Dreaded Oil pump failure, Advice needed.

Scotsman86

Registered User
Hi gang I have read many threads on this but can't find a direct answer. I drive a 2008 A4 2.0 TDI covered 143k had the oil pump failure last monday. The garage that are going to fix it have told me they will also need to replace Cam belt and water pump as they will need to remove these to access the pump(these were replace 3k miles ago) I believe he is just trying to rinse me of a few more hundred pounds as I would have thought you would loosen the sub frame and take the oil pump out of the sump? Any advice would be great before I confront the garage with the wrong information .
 

jakm15

Registered User
Hi gang I have read many threads on this but can't find a direct answer. I drive a 2008 A4 2.0 TDI covered 143k had the oil pump failure last monday. The garage that are going to fix it have told me they will also need to replace Cam belt and water pump as they will need to remove these to access the pump(these were replace 3k miles ago) I believe he is just trying to rinse me of a few more hundred pounds as I would have thought you would loosen the sub frame and take the oil pump out of the sump? Any advice would be great before I confront the garage with the wrong information .
That's the first case I've ever heard of a b8 with oil pump failure but I suppose it's a 2008 and was one of the very first. What's your engine code?

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Honestly couldn't tell you the code (CAG) potentially? Basically dash shown turn engine off and check oil light with red oil can on dash. AA recovered me and garage said sounds like oil pump has failed...very common on Audi I will price it up and said he will probably need to replace timing belt as it's good practice when removing it. Just seems odd since my cam belt and water pump are basically brand new but I'm not a mechanic plus it's been over almost a week and still no price. I'm covered by AA Parts and labour aswell so I'm thinking the guy is potentially trying to RIP me off as he said the £535 from AA will cover pump replacement as it's an 8hr job but I'll need to pay for new cam belt and pump.
 

jakm15

Registered User
It's very common on the B7s but I've never heard of an oil pump failure on a b8.

The only way to determine if it is the pump would be removing it and inspecting it as you wouldn't want to run the engine as it would be a write off in a matter of seconds of the pump had failed fully.

I'd try and determine if the oil pressure sender/switch is functioning first.

In regards to the cambelt, if the water pump, tensioner and belt has only just been changed I definitely wouldn't be changing it again.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
It's very common on the B7s but I've never heard of an oil pump failure on a b8.

The only way to determine if it is the pump would be removing it and inspecting it as you wouldn't want to run the engine as it would be a write off in a matter of seconds of the pump had failed fully.

I'd try and determine if the oil pressure sender/switch is functioning first.

In regards to the cambelt, if the water pump, tensioner and belt has only just been changed I definitely wouldn't be changing it again.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
Now that you said that he told me over the phone there's a loud ticking/rattle noise every few seconds when the engine is on and was it there before....fingers crossed he hasn't ruined the engine.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
download.jpeg
 

jakm15

Registered User
Now that you said that he told me over the phone there's a loud ticking/rattle noise every few seconds when the engine is on and was it there before....fingers crossed he hasn't ruined the engine.
If the oil pumps failed and he has run the engine and it's no oil pressure the engine will be goosed now as it will have been essentially running dry.

When the low pressure light popped up if you shut off the engine immediately you'll have probably got away with no damage but not if it's been sat ticking over in the garage since.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Quick update, on initial inspection and sound( rattling at right side of engine when accelerating) sounds like the balance shaft has failed. He is going to trying getting it out without disturbing cam belt as it will be looking between 700 - 900 to replace it all including belt kit. Seems steep to me but AA cover up to 500 surely they will know if it's very overpriced?
 

jakm15

Registered User
Quick update, on initial inspection and sound( rattling at right side of engine when accelerating) sounds like the balance shaft has failed. He is going to trying getting it out without disturbing cam belt as it will be looking between 700 - 900 to replace it all including belt kit. Seems steep to me but AA cover up to 500 surely they will know if it's very overpriced?
Price is not a million miles away, it's not the cheapest but it's not mega over priced either.

Standard cambelt change on average is around £400 - £500 and then you've got the parts and labour for the balance shaft on top of that.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Price is not a million miles away, it's not the cheapest but it's not mega over priced either.

