DSG: What does everyone think

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
Agreed on the first gear selection and I have no doubts its a fantastic bit of kit.

Something I never got over was what to do with my left arm / foot. I found myself tapping to music etc just to give it something to do ( didn't have the arm rest in the A3 so could not perfect the 'gangsta lean' while cruising ).

I may be tempted to try again down the line and maybe its just I wasnt used to it :)

You could try keeping both hands on the steering wheel!! Greater car control and fingers just in the right place to change up or down when required.
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
Lol bit then I will be driving like my mum and my street cred' will be gone 'innit'
 

h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
Lol bit then I will be driving like my mum and my street cred' will be gone 'innit'

Is 'street cred' more important than safety. If so I've got no 'street cred' but 45 years of safe accident free driving after having been taught to drive with both hands on the wheel at all times by a police advanced driving instructor.

Perhaps that explains why so many young drivers seem to have so many accidents.
 

Peachy

Registered User
I love DSG, I've driven a Mk5 R32 and it was the only thing I enjoyed about the car :ninja:

If I could change my manual to DSG I would do it in a heartbeat, so much more enjoyable to drive imo.
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
I'm 31, Bold & slightly podgy!

I have no street cred really lol

I've had a couple of crashes in my time but due to me driving to fast for the conditions , not because I had only one hand on the wheel :)
 

paddy

Registered User
DSG in an S3 is just a totally different experience to DSG in a 3.2 so my guess is its different again in a derv and so on.
Anyway sock...are you really Bold or Bald ? Bold is a washing powder.:) do you froth up when it rains....could be a clue
 
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quattro81

All the gear.. No idea
I have to have an auto now due to a bike accident, and I was dreading it due to always having manuels... But tbh I prefer it now.. So convenient, and fast at gear changing.. Had a little traffic light gp with an astra vxr the other week, and on paper it's a little quicker than mine, but thanks to dsg rapid gear changes (and possibly his not being so good!) I was the victor!! Lol
 

Hellz

Geordie Racer
I have to have an auto now due to a bike accident, and I was dreading it due to always having manuels... But tbh I prefer it now.. So convenient, and fast at gear changing.. Had a little traffic light gp with an astra vxr the other week, and on paper it's a little quicker than mine, but thanks to dsg rapid gear changes (and possibly his not being so good!) I was the victor!! Lol

I remember seeing a review of the Golf R recently where the presenter was testing the claimed 0-62 in both the DSG version and the manual version. IIRC the manufacturer claimed time of the manual was 5.6 and the DSG 5.4 or something. The presenter, a self professed average driver, as I guess most of us are (regardless of what we'd like to believe!) only managed something like 6.2 / 6.4 to 62 with the manual and each time his 0-62 varied but in the DSG managed 5.6/5.7 or something on a regular basis (likely with launch control).
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
Well thats interesting,

At no time ever while I had the A3 with the DSG box did it change gear as quickly as that? as I have said mine always hung at the top of the revs for a bit before changing?
 

paddy

Registered User
Agree Sock but after i had the 3.2 remaped it changed bang on the red line. and that was an engine remap not a box remap.
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
Ah thats ok then, was beginning to think I really did have a naff one lol

I found myself using the paddles when booting it in a straight line, managed to time it right so it changed that split second quicker than waiting for it to do it itself

How hard was that guy on the gears in the manual though? supprised he didnt pull the gear leaver out lol
 

quattro81

All the gear.. No idea
I remember seeing a review of the Golf R recently where the presenter was testing the claimed 0-62 in both the DSG version and the manual version. IIRC the manufacturer claimed time of the manual was 5.6 and the DSG 5.4 or something. The presenter, a self professed average driver, as I guess most of us are (regardless of what we'd like to believe!) only managed something like 6.2 / 6.4 to 62 with the manual and each time his 0-62 varied but in the DSG managed 5.6/5.7 or something on a regular basis (likely with launch control).
0-62 times on manual cars are achieved by professional testers, you can do the same times in the auto regardless of how hamfisted/footed you are... Launch control, as clarkson pointed out this week, is a bit stupid.. Because you have to sit there revving the tw*t of it waiting for the lights to change... Can't be good for the box/clutches .....?
 
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h5djr

Registered User
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Gold Supporter
Did it make any difference whether you were in Drive or Sport? Mine holds the revs and changes quite a bit higher if I ever try it in Sport.
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
What are the differences in acceleration times when moving between the 2 ie say from 30 to 60 or what ever?

Is the DSG always meant to be faster or is that just in a straight line?
 

quattro81

All the gear.. No idea
Did it make any difference whether you were in Drive or Sport? Mine holds the revs and changes quite a bit higher if I ever try it in Sport.

