Winter is coming...
Owners can't be forced to pay more in road tax because Audi cheated the emissions. That would be a call for compensation for sure :)
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
There trying to remove the emissions cheat device, so will probably effect the emissions at idle, when at mot time and when holding certain revs in laboratory test conditions to pass diesel particulate tax brackets that sold more cars, unlikely they will make people stump up more money in road tax as they are now in the higher tax band, will they??? well they might??? who knows, maybe the government has made a deal, its all a scam.

Owners can't be forced to pay more in road tax because Audi cheated the emissions. That would be a call for compensation for sure :)

The software cheat related to NOx emissions. Currently VED is only charged based on CO2 emissions. Therefore it won't have any affect on VED.

If you look through that thread lfcrule linked to you will see a dyno plot that an A5 had done before and after the fix. It would seem that Audi are removing the software, and then remapping the engine to compensate for any power loss as part of the fix. The plot shows a reduction in power at low end, but the user reported no difference in the way it drove. Also reported higher MPG.

Given the adverse affects of increased NOx, and the relatively little change in performance, I would say its probably a good idea to have the fix.

Take it that you will lose your map as it will wipe the current ECU?

If you have a remap already...then yea thats tricky! Would speak to your tuner to see if they are willing to re-apply the map after?
 

downtothebone

Registered User
Not getting mine done, it runs perfectly fine as it is thank you very much.

The "fix" won't affect performance or mpg? Hmmmmm I'd rather not find out.
Does it affect the environment or is that not really a worthwhile issue?
 

Tomas Sears

Registered User
I got mine done today, so far no difference (only drove to Tesco and back home so not far)
No compensation, but I got a free wash and got to pick something out of a special cabinet for my troubles! Nothing special, but I chose the wash kit as I liked the bag!
 

Carefree69

Registered User
Does it affect the environment or is that not really a worthwhile issue?

I didn't realise that Sting was a member here too :shrug:

Yup the environment is totally worthwhile mate, but so are my finances. If you wanna have a pop at someone perhaps you should direct your attention to VW, it's thier screw up not mine.

And seeing as you are so concerned about the environment I take it you'll be ditching your car to buy a pushbike instead?

Thought not:hi:
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
Yup the environment is totally worthwhile mate, but so are my finances. If you wanna have a pop at someone perhaps you should direct your attention to VW, it's thier screw up not mine.

Couldn't agree more mate, this is an issue between VW and air quality agencies and government groups. The customers have been sold the lie...

Just one thing though...why would this affect your finances? Also, given the objective evidence that it has very little effect on performance, and the subjective evidence that performance feels better and MPG might be improved, why you would not opt for the update?
 

Carefree69

Registered User
Couldn't agree more mate, this is an issue between VW and air quality agencies and government groups. The customers have been sold the lie...

Just one thing though...why would this affect your finances? Also, given the objective evidence that it has very little effect on performance, and the subjective evidence that performance feels better and MPG might be improved, why you would not opt for the update?

I'm not saying it will affect my finances mate, just that it might IF the so called "fix" has a detrimental effect on mpg. VW have said it won't affect either performance or mpg......the very same company who duped the industry and their customers for years over the cheat software.

As for this "subjective evidence" I'd really like to read up on it, I didn't even know such "evidence" existed.

If a credible person/organisation confirmed beyond all doubt that this "fix" would have no detrimental effect on the car I paid a lot of money for then I'd probably get it done. However, until then I'd rather not fix what isn't broken.
 

Phil74

Registered User
Had mine done and it's made the engine louder and seems to idle loud too . I noticed straight away. They have said I can go back and go out with a technician (for a test drive not a drink) 100% wish id signed the disclaimer and not had it done but felt like I might regret saying no at the time and having to pay later when it all flares up again. You can say no but you will have to put your signature down .
All true.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I'm not saying it will affect my finances mate, just that it might IF the so called "fix" has a detrimental effect on mpg. VW have said it won't affect either performance or mpg......the very same company who duped the industry and their customers for years over the cheat software.

As for this "subjective evidence" I'd really like to read up on it, I didn't even know such "evidence" existed.

If a credible person/organisation confirmed beyond all doubt that this "fix" would have no detrimental effect on the car I paid a lot of money for then I'd probably get it done. However, until then I'd rather not fix what isn't broken.

I suspect you mean objective evidence, as the thread linked above is littered with peoples subjective experience of the car post update.