Standard cambelt change on average is around £400 - £500 and then you've got the parts and labour for the balance shaft on top of that.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
Cheers obviously the stereotypical Scottish tightness coming out
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Quick update, on initial inspection and sound( rattling at right side of engine when accelerating) sounds like the balance shaft has failed. He is going to trying getting it out without disturbing cam belt as it will be looking between 700 - 900 to replace it all including belt kit. Seems steep to me but AA cover up to 500 surely they will know if it's very overpriced?

If the low oil pressure light was showi g on the dash why did they run the engine never mind rev it up?
Does your garage of choice have experience of oil pump failure?
I had my balance shaft, hex key and oil pump changed about 6 weeks ago on my BRE engined B7 at 150k. I had wear in my hex key and most probably my balance shaft. But I don't recall them having to take the cambelt off in the process. The front subframe does have to be lowered to remove the sump though.
Make sure you get hold of a remanufactured balance shaft and longer hex key from KMB, not an OE one bought outright.
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
If the low oil pressure light was showi g on the dash why did they run the engine never mind rev it up?
Does your garage of choice have experience of oil pump failure?
I had my balance shaft, hex key and oil pump changed about 6 weeks ago on my BRE engined B7 at 150k. I had wear in my hex key and most probably my balance shaft. But I don't recall them having to take the cambelt off in the process. The front subframe does have to be lowered to remove the sump though.
Make sure you get hold of a remanufactured balance shaft and longer hex key from KMB, not an OE one bought outright.
Yeah he spoke to me today said there was small metal shards in the sump but he is struggling to get steering rack bolts or something on the sub frame off and is hoping he doesn't need to drill them out to make room to get the sump out. Said he contacted Audi for the balance shaft but they wanted £1200 for the full unit, I said I can get the parts online myself if it's a drama but told he will update me on Monday as he needs an extra hand to lift the engine or something before he sends his findings to the AA.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
The only reservation with KMB at the particular time is I'm not sure if they've shut up shop for a while.
I'm waiting to return my old balance shaft to them, but had no reply the my email and phone calls.
The deposit is quite pricey, but still far cheaper than buying the complete unit from Audi. KMB supply the balance shaft with hardened insert and a longer harder hex shaft.
It really is a no brainer as Gazwould bangs on about. Yours is the first B8 CA.. engined balance shaft that I've heard about packing up. Just goes to show no-one is safe. It's all a gamble not doing it.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
I've heard a few on here and they'll be more to come if the prevention isn't done .

Yep they carried a 2004 design flaw right into the early B8 probably to use up all the inferior 77mm modules they had left .

The actual point they received 100mm I'm unsure of whether it's a year or up to B8.5 .

With the VW Passat 2.0tdi it was B6 2005 - 2010 in the later years when they went to CR they used a mixture of 77 and 100mm to the point of if you asked the main dealer to which one you had they usually couldn't tell you , it was drop the sump and withdraw the key job .

All shenanigans happens out of warranty and wasn't a recall except for South Korea !
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Got update today it is definitely the hex key part of the balance shaft rounding off he is trying to source a new upgraded shaft and hex key from his supplier but said I'm looking around £1000...jaw is still on the floor, did offer a botched alternative but said I could potentially drive a few miles and end up with same problem.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Give KMB a call. They've been operating the whole time the lockdown has been going on. I've just returned my shaft to them and got my deposit back.
Way, way, way cheaper than £1k, and all upgraded too.

https://www.kmbpartsdirect.co.uk/shop/contactus.html
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Hi guys sorry to bring this back up but apparently the balance shaft has been replaced and the engine still has a rattle the mechanic thinks it could be a cracked crankshaft number 4 I'm going to speak to him on the phone later to decide if he can investigate further. (Remove the engine) As it's taken him 3 months to replace the balance shaft my Question is: Is this likely to happen or does it sound like he hasn't fixed anything and is trying to drag it out for higher charges maybe? Over the few months he is always changing his story or can't get the parts and now this, seems suspicious to me but I don't know how easy it is for a crankshaft to break.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Sounds suspicious, and he doesn't sound very reputable. Was he the best mechanic you could find?
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Sounds suspicious, and he doesn't sound very reputable. Was he the best mechanic you could find?
Was the only garage open at the time, I have tried to be as reasonable as I could during the whole lockdown thing but 3 months is taking the P, I'm going back down on Monday anyway but always good to kind of have an idea in case he is just talking rubbish to me.
 

jakm15

Registered User
Was the only garage open at the time, I have tried to be as reasonable as I could during the whole lockdown thing but 3 months is taking the P, I'm going back down on Monday anyway but always good to kind of have an idea in case he is just talking rubbish to me.
Personally if it was me I'd bite the bullet and take it elsewhere. I'd only take my car somewhere recommended by someone or after doing some online research.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Personally if it was me I'd bite the bullet and take it elsewhere. I'd only take my car somewhere recommended by someone or after doing some online research.