Yes.. The same for me.. At the start of the redline changes in D, and at the limiter in S (on full throttle).. In D it will change earlier based much more on throttle position, and this makes for a smoother drive. Whereas in S it holds much higher revs even if you try and feather the throttle..
 

paddy

Registered User
I think the real point of that video is how consistent the DSG is. You could put your gran in that and she would get 5.7 as well where as the Manual relies on you getting it right and chances are you will not when you need to.
As for this "taking the driving experience away"...thing...So do auto lights and wipers and electric windows etc. Fact is that just like manual fuel pumps, manual advance /****** and rubber hooters the manual box is on the way out.

Now will someone please buy these ****** coil packs please :)
I
I
v
 
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quattro81

All the gear.. No idea
What are the differences in acceleration times when moving between the 2 ie say from 30 to 60 or what ever?

Is the DSG always meant to be faster or is that just in a straight line?
If you are already in the correct gear, I would imagine it's the same.. But if you are at a speed where you need to change down to leather it, once again the dsg wins I reckon.. However, I don't like the way it kicks down when you are hard on the throttle in corners sometimes though, can unbalance the car quite a bit..
 

quattro81

All the gear.. No idea
I agree with pad.. Full manual is fast becoming antiquated tech compared to the new dual clutch systems... They're nothing like the old grandad auto boxes...
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
Fact is that just like manual fuel pumps, manual advance /****** and rubber hooters the manual box is on the way out.

Aww Paddy please don't say that, we have established my inability to drive an automatic so if manual goes what will I have left :(
 

spaceman86

Registered User
DSG involves hardly any driving skill as the video shows. It's like Gran Turismo but on a real road. All depends what you want from a car. Manuel all the way for me on a hatchback (more feel, control) but DSG on a larger car Q5/7 :)
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
DSG involves hardly any driving skill as the video shows. It's like Gran Turismo but on a real road. All depends what you want from a car. Manuel all the way for me on a hatchback (more feel, control) but DSG on a larger car Q5/7 :)

I must admit I just don't get this 'more feel and control' bit with a manual gearbox. Yes you can slip the clutch but that is surely just bad driving. I have owned 22 different cars over my 45 years of driving and all but the last 3 have had a manual gearbox. To me the way I drive my DSG using tiptronic mode gives me just as much control over my car as any of my previous manuals. Better in fact as I know ever gear change is going to be just perfect whether it's changing up in a split second when accelerating or changing down a gear (I always use the paddles and never kick-down) to pass another car as quickly as possible or even changing down when approaching a bend or roundabout. It's just a much more modern solution and takes away the need to keep playing with the clutch pedal. To me it adds considerably to my driving please rather that takes anything away. Even after three cars and some 100k miles changing gear using the DSG still brings a smile to my face as it works so quickly and smoothly.

I agree with Paddy - one day all gearboxes with be like the DSG unless of course were all forced to drive around in electric cars!! We are generally quite happy to accept technology that helps us with things like power steering, boosted braking, auto lights, auto wipers, cruise control, automatic air conditioning, hill-hold etc etc why no accept some technology to help us with gear-changing. To me the size of the car makes no difference. I often drive my A3 Sportback quickly through country lanes just for enjoyment and the ability to select the correct gear so easily only enhances the experience. Also if I get stuck in a traffic queue like the 8 mile queue a few weeks ago just to cross the Dartford Crossing then I can select auto and let the car look after itself rather than having to put the clutch pedal up and down every few seconds. The DSG is in my opinion the best of both worlds.
 

Ads

ASN Veteran
I must admit I just don't get this 'more feel and control' bit with a manual gearbox. Yes you can slip the clutch but that is surely just bad driving. I have owned 22 different cars over my 45 years of driving and all but the last 3 have had a manual gearbox. To me the way I drive my DSG using tiptronic mode gives me just as much control over my car as any of my previous manuals. Better in fact as I know ever gear change is going to be just perfect whether it's changing up in a split second when accelerating or changing down a gear (I always use the paddles and never kick-down) to pass another car as quickly as possible or even changing down when approaching a bend or roundabout. It's just a much more modern solution and takes away the need to keep playing with the clutch pedal. To me it adds considerably to my driving please rather that takes anything away. Even after three cars and some 100k miles changing gear using the DSG still brings a smile to my face as it works so quickly and smoothly.

I agree with Paddy - one day all gearboxes with be like the DSG unless of course were all forced to drive around in electric cars!! We are generally quite happy to accept technology that helps us with things like power steering, boosted braking, auto lights, auto wipers, cruise control, automatic air conditioning, hill-hold etc etc why no accept some technology to help us with gear-changing. To me the size of the car makes no difference. I often drive my A3 Sportback quickly through country lanes just for enjoyment and the ability to select the correct gear so easily only enhances the experience. Also if I get stuck in a traffic queue like the 8 mile queue a few weeks ago just to cross the Dartford Crossing then I can select auto and let the car look after itself rather than having to put the clutch pedal up and down every few seconds. The DSG is in my opinion the best of both worlds.

