DSG???

MiniMark

Registered User
As some of you know I'm looking for A3 TDI a few I've seen adverstised have had the DSG gear box what are they like I believe they can be driven like a manual how smooth is the change etc??? And are they any good with a 2.0 TDI?

Oh and did anyone else have problems getting on the forum last night?
 

Iggu

Registered User
As some of you know I'm looking for A3 TDI a few I've seen adverstised have had the DSG gear box what are they like I believe they can be driven like a manual how smooth is the change etc??? And are they any good with a 2.0 TDI?

Oh and did anyone else have problems getting on the forum last night?

They cannot be driven like a manual - you never have full control over gear changes so it will change up for you when it feels like it (even when in "manual" mode).
Not a great option if you're into the thrill of driving the thing - great option if you get stuck in traffic a lot and just want to trundle along.
 

stugolf

Registered User
I tend to disagree, the DGS is very smooth and in D mode changes gears without you realising. In Sport mode the car will rev to the redline cleaning and you can flick the paddle or let the car change gear itself (which is slightly annoying) but it changes gear so much faster than a manual and keeps the speed building. There's nothing more annoying than missing a gear or having a bad gear change when you need it most, thats the beauty of DSG, it always gives a perfect change.
 

MiniMark

Registered User
THanks for your replies I love driving (as I own a classic Mini as me fun car (yeah I know it's not an Audi!!!) but I love driving on the country roads round here.

But as it's going to be my car to get to work and the traffic is heavy on the way home it is very appealing..... Need to see what it like as it seems to good to be true 55 Rey 5 Door S Line Sileve Half Leather Sat Nav Climate, DSG £4,300!!!!
 

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
They cannot be driven like a manual - you never have full control over gear changes so it will change up for you when it feels like it (even when in "manual" mode).
Not a great option if you're into the thrill of driving the thing - great option if you get stuck in traffic a lot and just want to trundle along.

The only thing that a DSG does different when in manual mode to a manual gearbox is automatically change up to the next gear at the red-line. It also changes down automatically if you are in too higher gear for the road speed. It also automatically changes into first gear when you stop.

Other than that, you can drive an A3 with a DSG in manual mode, changing gear using the centre lever or the steering wheel paddles with you, the driver, deciding when to change. I drive in this way all the time and only ever use the fully automatic D mode when crawling in a traffic jam. The changes are quick and very smooth and up changes can be made without releasing the throttle. Some of my passenger have commented that apart from hearing the revs change it almost impossible to tell when I'm changing gear, especially if I'm using the paddles. The main difference is that you do not have to keep pushing-in a clutch pedal. As the 2.0TDI have a relatively short rev band when compared with a petrol engine, the ease of gear changing with a DSG is great. If I want to 'get going' quickly from standstill in manual mode I usually let the engine go to the red-line in first and automatically change up to second, then the same from second the third and then use the paddles after that. I frequently change down for engine braking and before entering a corner so that I am in the right gear for the exit. It seems to work very well.

My first DSG equipped A3 was a 2.0 TDI-140 and my current TDI-170 also has a DSG and personally I would never want to go back to a normal manual gearbox.
 

dunk

Registered User
there are 2 types of dsg control , the older (metal gate flavour) that you have to push the control to the left to use the paddles, and the later leather gate flavour (post 2004 usually) where the paddles are active all the time even in auto mode, but if you dont use the paddles for a few minutes the system moves back in to the current manual mode. - you can still move the gate over to manual mode where is wont change gear unless you hit the lower/higher revs limit

i find the later version much much better - you can pootle along in auto mode in the traffic, but at a flick of the button drop down a gear or 2 in anticipation of an overtaking mode, then just sit back and it will slip back in auto mode.

the changing up/down at the limits isnt a real problem for the manual mode most of the time because on the road you arent usually keeping the car bouncing off the rev limiter, and in a diesel there is less power at the redline than a few hundred revs down anyway!
 