Sent from my moto e5 plus using Tapatalk
He basically told me there's a rattle he can't find and the crankshaft is a little worn, number 4 is pulling slightly but to fault find it properly it could end up costing more than car is worth, agreed he can drive my car over a few days to make sure it's not gonna break on me as soon as I try drive it 200 miles home.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
I'm really sorry about your experience , the mechanic sounds really dodgy .

My father did his on the driveway in 2011 , took him about 3.5hrs combined .

Choose the next one wisely .
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
3 months is totally having a larf. If he's ever done one before it should take him half s day, even with snags.
How on earth has he diagnosed that journal no.4 is worn? When he had the sump off there was no issue with the crank was there? And to diagnose it as no. 4, he is good.
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Not charged me anything yet but months ago he said between 800 - 1000 for replacement of oil pump/ balance shaft, as for the crankshaft he said he started the car to make sure pump was working before he puts it together and there's a load rattle coming from somewhere....the crankshaft is a little charred and number 4 looks to be pulling slightly but nothing bad for a car that age but to actually get into it he said he will need to take engine out to look which will cost a lot more. I personally think he is trying to rinse me but do I take the chance and engine pops a few miles down the road. I am going to his garage on Monday so will put an update on then see how much I get ripped off.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Did you have a rattle before he took things apart in the first place?
He had to put a fair bit back together to be able to run the car up to check the pump. I take it he changed the oil pump along with the balance shaft and hex key?
To see the crank is charred with the con rod and end cap in place it must be bad. Also that means he dropped the oil again, took the sump off and cleaned the crank shaft up.
He might be telling you the truth, but it all sounds a bit dodgy to me.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Just read the thread back. Is he still saying you need a new timing belt and water pump?
From memory these were removed on mine, just enough needs to be removed to get the sump off. Subframe does need to be lowered.
I would say that he's just trying to pull your pants down. Apparently it's the turbo that would go due to oil starvation, but I don't think the crank suffers.
I still can't see why is was running it up and revving it with the low pressure warning light on in the first place. Any further engine damage could be down to him. He seems to have you over a barrel though.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I meant to say I don't think the timing belt was removed on mine, or the water pump. Especially if yours were changed 3k miles ago.
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Nah there was no rattle before that I was aware of, Yeah I think he got new balance shaft and 100mm hex key and got a guy to tap the pump and screw an insert in but now this after 3 months of trying to be understanding because of the lockdown. I personally think if it is gubbed he must have drove the car into his garage when I got it dropped off or something but as it's a 2008 could just be wear and tear. Hopefully get most questions cleared up on Monday.

And nope he said he wont replace the water pump or belt.
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
So update is still not fixed and now he can't seem to figure out where the rattling is coming from as the camshaft looks ok, said he has seen some in much worse shape without the rattle. He said "we first noticed it when we drove your car onto the ramps".....I stopped him there saying I hope you didn't drive it considering it had oil pump issues, his reply was we checked there was sufficient oil flow/pressure first.

Either they have ****** the engine and are trying to botch it or the guy simply hasn't fixed my car yet and is looking for more time to replace the oil pump although he said it's already done.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I had a feeling this would be your outcome. Didn't think it would be sorted satisfactorily.
When it initially showed low pressure did you switch off straight away? They reckon you have about half a mile to save damage.
Surely they didn't need to drive it in the lift. If you're low pressure light was on how could they check it had sufficient pressure?
Is there any other garage you could get it too? Although most would be too happy about sorting someone else's mess out.
I feel your pain.
 

Scotsman86

Registered User
Yeah as soon as the dash said check oil I pulled over had a look then called The AA, massive lesson learnt on my side...he did offer to meet me in Carlisle with it when it's fixed to save me a couple hundred miles suppose that's a positive.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
So where in the country is your car then? Just took it to the nearest garage.
And I take it you're in Glasgow?
 
Top