Does VW Group 10% No-Deal Brexit surcharge for UK buyers apply to Audi

[WarwickBoy]

Does the 10% extra surcharge in the event of "no deal" that is being asked of British buyers of Porsches by the VW group owned company also apply to new Audi sales? Audi is VM owned too right?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...yers-to-commit-to-10-no-deal-brexit-surcharge

Apparently this came in from 17th January on new orders of Porches and only applies is there is a no-deal. Has anyone ordering a Audi since then been asked to sign a similar contract? An extra £4,000 on a £40,000 car is a bit uplift.

Here's hoping for a deal (or sticking with the deal we have which I think is best for the car industry).

Cheers,

Warwickboy

 

[holly35]

Lots of cancellations looming....

 

[WarwickBoy]

You don't actually think No Deal is going to happen do you?

 

[Nick_B]

Here's hoping for a deal (or sticking with the deal we have which I think is best for the car industry).

Warwickboy

Absolutely - a 'no deal' would be murderous for the car industry along with most other key exports (aerospace etc...).

 

[Nick_B]

You don't actually think No Deal is going to happen do you?

I seriously hope not - but given our current direction of travel with the hard right / ERG effectively running the show we cannot rule it out.

 

[holly35]

Crack on with a no deal and in a few months EU will come back looking for a deal,however on UK terms . The EU wont suffer financial hardship for long.Spain along with Greece Italy and others with be looking for financial help soon......and an extra 38 billion would come in handy im sure...its about time the UK exercised some of its own muscle flexing.After seeing the bulling approach from Europe (who seem to think the world ends outside their borders)i doubt i will buy another EU car again.

 

[WarwickBoy]

Yes, I agree that No Deal Brexit cannot be ruled out. But as the majority of politicians have indicated they don't want this, hopefully they will find a way to stop it, despite it being the default position in the event of a deal not being reached. For those spending anything from £30,000 to £100,000 on a new car, a 10% uplift is probably going to be pain but not a show stopper.

Holly says "Lots of cancellations looming...." however I can't see this happening for these orders, as the possibility of the 10% uplift is known up front and customers are signing a contract agreeing to this. Cancellations would only be made if the 10% extra was introduced without the customer being aware of it.

I suppose that if a no deal Brexit does happen, with the chaos that is predicted to happen the general uncertainty about jobs and the economy may lead to people cancelling car orders, but probably not those who have signed up to this 10%/WTO contract already.

 

[WarwickBoy]

)i doubt i will buy another EU car again.

My wife and I have bought cars bought in the EU (which includes the UK) my entire car history which is
- Original Mini
- Ford Fiesta
- Peugeot 205
- BMW 3 series (318i, 330d, 335i)
- Audi A4 (2.4 SE)
- Ford Focus
- BMW 520D Touring
- Nissan Leaf
- Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works
- Nissan Quasqai

I think these are all EU built? Proud to say I have never - knowingly - had a car built outside the EU.

 

[holly35]

Hmm 4k extra tax on a 40k car is a fair hike.I would say it would make a few people rethink.Its not like your getting 4k of extra kit included.Its money for nothing,making other marques far more attractive.Just my opinion.

 

[WarwickBoy]

Crack on with a no deal and in a few months EU will come back looking for a deal,however on UK terms . The EU wont suffer financial hardship for long.Spain along with Greece Italy and others with be looking for financial help soon......and an extra 38 billion would come in handy im sure...its about time the UK exercised some of its own muscle flexing.After seeing the bulling approach from Europe (who seem to think the world ends outside their borders)i doubt i will buy another EU car again.

Are you saying that if we leave with a No Deal, we could re-join the EU in a few months? I'm not sure this would be a good strategy as I understand we would lose the special benefits we have currently negotiated, namely
- Staying out the Euro
- Our rebate (1/3) of what we put in

Or do you think, if we agreed to the ongoing £38 billion we could go back in and keep these things?

I thought we led the EU from within today? But perhaps leaving with no deal, giving the EU some financial hardship (and no doubt having some financial hardship ourselves) and the re-joining and getting extra concessions is a good target. I'd never considered this option. Thank you Holly for bringing this to my attention.

 

[holly35]

No i wouldnt re-join the EU. There are more ways to skin a cat so to speak,but negotiating on OUR terms with a Canada style agreement lets us trade worldwide and have a deal with the EU but no rule taking from them is possible.
Let them stew a while with no cash injection Use the cash to "buy"concessions. They will soon return to negotiate and the UK will call the shots .World trade will open up outside this stifling money sucking club that controls too much and limits the global prospects for us to expand.Unfortunatley I think the UK are very good at talking themselves down.The media also fuels this with constant ridiculous scare mongering.I hate the term "crashing out" with no deal which is extremely negative,why not balance it with "give up" to Europe" to stay in Europe with a bad deal and becoming a rule taker with no chance of ever being free?
The EU is playing a far better game,no loose cannons disagreeing with the chief negotiator or exposing EU worries.However in the UK all the internal disagreements in/out shake it all about is truly pathetic and childish......The EU has Sky news as well ,they must be wetting themselves at us......I wonder if there is a meaningful vote on the type of toilet paper they use.
Hello Nigel where are you?can you please step in and kick some *** here before we are completely engulfed forever.