I linked it in the thread above as well, but here is a thread created over on A5OC who had a dyno done before and after the update. Thats about the only objective evidence I have come across.

http://www.a5oc.com/forums/a5-general-q/130961-anybody-had-nox-emmissions.html
 

Retroman

Audi A3 2010 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 (CBBB engine)
I have some sympathy with VAG. The US has an extremely litigious society and the US has no real successful history of producing diesel engines. I would guess that European diesels were eating into the sales of their own US cars. Traditionally, they like big petrol engines in the US – are they any better for the environment? Did VAG really “cheat”? These were unrealistic, laboratory style tests that everybody acknowledges didn’t match the “real World”. All VAG did was produce a software map that took advantage of an unrealistic test – isn’t it something like a boxer who diets and avoids fluids just before the weigh-in to temporarily get below the weight limit by a few ounces?
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I have some sympathy with VAG. The US has an extremely litigious society and the US has no real successful history of producing diesel engines. I would guess that European diesels were eating into the sales of their own US cars. Traditionally, they like big petrol engines in the US – are they any better for the environment? Did VAG really “cheat”? These were unrealistic, laboratory style tests that everybody acknowledges didn’t match the “real World”. All VAG did was produce a software map that took advantage of an unrealistic test – isn’t it something like a boxer who diets and avoids fluids just before the weigh-in to temporarily get below the weight limit by a few ounces?

I see what you're saying, but I think the deciet and impact is greater than you portray. The tests are daft, but they weren't just taking advantage of them, but actually distorting the readings to give false readings. Not just slightly less either, by 2/3 times they actual amount. The motivation to do this was purely driven by increasing profits.... I can't help but feel like calling this an 'environmental' issue does a deservice in hiding the severity of the effect. As above, emissions from diesels have been classed as carcinogenic. That's why I've stated I don't think this is environmental per se, but actually a public health problem. I personally don't think that is any less or more important than environmental issues from emissions like CO2, but it arguably has a more immediate and personal affect on you and your family.

I agree, big petrols can hardly hold the moral ground with increased CO2, but the figures aren't being manipulated by cheat devices and petrol owners are currently paying for it through increased VED. I would argue they are not really comparable, but it's a fair point.
 

FaisalFazeli

@S333FSL
VCDS Map User
yup, feel a small difference in loss of power. rejected the wash, but they did hand me an audi bag with some cleaning products inside for free.. think thats all they are offering
 

Rog_B

Registered User
They will not being going near mine. They lied and screwed up. Fine. I don't see why that should affect my car, which runs fine. I'm not jumping cos Audi say jump. When my warranty ended years ago, they didn't care what happened to my car after that, did they?
If they really want to make amends, they can offer the same package they offered the USA. Proper compensation and / or buyback.
Until then, VAG, you can swivel!
And no I couldn't care less about resale value, it's a nice car that I will run for some years I suppose.
And I don't need a car wash or a wash bag:-D
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
They will not being going near mine. They lied and screwed up. Fine. I don't see why that should affect my car, which runs fine. I'm not jumping cos Audi say jump. When my warranty ended years ago, they didn't care what happened to my car after that, did they?
If they really want to make amends, they can offer the same package they offered the USA. Proper compensation and / or buyback.
Until then, VAG, you can swivel!
And no I couldn't care less about resale value, it's a nice car that I will run for some years I suppose.
And I don't need a car wash or a wash bag:-D

I would get the logic of your argument if this was being instigated by Audi, but it isn't. They are doing this because they have to. They would of happily left it as it was if they weren't found out.

It would seem that the fix would change nothing but the amount of NOx (supposedly...I've yet to see any evidence that it actually does reduce this...!).

If I were you my main concern would be if/when MOT regulations on diesel emissions become stricter. Surely that would force your hand to have the fix?

I agree, a free wash bag and car wash that scratches my car wouldn't feel like much in the way of compensation to me...!
 

Retroman

Audi A3 2010 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 (CBBB engine)
They will not being going near mine.
I tend to agree with you. The whole thing is bit of a joke. Many older diesels and commercial vehicles continue to pump many more times **** into the atmosphere. This VW “scandal” was pursued by litigious US lawyers, protecting their local car industry, and only applies to a narrow range of VW engines that would fall out of the system over time anyway. Add to this the many “tuning firms” in my area (probably the same across the UK) that are now booked up weeks in advance as owners get their DPFs removed. Nox has never been measured in the UK MOT. Not sure I’ll bother to attend a recall either.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
I tend to agree with you. The whole thing is bit of a joke. Many older diesels and commercial vehicles continue to pump many more times **** into the atmosphere. This VW “scandal” was pursued by litigious US lawyers, protecting their local car industry, and only applies to a narrow range of VW engines that would fall out of the system over time anyway. Add to this the many “tuning firms” in my area (probably the same across the UK) that are now booked up weeks in advance as owners get their DPFs removed. Nox has never been measured in the UK MOT. Not sure I’ll bother to attend a recall either.

