DIY Intake manifold. Pic heavy.

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
Would Be good if some of the top tuners understood choke though, Not just winding boost up for no more power. Seen it numerous times, such as the image below... clear choke point in higher rom. Identical torque and power but yet a 6 psi boost increase. What caused that?


Actually half interested to buy a SEM inlet and see if there is any difference straight back to back with comprehensive data from the Ecu
wtf are you on about?


the plot posted proving what in whatever arguement you're trying to make?

There's more than choke... Back pressure, egt's, actual flow capacity of turbine and compressor etc etc etc.... as well as intended use of subject car... road. Track etc.. when mapping

Plucking a dyno plot at random to support an argument you're trying to make against **** knows what at this point is absurd - I dont get th epoint you are banging on about.

Boost is a motive force on the inlet.... Flow is what you want to be achieving "through" the motor, not just in, and not just turn it up to 11 like certain tuners have done and do, but overall in and out.... Efficiently!
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Would Be good if some of the top tuners understood choke though, Not just winding boost up for no more power. Seen it numerous times, such as the image below... clear choke point in higher rom. Identical torque and power but yet a 6 psi boost increase. What caused that?


Actually half interested to buy a SEM inlet and see if there is any difference straight back to back with comprehensive data from the Ecu
Are you a little slow?
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
8eaafc7e35c0b192d0eba068755aa44b.jpg

'Identical torque and power'




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Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
8eaafc7e35c0b192d0eba068755aa44b.jpg

'Identical torque and power'




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you not read the rest of the message I wrote.... What do you think is happening at 6500rpm on the graph then?
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Can you not read the rest of the message I wrote.... What do you think is happening at 6500rpm on the graph then?
Looks to me like power is tailing off, why?

It isn't a N/A engine, it's not a v tec bro
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
Why do you think its tailing off? There is a reason for it...and I strangely outlined it in the message where I quoted that picture. You cant see whats happening in the picture/data/dyno plot can you.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
And how do you expect to look?

Im going to make an educated guess that is a standard ko4 car. Standard turbo, standard cams. High rpm is way out of the turbos efficiency range.


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
I'm bored now.

Inlet manifolds are awesome /end


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Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
Shouldnpay more attention at times then. No good posting in a thread about efficiency when you don't even know what to look for.

Let's break it down so the kids can see.

Actuator pressure run at 10psi,
Boost is upped to 20psi peak, and dropping down to 16psi.

You now have 2 lines drawn on your plot for bhp and torque; actuator pressure and mapped boost.

Now look at how the engine power/ torque is behaving throughout that bhp/torque plot. Gains are there midrange, no denying that.

However, if you get to the point in question, which I mentioned when I originally posted the picture, and asked you what you thought was happening at 6500rpm on the plot.

Power and torque lines are the same from that point onwards, yet we have 500mb/6psi more boost going into the inlet. Surely if there is more boost, then the engine should make more power right?
Nope, what's happening is there is a part of the setup on that car which is choking and not being as efficient as it could be, therefore you have hit a brick wall in tuning. time to detune the boost and work out what's going wrong causing the power to drop. All that extra 6psi of boost is going is making a more inefficient setup and creating excess heat from the turbo, which again, has effects on the power of the engine.

All pretty basic stuff for any tuner to see that there is a issue and rectify the mapping to sort it out and send car out the door as being more efficient.
 

beachbuggy

Registered User
More than likely the turbo is out of its effeciency range and either heating up the air.

Boost has a direct relationship between speed and volume. So the same avolume of air moved faster will be at a higher pressure than than of the same air at a lower speed. It's why a gt35 at 25psi flows more air than a k03s at 25 psi.

I think you've assumed the turbo isn't the choke here which I would almost certainly say looking at those graphs and it's final power it is.

Just my 2pence
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
However, turbo is irrelevant when there is no increase in power with a much higher boost level though?
 

beachbuggy

Registered User
I'd say it's completely relevant.

You can have the same volume of air at 2 different pressures if the speed is different.
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
In which case in the example it's actually less efficient
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
Shouldnpay more attention at times then. No good posting in a thread about efficiency when you don't even know what to look for.

Let's break it down so the kids can see.

Actuator pressure run at 10psi,
Boost is upped to 20psi peak, and dropping down to 16psi.

You now have 2 lines drawn on your plot for bhp and torque; actuator pressure and mapped boost.

Now look at how the engine power/ torque is behaving throughout that bhp/torque plot. Gains are there midrange, no denying that.

However, if you get to the point in question, which I mentioned when I originally posted the picture, and asked you what you thought was happening at 6500rpm on the plot.

Power and torque lines are the same from that point onwards, yet we have 500mb/6psi more boost going into the inlet. Surely if there is more boost, then the engine should make more power right?
Nope, what's happening is there is a part of the setup on that car which is choking and not being as efficient as it could be, therefore you have hit a brick wall in tuning. time to detune the boost and work out what's going wrong causing the power to drop. All that extra 6psi of boost is going is making a more inefficient setup and creating excess heat from the turbo, which again, has effects on the power of the engine.

All pretty basic stuff for any tuner to see that there is a issue and rectify the mapping to sort it out and send car out the door as being more efficient.
you are making so many assumptions in your conclusions..
whatever makes you happy, however wrong you are, and however Off track in terms of talking intake manifolds..

the point remains, intake manifolds when done right can and DO gain efficiency.............. A point you clearly seem incapable or grasping
Posting a K250 plot at different boost levels, of a car of unknown full spec to make your conclusions... LOL
 
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