 

[Paul Macchiarelli]

They’d be at a loss by doing such a thing. Grow some balls and go no deal!


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[cuke2u]

Yeah but having balls actually, and in reality, makes you more vunerable so I've understood that silly phrase. All I can say to all those blantly misinformed and never bothered to research because I was dumb enough to believe headlines, the effects of leaving the EU will have, I told you so.
So ****** naive...

 

[holly35]

Step 1 leave with no deal,no 39 billion payment (the UK has no legal obligation here) in fact we should be getting a refund for all the assets in buildings we have a share of ,paid for by the UK among other assets.
Step 2 leave them to think about it while they have a huge cash hole which Germany and France will have to plug.Along with massive cash flow problems from demanding poor EU countries.
Step 3 while we negotiate with other countries on trade (with some additional free cash to aid this along with helping people and services in this country)
Step 4 as were negotiating with other world wide countries surprise surprise along come the EU asking for a deal to trade their goods.
Step 5 begin negotiations with Europe on trade as you would with Canada Japans etc. Would you agree a deal with Canada but have to abide by their laws over our country with no say....of course you wouldn't
Europe should be no different.
****** hell ive solved it,took 10 minutes not 3 years and counting( of course the UK MPs are like a stuck record from 3 years ago..........Its all about money.

 

[Bristle Hound]

Does the 10% extra surcharge in the event of "no deal" that is being asked of British buyers of Porsches by the VW group owned company also apply to new Audi sales? Audi is VM owned too right?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...yers-to-commit-to-10-no-deal-brexit-surcharge

Apparently this came in from 17th January on new orders of Porches and only applies is there is a no-deal. Has anyone ordering a Audi since then been asked to sign a similar contract? An extra £4,000 on a £40,000 car is a bit uplift.

Here's hoping for a deal (or sticking with the deal we have which I think is best for the car industry).

Cheers,

Warwickboy

@WarwickBoy -
Time to get a push bike me thinks ...
A British made one mind lol

 

[Terminator x]

Lots of countries not in the EU seem to get by fine, why would the uk be "chaos"? A deal will happen anyway no doubt in my mind but politics will be screwed for years to come imho.

TX.

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[WarwickBoy]

I do think politicians will find a way to make a deal. I’m still worried that no deal is the default if they can’t agree. Perhaps ‘going to the wire’ as many suggest will focus minds.

 

[DarkyUK]

Step 1 leave with no deal,no 39 billion payment (the UK has no legal obligation here) in fact we should be getting a refund for all the assets in buildings we have a share of ,paid for by the UK among other assets.
Step 2 leave them to think about it while they have a huge cash hole which Germany and France will have to plug.Along with massive cash flow problems from demanding poor EU countries.
Step 3 while we negotiate with other countries on trade (with some additional free cash to aid this along with helping people and services in this country)
Step 4 as were negotiating with other world wide countries surprise surprise along come the EU asking for a deal to trade their goods.
Step 5 begin negotiations with Europe on trade as you would with Canada Japans etc. Would you agree a deal with Canada but have to abide by their laws over our country with no say....of course you wouldn't
Europe should be no different.
****** hell ive solved it,took 10 minutes not 3 years and counting( of course the UK MPs are like a stuck record from 3 years ago..........Its all about money.

There is only one point you forgot.... What happens to all of the EU trade while we are out on a no-deal.... For example I sell software into the EU, with a no-deal I will effectively be stuck for X amount of time???

Before I get flamed, I agree with us wanting sovereignty and the ability to make our own rules and I actually do want to leave the EU, its been handled really badly though....

 

[Boosted_Six]

This is the first time in history I've ever heard of a company that wants to sell consumers something, putting a politically motivated tax on their goods. If we leave with no deal, we have the right to waive all tariffs on German cars if they do the same for British ones. Import operations will simply carry on as normal... unless someone in Brussels physically stops boats with bought and paid for cars leaving from Hamburg (I will eat my socks if that happens) they will simply turn up and be processed in the same way that happened for the last 30 years. Porsche are dead to me, I'll remember this stunt.

