DTUK 184ps box for 2WD A3

[smk82]

After several weeks worth of reading various threads, querying DTUK directly as well as Ben at Shark Performance and a couple of other tuning firms, I finally decided to dip my toe into the tuning box market. If I'm honest its the price point at the moment in time which swung it, (tuning box + insurance cost approx half the price of a remap/sts box) + the potential of keeping warranty intact (still have 18months to go NB - I say potential as I'm not naive enough to say it certainly will be, everything can be traced if you look hard enough/nit pick but I'm willing to take a calculated risk)

1 CRD-T+ 184ps tuning box ordered today. I know that this has probably been discussed before, but most of the posts by people recently seem to be regards
- the petrol tuning boxes (i.e. S3s etc)
- quite old in some cases
- more regards the 150ps diesel.
- or based on the quattro A3 systems..

Once it arrives tomorrow (hopefully!), I will fit it and trial it for a couple of days before removing it for a bit (I have my first service/oil change coming up in a couple of hundred miles), so want plenty of time for any potential codes/fault logs from sensors etc to be pushed back in time/minimised.

I don't want the thread to turn into a remap vs tuning box debate. I know after reading many many forums that everyone has their own opinions on the matter (some good/some bad). I'm simply looking to record my experiences for interested people.

 

[Rob2k68]

There are lots of threads on this CRD-T+ box known as Trevor over at the Seat forum as the FR diesel in the mk3 Leon has the same engine. Might be useful to see what experiences those guys have had and the preferred map setting.

 

[smk82]

I know. Ive read through most of them and on the vw forums about the gtd. Still thought it might have intrest to those on here

 

[Rob2k68]

Yes absolutely was just thinking that it would give you a good insight and help you get up and running if you hadn't seen them before.

 

[Rob2k68]

I had exactly the same box fitted to my current car a 184Fr and it certainly did what it said on the tin no qualms there. I sent it back after a week as the car was very badly under braked and no longer a balanced drive.

Hopefully the Audi brakes are more powerful stoppers.

 

[smk82]

We will see. Do we know whay brakes are fitted to each car?

 

[smk82]

We will see. Do we know what brakes are fitted to each car? Was it only under heavy braking you noticed this? Didnt see many reports of this regards the gtd, so maybe its linked to whatever they fitted to SEAT as OEM?

 

[Rob2k68]

Yes just under heavy braking with standard brakes - not sure if disc and calipers are the same across VAG. A good set of performance pads would probably of cured it but I didn't want to go there as this type of thing usual snowballs into other mods and I didn't plan on keeping the car that long.

 

[steeve]

I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on with it.

 

[smk82]

Well it turned up before 12 and has now just been installed☺. No engine management lights apparent when the ignition was on, so fingers crossed. Easy enough to install despite the cold.fingers! Just need to find a slightly neater way to route.the cables. Starting on program 1 ( which is what it shipped with).

 

[Matt R]

Looking forward to feedback on this!

 

[smk82]

OK minor update after the drive home. Before I left I tweaked the hose routing (moved the rail hose into the bunch in the heat shielded cloth above the engine - which I figured would keep it out of the way nicely). I also shifted the program to 1+1 after querying DTUK what they were finding gave good results with this engine (1+1 or 2+1 were the responses, with recommendation not to go above +2).

I drove off normally (no engine management lights - phew. ), and let the engine get to temperature before I tried to put my foot down a bit. Accelerating up the slip road onto the A329(M), I actually noticed a bit of wheelspin (but it is a bit greasy out there!), before a more defined torque surge to get me up to speed. Very good fun!

There is definitely less lag involved, power appears to be more instant and doesn't seem to tail off , although to be fair I wasn't booting it till I get more confident. The engine seemed more eager, and there is a more noticeable shove in the back when you put your foot to the floor. The only minor I noticed is there was a slight smell in the cabin, initially I thought it could be

1) the clutch
2) DPF regen as would be running slightly hotter (although I don't have an exact figure on this as the A3 doesn't show oil temp - a required VCDS mod I think)

I dismissed 1 immediately as I figured that if it was the clutch, I know about it!!, it would be stronger, I wasn't booting it and the box had only been on the car for 10mins!!, not to mention I'd see warning lights or something!, so suspecting a regen.. Will see if the smell disappates over the next couple of days. Having a sniff around once I got home, it seemed to come from towards the rear, but oddly couldn't smell much by the exhaust?

As SWTSMBO is away tomorrow I can spend a bit of time experimenting with the maps and seeing which I prefer. Further news as I get it...

 

[smk82]

well just sorted out the insuranc cover for the box.. grand total of £49.96 to add it for the rest of the year..

 

[RGS3]

smk82 - good write up, I have one of these waiting to go on my S3....however, I picked up on your insurance comment !!!! Seems to be an issue with mine - maybe its just the S3 but I got quoted almost £400+ more for the tuning box on top. I wont mention who it was, I tried another insurer for a quote and it was about £100 more which seemed reasonable. I known this isnt the thread to do it but would be interested in experiences with which insurance companies are mods friendly, needless to say I was with a mod "friendly" company and they didnt get near my quote this afternoon from a well known insurer.. rant over, thanks

 

[smk82]

Ive heard greenlight are meant to be mod friendly..