What he said. But in capital letters.
 

Agent_Trig

Registered User
I must admit I just don't get this 'more feel and control' bit with a manual gearbox. Yes you can slip the clutch but that is surely just bad driving. I have owned 22 different cars over my 45 years of driving and all but the last 3 have had a manual gearbox. To me the way I drive my DSG using tiptronic mode gives me just as much control over my car as any of my previous manuals. Better in fact as I know ever gear change is going to be just perfect whether it's changing up in a split second when accelerating or changing down a gear (I always use the paddles and never kick-down) to pass another car as quickly as possible or even changing down when approaching a bend or roundabout. It's just a much more modern solution and takes away the need to keep playing with the clutch pedal. To me it adds considerably to my driving please rather that takes anything away. Even after three cars and some 100k miles changing gear using the DSG still brings a smile to my face as it works so quickly and smoothly.

I agree with Paddy - one day all gearboxes with be like the DSG unless of course were all forced to drive around in electric cars!! We are generally quite happy to accept technology that helps us with things like power steering, boosted braking, auto lights, auto wipers, cruise control, automatic air conditioning, hill-hold etc etc why no accept some technology to help us with gear-changing. To me the size of the car makes no difference. I often drive my A3 Sportback quickly through country lanes just for enjoyment and the ability to select the correct gear so easily only enhances the experience. Also if I get stuck in a traffic queue like the 8 mile queue a few weeks ago just to cross the Dartford Crossing then I can select auto and let the car look after itself rather than having to put the clutch pedal up and down every few seconds. The DSG is in my opinion the best of both worlds.

Bang on the money! :)

This should be sticked haha
 

Jules86

At work most likely
Im not a fan of the facelift A3 but seriously considered a facelift S3 just for DSG! I miss it very much.

Its better in more powerful cars as it doesn't need to keep changing like people are saying who have less power. It was sublime in my R32!
 

paddy

Registered User
DSG involves hardly any driving skill as the video shows. It's like Gran Turismo but on a real road. All depends what you want from a car. Manuel all the way for me on a hatchback (more feel, control) but DSG on a larger car Q5/7 :)

More skill ???? yea sure we see Jenson Button and Lewis stirring the cogs every week dont we ...lol you are 20 years in the past. What are you saying ? you need less skill to drive a bigger car like a Q5/7 ? Did you see the muppet in the video displaying any skill as he wrenched the stick out of the floor with each gear change ? as for Feel and control well I and I suspect H5djr can remember non power steering and non servo brakes and people said the same then when power steering and servo'd brakes arrived. come to think of it the same was said when Radial tyres arrived as well :)
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
I've decided to get rid of the gear box completely and adopt the flintstone style of moving, it's my only hope lol

Although I do now have the desire to experience a mapped DSG S3 lol :)
 

h5djr

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More skill ???? yea sure we see Jenson Button and Lewis stirring the cogs every week dont we ...lol you are 20 years in the past. What are you saying ? you need less skill to drive a bigger car like a Q5/7 ? Did you see the muppet in the video displaying any skill as he wrenched the stick out of the floor with each gear change ? as for Feel and control well I and I suspect H5djr can remember non power steering and non servo brakes and people said the same then when power steering and servo'd brakes arrived. come to think of it the same was said when Radial tyres arrived as well :)

I don't think my first 'car' had power anything. It was a second-hand original Minivan. Long waggly gear stick, sliding windows, starter button on the floor and not very much get up and go from the 850cc engine, but at the time I thought it was great. At least it kept me drier than my 50cc Honda Scooter.
 

LWNY

Registered User
How come nobody is complaining about ABS and EBD? Doesn't everybody want to go back to the days of rears locking very early on due to weight shift of car, and general brake locking? Heck, give me 4 brake pedals so that I can modulate all 4 individually.

What about quattro with its automatic torque transfer (along with higher end cars with torque vectoring differential). There, you need 4 gas pedals again, so you can put power where you want it.
 

Sock

Shark in a Goldfishes clothing
Lol I need a car that has to be driven by a spider!

I'll call it the Sock Arachnid GTI :)
 

148KPT

Registered User
I think a factor in DSG vs Manual is your type of driving. My A3 is the first 'automatic' I have owned and I have been very impressed with the DSG setup, very quick and smooth change. I often do a 6 mile stop/start commute and it is great for this. On longer drives on A roads and motorways I see little benefit other than having both hands on the steering wheel most of the time :racer:
 

spaceman86

Registered User
So what's the downside of a DSG setup? Of course a automatic setup will be better than a conventional manual setup at choosing gears. Correct me if I'm wrong don't dsg systems have a problem of electronic modules going wrong?