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
They cannot be driven like a manual - you never have full control over gear changes so it will change up for you when it feels like it (even when in "manual" mode).
Not a great option if you're into the thrill of driving the thing - great option if you get stuck in traffic a lot and just want to trundle along.

The main difference between a DSG in 'manual' mode and a normal manual gearbox is that the DSG will change up automatically at the red-line and change down down automatically if you are in too higher gear for the road speed. It will also change into first gear whenever you stop.

Other that that, you can drive a with a DSG in much the same way as a manual but without having to keep using the clutch pedal. I drive my DSG A3 in manual mode using the paddles all the time and only use the fully automatic D mode when crawling in a traffic jam. The changes, both up and down are very quick and smooth and up changes can be made without releasing the throttle at all. Some of my passengers have commented that, apart from hearing a change in engine revs, they cannot tell when I'm changing gear. I frequently change down for engine braking and when approaching a corner so that I am in the right gear for the exit. All this is done just with a quick click of the paddles. To me it's great fun and adds to my driving experience and still brings a smile to my face 4 years after first driving with a DSG.

If I want to 'get going' quickly I let the engine rev to the red-line in first, automatically change up to second, the same from second to third and then change using the paddles after that. As the 2.0TDI engine have a relatively short rev band when compared with a petrol engine it works very well with a DSG.

My first DSG equipped A3 was a 2.0TDI-140 and my current A3 is a TDI-170 and personally I would never want another car without a DSG.
 

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
there are 2 types of dsg control , the older (metal gate flavour) that you have to push the control to the left to use the paddles, and the later leather gate flavour (post 2004 usually) where the paddles are active all the time even in auto mode, but if you dont use the paddles for a few minutes the system moves back in to the current manual mode. - you can still move the gate over to manual mode where is wont change gear unless you hit the lower/higher revs limit

i find the later version much much better - you can pootle along in auto mode in the traffic, but at a flick of the button drop down a gear or 2 in anticipation of an overtaking mode, then just sit back and it will slip back in auto mode.

the changing up/down at the limits isnt a real problem for the manual mode most of the time because on the road you arent usually keeping the car bouncing off the rev limiter, and in a diesel there is less power at the redline than a few hundred revs down anyway!

I have had both versions of the DSG change, the metal gate flavour and the newer leather gate version and they both operated in exactly the same way. Only the material around the centre lever was different. The later version is much better, both in appearance and I think a little smoother in action.

My current leather type started making a slight noise a few weeks ago and my dealers had the car in and greased the actual change mechanism below the lever and it's made it all quiet again even smoother in action that before.
 

Amchlolor

Registered User
I hated DSG with a passion.
The single biggest mistake I've ever made in 24 years of driving.
It can be smooth, yes.
However, it can also be jerky enough to give you whiplash and make passengers go "oocha".
It can also give an infuriating lack of control.
Like when you approach a junction, try to accelerate into a gap, the ECU has a meeting with the gearbox to discuss 'strategies' and you're left sitting there, going nowhere for a split second, before rocketing off like a learner with a slippy shoe.
Go take a long test drive.
I'm not sure hours are enough.
I'm not sure days are enough.

It took me weeks to go from "ooh, this is cool/fun", to "this is F*****G S**T I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I WANT YOU STOLEN I WANT TO SEE YOU BURNED OUT IN A FOREST WHILE I FAKE DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE POLICE AAAAAAAA!":banghead:

If it had been my own car, rather than a company one, I would have gladly taken a huge loss to trade it in for a manual.
 

Gti Jazz Blue

Active Member
VCDS Map User
I
It took me weeks to go from "ooh, this is cool/fun", to "this is F*****G S**T I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I WANT YOU STOLEN I WANT TO SEE YOU BURNED OUT IN A FOREST WHILE I FAKE DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE POLICE AAAAAAAA!":banghead:

I wondered how long it would take. :anbet:

DSG = Marmite you either love or hate it. Just make sure you have a good long drive in varied traffic / road conditions and make your own mind up.

