1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dismiss Notice

Differences between AEB and AJL

audinary Nov 4, 2008

  1. audinary

    audinary Complete And Utter Member

    676
    1
    18
    I've tried using the thread search...

    What actually are the differences between the 150ps AEB and the 180ps AJL? I've been intrigued for a while. Also, which B5s had it and how can you tell externaly?

    Just curious.
     
  2. Avatar

    snack-media
    Advertisement


  3. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    afaik the only B5 to have the 180hp engine was the Quattro Sport model.

    The engine has a larger turbo (K03s) but i'm not sure how the cylinder head/gudgeon pins compare with the AEB, i would imagine it will have the same larger gudgeon pins the AEB has, but i'm not sure if its running a large or small port head.

    Otherwise its probably going to be pretty much identical.
     
  4. audinary

    audinary Complete And Utter Member

    676
    1
    18
    So the 150 has the straightforward KO3? (i'm still learning!)
     
  5. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    yep!
     
  6. Markey

    Markey Active Member

    2,175
    1
    38
    I think the AEB has the large port head compared to the AJL with the small port.
     
  7. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
  8. audinary

    audinary Complete And Utter Member

    676
    1
    18
    Interesting. Also intriguing me is that most chips seem to indicate a bigger gain with the K03 than the K03s. Eg 150hp to 192, and 180hp to 211. Hmm. I like the idea of a smaller turbo as it will spool up quicker. Probably won't really notice the difference.

    What I did notice when stripping the front end yesterday is how much pipework there is for the air intake / intercooler / turbo. Just how many horsepower are we all losing while the air works its way around that little lot?
     
  9. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    yeah that was the main reason I didn't go for a generic remap on my 1.8tqs.
    I was only going to get about 30bhp for £500!!
    screw that!

    not sure what the differencr is between ko3 and the s version. suspect it is very little, at most a bigger compressor turbine in the same size housing ....they don't look too different
     
  10. Twinkle666

    Twinkle666 Oil Burner...

    14
    0
    1
    JCB,
    I had my 1.8TQS (ajl engine) remapped at the Chip 'n' Spin meet earlier in the year in Bromsgrove. That cost me £250. On paper 30 bhp sounds naff but it really changed the performance of the car, more torque etc. It drives now how it should have been leaving the factory. That quattro system sure saps that 180 bhp from the 1.8t engine but I wouldn't be without it. Keep an eye out for the next meet its well worth it mate. :beerchug:
     
  11. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    £250 sounds great.
    I am well past having a remap now unfortunately, got a bit carried away and started a big turbo build.......I will be increasing by closer to 230bhp than 30bhp.
    would like to come to an audi meet though, never been to one
     
  12. Avatar

    snack-media
    Advertisement


  13. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    You going fully mappable then JCB?

    Even though your engine is highly tuned, it might still be worth checking if the stock ECU can be remapped to run it, because no aftermarket ecu will run the engine as nicely as the stock unit, especially for a daily driver.

    Mapping the main fuel/ingition maps is fine, but the time and money goes into all the fine stuff, and its the fine stuff that make the car start nicely regardless of weather conditions and run perfectly happily in a traffic jam at 5mph and all the other things a daily driver has to endure!
     
  14. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    stock ECU running Tapp Auto 630cc file for MAF equipped turbo.
    because it is a MAF file the boost is not specifically tuned into the map, it runs on airflow.
    turn the boost up, more air, map delivers more fuel, more power.
    It is just tuned to the injector size and all the other usual sensors
     
  15. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    i suspect the 1.8T uses MAF for its main fuelling anyway, the pressure sensor is only there for mild corrections and diagnostic purposes (ie detecting overboost and controlling the amal valve etc)

    The only thing you'll have to watch is that you dont run out of MAF capacity, and/or you dont run off the end of the mapped range (ie if the map contains data upto 300g/sec and your peaking at 350g/sec), as things will melt!
     
    Inline4doors likes this.
  16. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    Inline4doors likes this.
  17. S3 Rav

    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

    2,861
    81
    48
    sorry to bring this up again guys, so if my cousin who has a 2000 w reg 1.8tqs with ajl does that mean he has the ko3s turbo?. many thanks.
     
  18. Siena

    Siena Active Member

    2,626
    5
    36
    He'll have the K03-s, yes.
     
  19. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    13,232
    470
    83
    Well should have, but there seems to be the odd k03 making it to some of the AJL Cars. Ian52 and Docurleys old ones were ko3 turbos but still gave respectable outputs. Now whether these were replaced after the car was built or whether VW used the last few ko3 units and just stuck em in who knows at this moment
     
  20. ian52

    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

    1,198
    1
    36
    yep mine is a k03. not sure if it means my car would have been about 150bhp before the chip and about 190 now so just over standard of if it would have still been 180 and nearer 200 now instead of 210-220. all i know is i would have prefered it to be a k03's like it should be.
     
  21. S3 Rav

    S3 Rav Well-Known Member

    2,861
    81
    48
    thanks for the input as always guys. i'll go tell him the potentially good news!
     
  22. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    i've heard a lot of these turbos fail at some point around 120-160k, with 140k being quite a hot spot.

    Ours was changed at 120k.

    As such its quite likely that its been changed previously, and thats why its not got the correct blower on it.
     
  23. Geeman

    Geeman Low Life

    1,313
    6
    36
    So where does that put the APU engine...? Large or small port head?
     
  24. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    13,232
    470
    83
    APU is small port head mate and DBW
     
  25. Geeman

    Geeman Low Life

    1,313
    6
    36
    DBW...?
     
  26. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    Drive by Wire.