I would have gone for a DSG setup but the cost of repairing a gearbox and clutch changes put me off. I'm an accountant by trade so mind how prudent I am :)

I must admit I just don't get this 'more feel and control' bit with a manual gearbox. Yes you can slip the clutch but that is surely just bad driving. I have owned 22 different cars over my 45 years of driving and all but the last 3 have had a manual gearbox. To me the way I drive my DSG using tiptronic mode gives me just as much control over my car as any of my previous manuals. Better in fact as I know ever gear change is going to be just perfect whether it's changing up in a split second when accelerating or changing down a gear (I always use the paddles and never kick-down) to pass another car as quickly as possible or even changing down when approaching a bend or roundabout. It's just a much more modern solution and takes away the need to keep playing with the clutch pedal. To me it adds considerably to my driving please rather that takes anything away. Even after three cars and some 100k miles changing gear using the DSG still brings a smile to my face as it works so quickly and smoothly.

I agree with Paddy - one day all gearboxes with be like the DSG unless of course were all forced to drive around in electric cars!! We are generally quite happy to accept technology that helps us with things like power steering, boosted braking, auto lights, auto wipers, cruise control, automatic air conditioning, hill-hold etc etc why no accept some technology to help us with gear-changing. To me the size of the car makes no difference. I often drive my A3 Sportback quickly through country lanes just for enjoyment and the ability to select the correct gear so easily only enhances the experience. Also if I get stuck in a traffic queue like the 8 mile queue a few weeks ago just to cross the Dartford Crossing then I can select auto and let the car look after itself rather than having to put the clutch pedal up and down every few seconds. The DSG is in my opinion the best of both worlds.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
As has already been said by many members I don't thing the DSG is any less reliable than a manual gearbox. Yes there is a central 'mechatronic' unit that controls everything but as far as I know this has proved to be very reliable. I've has three A3 with DSG and I never had any problems. Two of my first A3s had syncomesh problems with their manual gearboxes. The clutches on a manual gearbox need to be changed more often than those in a DSG, which certainly on the 6-speed version Audi say will last the life of the car. There are all sorts of mechanical 'bits' involved in operating the clutch and manually shifting the gears, which can all go wrong. Generally electronic parts are more reliable than any mechanical parts and are generally very easy to change if they do go wrong. The 'mechatronic' unit can be changed without removing the gearbox. The inside of the DSG is much the same as the inside of a manual gearbox and with a DSG it will not allow the driver to abuse it or get things wrong as it is possible to do with a manual box.

So personally I have no worry at all about the reliability of the DSG. It is a well designed and engineered piece of kit that has already been fitted to so many cars. You worry un-necessarily.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
So what's the downside of a DSG setup? Of course a automatic setup will be better than a conventional manual setup at choosing gears. Correct me if I'm wrong don't dsg systems have a problem of electronic modules going wrong?

I would have gone for a DSG setup but the cost of repairing a gearbox and clutch changes put me off. I'm an accountant by trade so mind how prudent I am :)

So going on from my previous post I personally don't think there is a down side of the DSG setup apart perhaps from the extra £1400 to add it to a new car. But even that, as far as I'm concerned is the best £1400 I've spent in a along time and I've now done it three times and will probably do it again when the new A3 comes out later this year or early next year.
 

eddyd

Registered User
A clutch and flywheel change from Audi will cost in excess of £1000 and is much more likely to happen than DSG problems imo.
Never hear of anyone changing the actual clutch in the DSG either, I would assume they would easily last the life of the car i.e 200K miles or more.

I would agree though that it would be a waste in a 1.6 or something which is only worth £5K after 5 years and then you get a bill for over £2K!
 

The Cardinal

For the love of cars
Like many people I suspect, my previous experience and opinions of auto gearboxes was influenced by the older 4-speed systems that came on a different pre-DSG generation of cars. My parents have always enjoyed autos and although I appreciated their smoothness, I would never have considered a conventional auto for a performance car.

I was converted to the S-Tronic / DSG sytem when I test drove my S3. It's a massively flexible and helpful bit of kit - it's super smooth around town and at low revs, but it also gives you 100% confidence in quick gear changes and the opportunity to drive as if it were a manual.

The best bit about flappy paddles (tiptronic?) is that you can manually downshift and use engine braking if you want to. I always felt that this kind of thing was the preserve of a manual gearbox, but it isn't any more. I love to hear my turbo spooling up and its wastegate chatter, which I can get by simply holding a taller gear with a flappy paddle shift - but as soon as I'm done, the auto feature senses it and just takes over. Perfect.

I've yet to master using launch control and, as everyone says, you look like a dork using it if it's not appropriate. It still doesn't quite feel as "instant" as a full bore manual launch - even if the figures say otherwise!
 
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