Donuts ?

[Nitro]

As that time of year has come, & after a few vids on youtube, should one find a deserted car park covered in snow and decide a donut or two could be fun, is there any chance of doing damage to the center diff. I drive a A4 2000 model 2,8 quattro

 

[Matt82]

highly doubt youll damage the centre diff, only prob i can see you having is if you have EDL and it goes into overtime trying to stop the inside wheels spinning

 

[Nitro]

I have ESP if thats what you mean? But I can switch that off via a switch on the dash?

 

[Matt82]

esp is just traction control. youll need that off

EDL is electronic diff lock... basically it attempts to stop the inside wheel spinning by applying the brake. id find out if you have that and then decide the risk yourself first... or you could just hoof it and copy the people you see on youtube

 

[Blue_Thunder]

There's a clip on Youtube of some American guy blow his S4 tranny doing donuts in the snow.

I'd be more worried about hidden kerbs and broken bottles though!

 

[Nitro]

Thanks guys, I have just read the owners manual again for my car, even with the ESP off the ABS and EDL remain on. So No donuts for me then!!

 

[Matt82]

id risk a couple, but dont try mccrae style ones where they stand it on the spot and spin it, edl will be in overtime but big old figure of 8s wont hurt

 

[dsmclark40v]

My 2.8q doesn't have ESP so does that mean it also doesn't have a EDL? I have had it sideways before and didn't hear anything electronic wirrling away. I prefer to go out in my landy tho when there is snow everywhere...

 

[docurley]

The B5 do not have EDL and very few face lift B5 A4's have ESP.

 

[Matt82]

my b5 has edl and im pretty sure the b5 tdi i had years ago did too

 

[jcb]

I have neither!! Bring on the snow!

 

[Blue_Thunder]

Think it was only pre-facelift S4's which had EDL.

Mike159 over on AudiSRS wondered why his driveshafts kept snapping when he was launching his 500+bhp S4. Turns out the EDL was locking the rear wheels and subjecting those poor driveshafts to some serious torsion!

 

[twostrokepower]

did loads of donuts in my 2.8Q in the snow and even the local football pitch got some snow or not ! back when i lived in london ,dont worrie go for it have some fun

 

[ian52]

Try it on dry tarmac.

 

[twostrokepower]

dont think so on dry tarmac ! just burn out your clutch

 

[adamss24]

my b5 has edl and im pretty sure the b5 tdi i had years ago did too

Every quattro b5 has EDL its just called Electronic Differential Sphere... I know me last quattro had it also me new v6 tdi one has-it ! I get the noise every time i try to spin the wheels in tight corners ! I am looking forward for snow, need to sort out the tyres first.

 

[ian52]

Never noticed anything on mine when i get the cack end out on the ice. What sort of noise are you getting?

 

[jcb]

mine definitely doesn't.
I can get the rear wheels to hop and squeak on tarmac launching with standard power. never had any electronic wizardry showing on the dash.

mines a 99.5

 

[aragorn]

EVERY B5 quattro has EDL, its part of the quattro system.

Its built into the ABS unit, and acts across each axle to simulate a front/rear locking differential.

 

[jcb]

Electronic?
Well it patently doesn't work on mine then!

 

[docurley]

sorry but there is no electronics on the diff on a A4 quattro I got mine in my shed and there is no electronics on it at all and there was no loom attached to it. If attached to the abs then it would effect the brakes not loom. ESP effects the loud pedal and ABS and the RS4 diff I had did not have electronics on it.

 

[Matt82]

jesus christ... this thread really doesnt put audi types in a good light

EDL is a function of ABS. the wheel speed sensors obviously monitor wheel speed, which is how it detects slip youd get through an open diff

it then applies brakes to the slipping wheel and hence you have an ELECTRONIC DIFFERENTIAL LOCK

 

[docurley]

I was given to belive that the diff had some electronic thing going on and I was just pointing out it did not. Now if I miss understood what was being said is one thing but bring attitude to the thread is not the way to go.

 

[Matt82]

ive not brought any attitude to the thread, but it is mad that a bunch of car enthusiasts have no idea about the cars they drive

 

[jcb]

applying braking force to wheels is NOT a diff lock in any way shape or form.
A Diff lock is exactly that. It locks the diff.

whether done electronically through remote switching of teh centre diff like the old Subaru legacy had on some models. It changed the split to 50:50.

Audi may call it EDL....but it is ABS/ESP at best.

Torsen system as a simple mechanical 4WD system without the fancy electronics found on lots of Japanese systems.