 

[cuke2u]

Not quite as simple as it seems, under current EU legislation we have protection against tariffs. Without a trade agreement we would the come under WTO legislation and would need to renegotiate every single one. Under WTO tariffs could increase to 38%. We would also then be vunerable to any country who decides to place a tariff upon us, think Trump, think any country who wishes to blackmail us.
We would have the status of a third world...
Also read up on 'just in time' supply chains...

 

[Terminator x]

Not quite as simple as it seems, under current EU legislation we have protection against tariffs. Without a trade agreement we would the come under WTO legislation and would need to renegotiate every single one. Under WTO tariffs could increase to 38%. We would also then be vunerable to any country who decides to place a tariff upon us, think Trump, think any country who wishes to blackmail us.
We would have the status of a third world...
Also read up on 'just in time' supply chains...

The average WTO tariff is under 5% though.

TX.

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[Boosted_Six]

Not quite as simple as it seems, under current EU legislation we have protection against tariffs. Without a trade agreement we would the come under WTO legislation and would need to renegotiate every single one. Under WTO tariffs could increase to 38%. We would also then be vunerable to any country who decides to place a tariff upon us, think Trump, think any country who wishes to blackmail us.
We would have the status of a third world...
Also read up on 'just in time' supply chains...

Please stop reading the Guardian sir

Even with no deal, the tariffs will be what each party wishes it to be; we have a two year window to operate under these mutual terms.

Regardless, the people we pay to steer this ship (who really don't want to step of the gravy train to easy street central) have not yet agreed anything whatsoever with the EU bloc, so arguing about this on the internet with strangers feels like a waste of skin on my typing fingers.

My humble opinion is Porsche have simply played a political card to get news headlines as they have no better insights than anyone else on this mater, so they pulled 10% out of their bottoms to make a statement.

 

[cuke2u]

Please stop reading the Guardian sir

Even with no deal, the tariffs will be what each party wishes it to be; we have a two year window to operate under these mutual terms.

Regardless, the people we pay to steer this ship (who really don't want to step of the gravy train to easy street central) have not yet agreed anything whatsoever with the EU bloc, so arguing about this on the internet with strangers feels like a waste of skin on my typing fingers.

My humble opinion is Porsche have simply played a political card to get news headlines as they have no better insights than anyone else on this mater, so they pulled 10% out of their bottoms to make a statement.

Fortunately my sources are better than any next day food wrappers however if you don't wish to waste your finger skin then why bother to reply?
You are correct in that nothing has been agreed yet however this is a mess because those who voted out did not read beyond the headlines in those food wrappers and the majority of them, realising what a huge mistake they've made, have now seen sense and changed their minds.

I also know from my own working experience what the EU used to invest money and resources into which no previous governments have had the slightest interest in. The EU invested into employment into the UK as a considerable sum of money, yet this government appears to be trying to bankrupt this country in pursuing a poor decision in the first place. As we heard today, another £333,00,000 totally wasted that cannot be invested into the NHS.

Coming back to the point of Porsche, yes they are probably just being speculative. What could be interesting is if other companies follow suit...

 

[Terminator x]

Fortunately my sources are better than any next day food wrappers however if you don't wish to waste your finger skin then why bother to reply?
You are correct in that nothing has been agreed yet however this is a mess because those who voted out did not read beyond the headlines in those food wrappers and the majority of them, realising what a huge mistake they've made, have now seen sense and changed their minds.

I also know from my own working experience what the EU used to invest money and resources into which no previous governments have had the slightest interest in. The EU invested into employment into the UK as a considerable sum of money, yet this government appears to be trying to bankrupt this country in pursuing a poor decision in the first place. As we heard today, another £333,00,000 totally wasted that cannot be invested into the NHS.

As you know though the EU are only "investing" money in the UK that we give them and even then they still keep £9bn of it every year.

TX.

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[cuke2u]

This is correct and always has been the case, but the gains we get are not to be measured in those monetary terms alone.

We get much in protection as being part of the EU and to use another example; the Treasury figures note payments the EU makes directly to the private sector, such as research grants. In 2015, these were worth an estimated £1.5 billion, so including them could reduce our net contribution. There are many other contributions the EU makes that the £9,000,000 figure does not take into consideration.

There are massive building projects that would not happen at all if it wasn't for the EU investment.

Have a read also of what the RIB state https://www.architecture.com/knowle...ge/guidance-for-practices-on-a-no-deal-brexit

 

[Keef]

Having worked with Architects for the past 25 years and currently consulting for one of the UK’s largest, I use this forum to escape the RIBA nonsense! Never thought I’d see it quoted on here

 

[Terminator x]

I consider most on here friends tbf (like minded Audi drivers etc) so will never fall out with anyone over Brexit, on the internet generally though people are still losing their minds about it!

TX.