    No throttle cable, instead theres a throttle pot attached to the pedal, and a fully electronic throttle body on the engine, controlled by the ECU.
     
  27. Geeman

    Geeman Low Life

    1,313
    6
    36
    Doh! :keule:

    Aragorn... slightly off topic, but I used to date a girl who lived a bit up the coast from you in Blackness... lovely place, lovely girl. :wub:
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  28. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Active Member

    422
    98
    28
    DBW seem to get about another 10 bhp when chipped.
    Ours ( hers.....) has a throttle cable and produces 208 bhp - now.This was not a generic chip but done by Geoff at AMD on his rolling road ( when they were in Oddington not the later set up...)

    I always thought that the 180 bhp engines had a different head to the original 150bhp ( slightly different ports I seem to remember reading about-- it was 10 years ago! ) However quoting from the dealers info sheet at the time
    'the increase in power has been achieved by means of a modified ignotion characteristic map and a slightly higher boost pressure'

    I did not think that the B5s ever got KO3s ...... my B6 190 does have and doesn't go as well as the B5 -- but does get several mpg better!
    Interesting about the turbo life though at 73000 I've probably not got an excuse for the KO4 route.... yet !!
    Ours was ordered as soon as they were announced and on the road in July 1999.....so is a very early one ......and incidentally qualifies for the scrapping £2k.............argh !
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  29. docurley

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    4,084
    94
    48
    Your car is worth more than 2k if in good condition.

    The Turbo on the 180bhp cars has a different part number to all the other B5's and is known as a K03s even in the US and some shop websites. The 190bhp B6 came with a even higher spec K03s turbo and with a set of 380 injectors and a remap could see a strong 235bhp which the 180bhp B5 would never reach.
     
  30. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    any details on the specs of the KO3, Ko3s and Ko4 anyone?
    would be interested to compare wheel sizes and A/R
     
  31. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Active Member

    422
    98
    28
    Thanks , very informative.
    Yes the car is worth more than £2K actually to ME it's worth what I paid for it !
    73k miles original owner all bills MOTs etc a few paint chips on the front but generally in very good condition, exhaust is beginning to look a bit rusty in places.
    Yes I have a buddy who bought a B6 much the same time as I did. His has remap, Milltec and Oettinger inlet pipe, showing about 225 bhp IIRC.
    According to some of the German websites ( Oettinger for starters) the clutch starts to get a bit marginal at that power level.

    I remember you did loads to yours.....

    People talk about KO4 lag but I have to say I never noticed anything when I had my S3 .
    I'd be interested in th e various differences as well as jcb -- sad innit !!
    Hybrid turbos must be the best compromise?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  32. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    Binning the KKK and fitting a T28 is the ONLY sensible option IMO.

    For the money you spend on a hybrid K04 which is going to make 250hp if your lucky, you can pick up a 200SX S14A T28 blower, manifold, intercooler and pipe it all up, and you'll have a setup good for ~300hp
     
  33. Avatar

    snack-media
    Advertisement


  34. gmx

    gmx Member

    148
    3
    18
    Sorry to bump this...

    I was told by mechanic engineer that the AEB and AJL head are different.

    Has anyone had these two side by side and can actually document differences?

    I don't care about the turbo differences, I just want to know about cylinder head differences, Intake manifold-Throttle body -> fuel rail. Injector type?

    I'm amazed after a decade no one really knows or has documented anything.
     
  35. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    18,716
    904
    113
    Its exactly the same head.

    Same injectors, same fuel rail, same inlet manifold.

    The AJL is an AEB with a different turbo.
     
  36. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
  37. docurley

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    4,084
    94
    48
    My old turbo was not a K03s!!!!:ohmy::think:
     
  38. gmx

    gmx Member

    148
    3
    18
    Ok 1 more question.

    Are the MAFs the same PNs bewteen the AEB & AJL?
    I assumed Timing belt/timing components are 100% the same part numbers too, but need reassurance.


    The reason I bumped this thread is because... I was under the same belief. But my Independant called and said the 034 stock fit/position Manifold needs to be machined to fit. He will photograph and document upcoming issues for me.
     
  39. jamie226bhp

    jamie226bhp Member

    467
    1
    18
    what gains did you actually get and was this a custom map have you any other mods as i've been told by AMD that i'll get upto 200bhp on my AJL engine which is only a 20 bhp gain
     
  40. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Active Member

    422
    98
    28
    My original remap was a custom one done by Geoff Everett at AmD ( original Amd in Oddinton not all the subsequent reincarnations ! ) and came out at 208 bhp, up from the 180.
    It does make the car drive very much better. Later DBW versions seem to get another 10 bhp( ours is a July 1999 registered car and has a throttle cable -- it was ordered about late May as soon as the model was announced).
     
  41. jcb

    jcb Active Member

    4,121
    15
    38
    what ****** me off about the usual off teh shelf maps was a guy in a 150bhp mk4 golf drives out with 200-210.....up to 60bhp up for his money.
    I drive in with a 180bhp and out with the same power as him for the same money. where is the equality in that!
     
  42. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    13,232
    470
    83
    I think the main reason for the smaller increase is our turbo is already working harder to produce the 180BHP it already does.

    I am hacked off slightly that a k04'd A3/S3/Golf gets an off the shelf map and around 260-280bhp ( depends who you ask) and we have to go custom. and finding someone worth their beans is hard
     
  43. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    13,232
    470
    83
    You probably have the analouge clock on the white dash like mine then.

    All AJLs are DBC arn't they? It's not till the APU (FWD) that the B5 in the UK went DBW. The B6's are mostly if not all, and then they are Me7 and thus flashable too
     

Share This Page

Do Not Sell My Personal Information