And mine (99 TQS) definitely does not have brake interference when slipping no matter what acronym it might be.

 

[Broken Byzan]

JCB, if you don't have EDL you don't have a quattro.

ALL Quattros have it !!

Only a few have it and ESP.

I am sorry i can't help it that Audi chose to call it EDL over abs interference when wheelspinning lock. A point to note also is it only works at low speeds >10mph

 

[Matt82]

i thoguht it was a bit higher than that, upto 50kph/30mph... lets ask google

 

[Matt82]

turns out its 50mph

Audi responded to this limitation for the first Torsen-equipped cars by adding a manually-locking rear differential and then later replaced this feature with Electronic Differential Lock (EDL), which is the ability to use the individual wheel brakes (monitored by the ABS sensors) to limit individual wheel spin. EDL was implemented across both front and rear (open) differentials to operate at speeds < 80 km/hr. This has the effect of increasing torque from a single low-traction wheel hence allowing more torque to be passed by the Torsen to the remaining high-traction wheels.

 

[Blue_Thunder]

ive not brought any attitude to the thread, but it is mad that a bunch of car enthusiasts have no idea about the cars they drive

I'm enthusiatic about beautiful large breasted ladies, but stick me in an Operating Room with a beautiful woman (anaesthatised - naturally), a large sack of silicone and a scalpel would not be a wise thing to do.

It does not mean i am not an enthusiast.

I'm happy for you that you're a competent mechanic and have the skills to get your hands dirty, but not all of us are. Also, if you look at the sort of people traditionally driving S/RS cars you are probably a lot more likely to find white collar workers such as doctors, accountants, computer peeps (lots of them!), etc.

 

[jcb]

Ah that explians it then.
chances of me spinning wheels under 50mph is slim!

never felt it kick in (whatever it is called!)

 

[Matt82]

I'm enthusiatic about beautiful large breasted ladies, but stick me in an Operating Room with a beautiful woman (anaesthatised - naturally), a large sack of silicone and a scalpel would not be a wise thing to do.

It does not mean i am not an enthusiast.

I'm happy for you that you're a competent mechanic and have the skills to get your hands dirty, but not all of us are. Also, if you look at the sort of people traditionally driving S/RS cars you are probably a lot more likely to find white collar workers such as doctors, accountants, computer peeps (lots of them!), etc.

big breasts are greats, but who here will spout info about operating on them and passing it off as fact?

doctors, accountants, computer peeps (lots of them!) = wannabe experts then? id expect "professionals" to know better than that

as a legal exec, the work we do is valueless if its not factual, so maybe thats where the difference is?

as for edl it can lead to some pretty odd sensations that feel like torque steer, in my experience of it on diesel audis in the past, but i cant say for sure if its actually done anything yet in the S4

 

[jcb]

Screw all that!

ITS SNOWING!!!!! and big flakes too.

 

[Matt82]

we just had an adverse weather warning email.... i cant wait to go out and play

 

[Nitro]

In the original UR quattro you could turn the abs off via a switch. Can you turn the abs off in a facelift A4 quattro?? If so how? As this, in theory would disable the EDL as well.

 

[Matt82]

but then youd have an open diff at either end and i doubt the car would move anywhere at all, spinning one wheel impotently

give it a go, take the abs fuse out

 

[RAPS3]

Snow - where? Its lovely and sunny out of my office window. No fun for me Booo


I did butcher my clutch and DM Flywheel on my old 8P S3 doing some similar antics in the snow many years ago. "Colin Mcrae" style definatley doesnt help the Clutch / flywheel, especially when you go through the snow/ice and hit the lovely solid tarmac :0

I still know I wouldnt be able to help a "little" play should it snow outside

 

[jcb]

Edinburgh.
Slippy as greased weasel sh1t out there!!

 

[andybnwc]

you can drive the car fine without the abs working , as for donuts 1st gear will do it just dont lock the wheel too far else you will hear a kind of grinding noise and it will stop the spin . But all in all i would just drift about a bit rather then a tight donut , make sure theres plenty off room and nothing you could accidently slide in too because you cant stop very easily at all on snow . Trick is to get the car off balance using feint is easiest or a little handbrake . If you turn the wheel hard and boot it you will just go straight on so bear that in mind

 

[Matt82]

and whats "feint", for the benefit of the non drifters here?

 

[andybnwc]

turn opposite direction first then straight back the direction required if you can imagine a chicane left then right when you enter the right bit the car weight has quickly transfered from the right to the left and very unsettled like a pendulem effect. Im sure youtube will have some vids .