 

[smk82]

Thanks for the comment btw. Trying be as informative as possible, as comment like "pulls like a train" are all well and good but you want to know what it drives like normally and other minor things as well...

 

[smk82]

Small update - went out last night to pick up an inebriated fiance ("I'm just going out for a couple of drinks" and comes back rather merry!), which gave me another chance to test out map 1+1. Good news is the smell seems to have gone, which suggests it was the DPF as I thought it might be. I echo some of the points raised in other forums in that below 1800rpm, or if your just pootling along at low speed, you wouldn't know the box was there. Shift to third and over as you accelerate and put your foot down a bit, and there is a distinctly more powerful shove and you definitely seem to get to speed quicker, you just need to be a bit more cautious of how to put the power down in greasy conditions as the car doesn't have the Quattro system. Will shift to Map 2 today and see how that feels.. More later

 

[smk82]

OK. Further update. I've tried map 2+1, 3+1 and 3+2 today. 2+1 had plenty of low down shove, but bot masses, 3 (+1&+2) was more linear with more immediate pace if that makes more sense, +2 more so. I kind of miss the low down shove of 2+1 so will try 2+2 tomorrow/monday and see how that goes. I've also asked Andrew at DTUK for a detailed breakdown of how the 3 maps work and what exactly the +1/-1 etc changes (I'm assuming its boost). Bottom line though, it is definitely more fun to drive it, more immediate and more responsive. No word yet on mpg, although I haven't noticed my average shoot up to silly figures yet time will tell...

 

[smk82]

minor note - when changing programs (or unlocking the box - as it locks after a few seconds with whatever has been selected), the ignition electrics are on however before you start the car turn the electrics back off, wait a few seconds then turn the car on. Otherwise I've noticed it takes a few turns of the engine for the car to start, as opposed to pretty much instantly if the ignition is turned off first.

Oh - and it turns out the smell wasn't the DPF - they were doing gas main updates on a couple of the roads I was driving along and hadn't noticed this in the dark!

 

[madsafe]

Just a quick question, I also have an a3 184ps fwd and a dtuk crdt+. I noticed today on map 1+1 if im in 6th at1500 rpm and put my toe down the car judders until it reaches about 2000rpm, but not on the other maps do you have the same issue?
It would be good to know where the power is on each map and how much +/-actually equates to

 

[smk82]

I dont recall it when i was on map 1+1. Will try tomorrow and post the answers i get from andrew regards the +/- etc.

 

[smk82]

As asked I've tried it on 1+1. I don't feel any judder I'm afraid. Sure it feels sluggish, but thats just till the turbo starts spinning up at ~1800/2000rpm. Haven't noticed any other issue on the other maps yet. Andrew did get back to me regards the +/- and he said that each +1/-1 increases/decreases both boost and fuel. He didn't say by how much each increment was, and also that with this version of the CRDT+ they were no longer supplying graphs of the three maps apparently due to software changes over the last few months...

 

[arad85]

Judder has been claimed elsewhere (google it in this forum) to be the clutch slipping as too much power is pushed through it. If this is the case, I'd be careful.

I have a DTUK Trevor box, but it is no longer fitted as Ms Arad85 (and TBH, so do I) prefers the less aggressive way the standard A3 performs with all the electronic toys we have (we have both hold assist and s-tronic and the car seems to be "happier" and less aggressive in the way it uses these bits at stock). I also found that I appeared to be getting more DPF regens. with the box in - especially on map 3. BTW: I had one of the first Trevors, and found map 1 to be the smoothest - primarily as map 1 was a linear boost whereas map 3 was a more pronounced shoulder kink (I have graphs!!) although clearly, if the maps have changed, then that information will be out of date.

Personally, if I were running the box now, I'd have it on +0 and just choose between the different maps based on how the performance was. The reason is my understanding is that +/- anything adds/subtracts a value onto the mapping curve. Whilst this helps, it - again in my understanding of how the system works - will add more offset when you transition from 0 on the curve - avoiding a step function in extra fuelling/boost which will create a harsher response.

By way of disclaimer, I bought the original CRDT which was replaced by a Trevor unit at no cost (I have no financial interest in the company). I'd also echo the sentiment that Andrew really wants people to be pleased with his products and is very helpful.

 

[smk82]

It would be useful if you could post the graphs? I doubt the maps have changed too far from the original trevor boxes, at the very least it would give an approximation. Maybe because i drive a manual im not feeling the judder?

 

[arad85]

It would be useful if you could post the graphs?

Personally, I don't think that fair on Andrew & DTUK. If he has changed the maps, then they could be way out (and he might even have changed the order of them in the box).

 

[smk82]

That it a fair point but thats why I said it would only be an approximation only. I'm not knocking Andrew (or DTUK) at all, he's been very helpful with what information he has been able to provide and answered all my other questions.

Some of the changes between maps are quite subtle according to Andrew, so would be easier to see differences in a visual manner thats all. From the threads I've read, a lot of the people reporting judder seem to have the S-Tronic rather than the manual boxes..