Again, the logic doesn't add up to me. Older diesels are more polluting but fall under different regulations. The difference here is that these cars fail the emissions regulations they were meant to pass, but don't because of a known software cheat.

What I don't understand is that it it doesn't seem to affect the car, only the emissions, so why would you not do it? If it affected performance and economy, then fine, but there is no evidence to suggest it does?

Surely all of this limelight on diesels will only make it more likely that emissions will become part of the MOT? That's why I think people who are getting their DPF removed are taking a rather big risk...
 

Rog_B

Registered User
I would get the logic of your argument if this was being instigated by Audi, but it isn't. They are doing this because they have to. They would of happily left it as it was if they weren't found out.

It would seem that the fix would change nothing but the amount of NOx (supposedly...I've yet to see any evidence that it actually does reduce this...!).

If I were you my main concern would be if/when MOT regulations on diesel emissions become stricter. Surely that would force your hand to have the fix?

I agree, a free wash bag and car wash that scratches my car wouldn't feel like much in the way of compensation to me...!

Rather than worry about what might happen if... so no, I am not bothered about the fix for a possible tightening of emissions past 2018.
I take comfort from all the other 2009 diesels from all manufacturers. They all need to pass the MOT.
I can't see the MOT station going: "Oh here comes a VAG diesel, wind down that NOx tolerance dial, Fred!"
 

lfcrule1972

Winter is coming...
My wife has a 2012 1.6 A1 diesel and the letters she's received so far suggest a different type of fix than for the other diesels that cheated the emissions tests.

So much so that Audi were promising to develop the fix by the end of the year, nothing yet but I'll be interested to see what they want to do to it....
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
Rather than worry about what might happen if... so no, I am not bothered about the fix for a possible tightening of emissions past 2018.
I take comfort from all the other 2009 diesels from all manufacturers. They all need to pass the MOT.
I can't see the MOT station going: "Oh here comes a VAG diesel, wind down that NOx tolerance dial, Fred!"

But there is no if...plenty or reports and evidence that there is no change?

And as far as I know no other manufacturer has used software cheats, so they will all pass their MOT since they will be in accordance with the EU5 regulations at the time they were manufactured. The whole point of the cheat is that these current VAG cars don't currently meet EU5 regulations....

New tighter EU regulations won't affect you, just introduction of new tests which highlight the cheating emissions.
 

lfcrule1972

Winter is coming...
So does the cheat software only affect cars that are less than three years old ?

Isn't the point that if you don't have it done it will still pass the MOT as the software is still in place ? I've not read anything about the MOT tests or systems being updated to detect VAG cars with the cheat software still in place and to make adjustments because of it.....

I think that would require way more intervention than the UK government is interested in
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
ANY car thats involved with the 'emissions' fixing WILL pass a UK MOT, purely because the fact that NOX isnt currently tested on current UK MOTs....and I dont see it as being a future one either as would be too expensive to implement as I guess the NOX will change depending on engine loads, fuelling etc, which cant be tested with the vehicle stationary in a MOT station.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
The cheat software detects when the car is being tested for EU regulations. The situation during an MOT would be different.

I just can't see how they wouldn't do anything? Surely sensors or the like could be implemented to check emissions beyond CO2?

There is talk about doing it to stamp out DPF removal, since obviously the current visual test and smoke test wouldn't pick up a gutted DPF. If they can tell it's too high and therefore the DPF is not there, wouldn't it be simple to give a reading and determine whether it exceeds the EU emissions for the year the car was manufactured?
 

lfcrule1972

Winter is coming...
A few friends of mine removed the DPF, well hollowed them out, on their DS3 diesels, they smoked like old style diesels after having it done - one even ended up with black emissions all over the back of the car. I can't understand how the smoke test in an MOT wouldn't see this - we could when compared to DS3s with the DPF still in place.....

I understand what you're saying DrEskimo but I still revert to my position that the UK Govt doesn't seem bothered enough to make any changes.
 

DrEskimo

Registered User
A few friends of mine removed the DPF, well hollowed them out, on their DS3 diesels, they smoked like old style diesels after having it done - one even ended up with black emissions all over the back of the car. I can't understand how the smoke test in an MOT wouldn't see this - we could when compared to DS3s with the DPF still in place.....

I understand what you're saying DrEskimo but I still revert to my position that the UK Govt doesn't seem bothered enough to make any changes.

Ha I know...to be fair it's probably because they haven't had a decent map on them. A well done one doesn't smoke much I don't think?

Yea fair enough. I certainly share your skeptism of our government doing anything useful or proactive....!
 
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