Personally I love it, I can see where it could be improoved though.

Paul
 

Amchlolor

Registered User
I wondered how long it would take. :anbet:

Ach well, it's all balance.
Just as David doesn't get grief for gushing about it, I shouldn't get grief for hating it.
Not that you're giving me grief, just saying.
 

PaulAr

S3 (8P)
Ive never tried DSG however my main reservation is that it would make me lazy.
I can imagine using the paddles for the first few weeks, getting lazy, then sticking it into full manual mode from there on.

Nothing to do with how good or bad the technology may be, more down to my own habits.

Strangely when I was looking for a MK5 Golf a couple of years back, DSG was highly desriable and commanded premiums on used cars. Im assuming VW/AUDI systems are the same?

I used a 4x4 Derv Auto for 4 weeks on hire last year, and can see why people prefer Autos, personally I missed the 3rd pedal !

Paul
 

Iggu

Registered User
Ive never tried DSG however my main reservation is that it would make me lazy.
I can imagine using the paddles for the first few weeks, getting lazy, then sticking it into full manual mode from there on.

Exactly my experience - although after the first few weeks I stuck it in Auto mode (rather than Manual) for 3 years and left it at that. Couldn't be ***** with it.
 

Amchlolor

Registered User
Ive never tried DSG however my main reservation is that it would make me lazy.
I can imagine using the paddles for the first few weeks, getting lazy, then sticking it into full manual mode from there on.

I assume you mean "stick it into full auto mode"?
If so, that's definitely what happened with me.
I just ended up shoving it into 'D' 99% of the time.
I felt manual mode was such a grudging nod towards a proper manual mode that it became pointless using it.
I also felt a bit sad, using the paddles, to be honest.
Like some twit, making F1 noises and giving oneself a Murray Walker commentary around the local bypass.:racer:

Sorry, but I definitely view DSG/S-tronic as a gimmicky toy, rather than a useful tool.
 

PaulAr

S3 (8P)

MiniMark

Registered User
TO be honest I've never seen the point of autos (no offence to thoose who have them) especially in sports cars etc (never understood them fitting a auto box to the classic mini) I've driven one years ago beofre I passed my test on a privite road it was a Jag XJR (lovely car) I went to dip the clutch and got the brake dad nearly wne t through the windscreen!!!

But I'd consider a DSG box if the cars right sometimes you have to accept slightly less then you really want as I'd love a 3.0 TDI Quattro S Line with all the toys but unless I win the Lotto I have no chance!!
 

NHN

Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat
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Here we go another DSG love/hate thread that wouldnt be the same without Bowfer, lol

horses for courses, but I've been manual throughout & my man reason for getting dsg was cause fedup with the damn stop/start with traffic, personally if you're buying it for speedway driving around lanes(which shouldnt do anyway) then guess not for you, but if its for the daily work, commuting etc then its perfect no matter what we all say you cant knock it for plain convenience, you're not gonna full asleep, you can knock it down a gear for little extra grunt although without a map its not hugely exciting, but it does the job, but with a map I have to say its fun to drive for me & still good mpg, love the fact I hardly ever fill up more than once in 1-2 weeks now, where as before in the S4 V8 was £20 easily to brighton & back.

Where as the 3.0TDI quattro is lovely & 230ish bhp from get with room for near 300 well couldnt go wrong really & with fair mpg, speaks for itself, by all reports I've heard its a lovely engine & the B7 avant would be perfect, prices have dropped alot aswell.