 

[holly35]

....still prefer we leave no deal.There is a whole world available (including the EU who would soon be looking to secure something in terms of a deal) however let them do the running to London on UK terms.It still astounds me that the UK one of Europe's main contributors is looked apon by the EU as some sort of third world player.Leave Germany.France etc to bridge the missing cash from their budgets as the EU far east countries cant afford it,neither can the rest in fact.They will soon be back....

 

[cuke2u]

As we've seen the subject of Brexit' polarises opinion so I 'll just leave this alone now. The subject of what happens afterwards will never please everyone but the US has already started to nail it's arguments to the mast about chlorine washed and hormone treated chicken and I expect the bullying to commence.
Please all, use this phone box ;-)
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/romney-marsh/news/brexit-boxs-eu-farewell-199823/

 

[WarwickBoy]

Interesting breaking news about the UK car industry that relates to this thread.

Ford axes Bridgend plant months after warning Brexit would destroy UK car industry

The article outlines several factors (I emphasize NOT JUST BREXIT ) as a factor (e.g. increasing electrification of cars and falling diesel sales, have forced car makers to change their business strategies.). However as well as these other factors the article highlights that " Blame has also been placed on Brexit uncertainty, as leaving the EU without a deal could hit complex cross-border supply chains, making it less profitable to produce vehicles in the UK." and "Ford has previously warned that a no-deal Brexit could be ‘catastrophic’ for the British auto industry."

I think the point about complex supply chains is a key one. It will be interesting to see how Brexit pans out, and indeed whether it goes ahead at all. It seems that a no deal Brexit would be damaging for the UK car industry but hopefully parliament would not allow that to happen, as some of the Tory candidates for the leadership position suggest.

 

[A4B9]

The car industry might get destroyed but at least we take back control. Can’t wait for my chlorinated chicken dinner.

 

[Terminator x]

Interesting breaking news about the UK car industry that relates to this thread.

Ford axes Bridgend plant months after warning Brexit would destroy UK car industry

The article outlines several factors (I emphasize NOT JUST BREXIT ) as a factor (e.g. increasing electrification of cars and falling diesel sales, have forced car makers to change their business strategies.). However as well as these other factors the article highlights that " Blame has also been placed on Brexit uncertainty, as leaving the EU without a deal could hit complex cross-border supply chains, making it less profitable to produce vehicles in the UK." and "Ford has previously warned that a no-deal Brexit could be ‘catastrophic’ for the British auto industry."

I think the point about complex supply chains is a key one. It will be interesting to see how Brexit pans out, and indeed whether it goes ahead at all. It seems that a no deal Brexit would be damaging for the UK car industry but hopefully parliament would not allow that to happen, as some of the Tory candidates for the leadership position suggest.

The truth is no one knows yet print opinions in the papers and people are reeled in taking it as fact. Imho the 2016 vote was a simple vote for change eg do something different to get a different result. The fact that it hasn't happened is tragic imho and has dragged politics into the gutter. Not sure it can ever recover.

TX.

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[wideboybloke]

I’ve been visiting my son annually in America for the last 4 years and I’ve eaten chicken on many occasions. It doesn’t taste any different to chicken I’ve eaten in the UK and, as far as I know, I’ve suffered no ill effects.

 

[cuke2u]

It's not about the chlorine wash per se but why it is being used in the first place an what will happen once we actually leave the EU https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-sa...at-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.article
And the farming standards in the USA https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/chickens/

 

[WarwickBoy]

Let’s be clear says Rory. No deal would neither deliver on the referendum, help car manufacturers or speed up our Brexit. All it would achieve is chaos and a further delay to Brexit

Stewart's 'not too personal' swipe at Johnson
http://news.sky.com/video/share-11740011

 

[A4B9]

What do we want? Unicorns!
When do we want them? October 31st!

 

[Boosted_Six]

What do we want? Unicorns!
When do we want them? October 31st!

The EU can pull unicorns out of their bottoms on demand don't you know?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-11/eu-blinks-already-face-no-deal-brexit-eu-finds-unicorn

 

[A4B9]

I’ll believe it when I see it reported by a reputable source

 

[cuke2u]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies

 

[WarwickBoy]

"A No-Deal Brexit or any Brexit which does not result in frictionless trade after Brexit, will result in the loss of jobs for the 1,100 people who work at Elsmerse Port Vauxhall Plant" is my reading of the following article. Remaining would safeguard these jobs. I'm not sure which other forms of Brexit (if any) would save them? Perhaps only those with a Custom's Union?

Vauxhall Astra: Ellesmere Port manufacture 'depends on Brexit'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-48790657

It seems the UK car industry and jobs will be massively impacted by Brexit.

I'm not convinced MPs would allow a No-Deal Brexit given all the downsides?

Is it time for a re-think on Brexit now we have learned (in my view) it is not as easy as was outlined, there are more downsides and less benefits than envisaged?