 

[smk82]

I trialled map 2+1 today to remind myself a bit, before trying 2+2 tomorrow. As before plenty of low down grunt and acceleration however doesn't seem as smooth as map 3. Still will try 2+2 and see how I get on. MPG (DIS) doesn't seem to be changing too much over what I normally see on a commute (although it seemed very low this morning until the engine got to temp), but that might just be due to the -2C temp outside!

 

[madsafe]

Mines also a manual

 

[smk82]

hmm. not sure then. Have you queried with DTUK directly?

 

[madsafe]

No thats my next port of call, does anyone know how much torque these clutches are designed to manage?

 

[smk82]

Ive read through various forums and no one seems to have a definitive answer. The dsg is supposedly rated at 450nm, however as Andrew pointed out to me 1) thats probably quite conservative and 2) your never at max torque for more than a few.minutes at a time. One would assume as there is less to go wrong with it that the manual box can handle more.

 

[arad85]

That it a fair point but thats why I said it would only be an approximation only.

I have a pre-production box, with maps from end of July. No point in looking at them and extrapolating to your box - they may be in a different order and may well be a different shape to what he is shipping now. The only difference between my maps are the turbo boosts, with map 1 being the least aggressive initially, map 3 being slightly more aggressive initially and map 2 being the most aggressive initially. Once they are demanding a lot of extra boost/fuel they are much of a muchness

 

[smk82]

OK that makes more sense. Thanks for the info!. Im trialling 2+2 today, and I agree that it certainly seems quite aggressive once I'm in the turbo rpm band. 3/4 seem far more rapid.

 

[smk82]

2+2 did seem more rapid, however I'm not as keen on the more aggressive way the power arrives when you push the car past ~2200rpm. Sure its fast, but its not as smooth as I would like. I went back to 3+1 for the drive home which was more linear in its power delivery (or so it seemed to me). Now I seem to have decided on a favourite map (map 3), I just need to decide on which adjustment of the map I prefer..

 

[smk82]

Just filled up the car - only managed 393 miles this time! - although I have been doing a bit of spirited driving to see which map I prefer so not too suprised. Fuel calcs (brim to brim) suggest a mpg of 41.2mpg. Will not drive till next fill as a normally use the car, and I'll see what effect it has on the mileage (and how far it puts out the DIS). As I'm planning on getting a VCDS cable, I can then hopefully alter the fuel DIS calcs to make the car accurate again - I say hopefully as I understand that the maximum you can alter is 15% - I have heard that the box puts the reading out by ~9% so should be within tolerances. I'm also due to a service/oil change in a few weeks time, so will also be able to report if anything is picked up by Audi after the box has been removed (I'm not expecting anything!).

 

[Migwire]

If it's just in for an oil change and no warranty work would they even tell you they'd picked up on it though? Might just say nothing until you need something done.

 

[smk82]

Its an inspection service so i would imagine as part of it they would hook up the car to their computers to check various things anyway

 

[smk82]

OK update time. After some thinking I decided to go back to map 1, and I adjusted it to +2 which I ran for the last full tank.
Distance covered = 442miles
Fuel used = 43.14Litres
Mpg = 46.58
Mpg according to DIS = 50.3

I still had 7 litres or so in the tank, so i I could have done just over 500miles.

Thus it overestimated my mpg by ~8%.
This was with normal driving with the odd spurt when I felt like it, not driving like a nun..

Will now try 1+1 to see if there is a difference and I can see if there is a noticeable fueling difference between each setting.

 

[smk82]

Right a bit of an update...

I decided to try all 3 programs before going back to 1+1.

3+1,
Distance covered = 449miles
Fuel used = 44.78Litres
Mpg = 45.58
Mpg according to DIS = 51.5
13% discrepancy

2+1
Distance covered = 465miles
Fuel used = 42.68Litres
Mpg = 49.53
Mpg according to DIS = 49.7
This gives the closest approximation. I think that map 2 uses slightly less fuel as it utilise a higher boost in addition to slightly increased fuelling.

I have now removed the box, as I'm due to get the car serviced in the next few days, so will get a chance to compare it "sans" box and see if I can tell the difference. One thing I noted of interest though, is when I refilled tonight, I only filled 42 litres to the first click, and the car insisted the range remaining was only 30 miles? 8 litres (~1.7 gallons) would be sufficient for another 60-70miles! Is it possible to have Audi adjust the float (or which ever sensor is used), as its being a bit too conservative?

 

[smk82]

OK.. after the irritation of last 2 days at the dealers for service, I have the car back and reinstalled the box this morning. Nothing was mentioned/noted in the dealers notes, so passed ok!. I had removed the whole box however, not just the wiring loom.

Driving to work this morning make me appreciate how much I missed the box, as its so much better, no lag, better response all round. Back on 2+1 for the moment. Only annoyance was that Audi are not allowed to recalibrate the float sensor in the fuel tank as its "within parameters".. don't believe that for a minute - parameters are so wide that you have to refill with 2 gallons remaining in the tank!? Barking...