Go have a test drive make up your own mind cause we arent you so no matter what we say until you've experienced for yourself then cant really base it on what we say, remember though a map would add 20-45 horses to it & it does make a difference trust me, I've had the s3, s4 & vr6's etc etc as many have & this car has been tbh one of the best buys I've made & after the map its even better, not F1 car but does the job
 

MiniMark

Registered User
What have I started now.... only joking it's good to get everyones opinions

As it will be mainly used for work the DSG really does appeal. When I started looking at everyday cars I was thinking estate cars like the mondao etc but now prices are falling I think a A3 is a much better choice. Not driven one before but Mom has had a couple of evants and I drove her S4 (yeah I know a bit different to a 2.0 TDI but still) and that was lovely she got rid of that now and is on her second RS4 now that is a truley Awesome car! Funnily enough she won't let me have the keys not sure why.....
 

Amchlolor

Registered User
What have I started now.... only joking it's good to get everyones opinions

As it will be mainly used for work the DSG really does appeal. When I started looking at everyday cars I was thinking estate cars like the mondao etc but now prices are falling I think a A3 is a much better choice. Not driven one before but Mom has had a couple of avants and I drove her S4 (yeah I know a bit different to a 2.0 TDI but still) and that was lovely she got rid of that now and is on her second RS4 now that is a truley Awesome car! Funnily enough she won't let me have the keys not sure why.....

No offence, but you shouldn't assume you'll like an A3, based on driving various A4's.
They are completely different beasts.
I assumed my A3 would be as well built as my A4 before it, but they simply aren't (IMO, of course).
I'd have another A4, I wouldn't touch another A3 with a 40' pole.
 

RS84

R15 - TDI Power
Your Mam has an RS4?

Legend!
 

MiniMark

Registered User
Yep she's had the new one a year it has to be the best car she has ever had and that includes a couple of jags!!

I've asked if I can take it round a track to which she has said no chance!:sadlike:
 

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
Whenever the subject of the DSG/S-tronic comes up on this forum you will always get the two camps of those who love it, like me and those who hate it, like bowfer.

I agree with bowfer that you do need to experience one for some times to know for sure if you like it or not.

I drove an A4 with a multi-tronic gearbox for about a day and liked it before the DSG was available. When my dealer got an A3 with a DSG I borrowed it from Friday lunch-time, over the week-end, until Monday lunch-time. I drove it nearly 800 miles in that time and by the end I was convinced it was for me. I have never once thought otherwise.

Now borrowing a DSG A3 for that amount of time may well not be possible unless you know a dealer very well but another way that you could experience how a DSG A3 behaves it to sit next to someone in their car whilst they are driving. This has the advantage of it not all be new and different and you can watch the driver and see what they are doing and feel how the car reacts almost as well as actually driving it.

I'm sure there are members of this forum who would be only to happy to facilitate this. I know I would so if you or anyone else wants to take a ride to just of the A1 in Cambridgeshire, let me know.
 

dollface

Registered User
love the dsg box , its smooth fast and really good . think about it most supercars now have auto /dsg Bugatti Veyron is (dsg), merc slr, rs6 2008, lamborghini .

i wouldnt really go back to manual or less it was a audi rs4 then i would have manual well only cos they dont make rs4 with dsg lol

but rs4 is one of my all time fav cars and the rs6 yummmmie
 

Igdos

Registered User
Thought I'd put in my pennysworth.... definitely recommend DSG - best of both worlds, as guys have said for commute can stick it into D and forget about it. I would agree that it does take a bit of getting used to using paddles, in some ways although gear change almost unnoticeable, still need to adjust to how the car reacts to what you want it to do - otherwise there will be the slight delay and slingshot effect. From what I've experienced as long as the accelerator isn't buried suddenly past kickdown then it's not an issue. For dropping gears to power out of corners and for 'tight' overtaking it's ideal.

Oh and on the A4 quality being better than A3 - it's marginal but coming from B6 A4 to 8P A3 can see some cost-cutting on the plastics, but it's in all the non-visible places - underside of dash, underside of boot mat, filler cap? and engine. Not a lot in it though IMO.

Good luck with the car search!
 
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