Desperation time.

g60leigh

Registered User
I've had a major engine rebuild and a few hurdles along the way. But hitting these problems at end of the journey and not able to get past them.

Continuously getting the following fault codes.

17748
Fault Description-
Camshaft position (CMP) sensor 1, bank 1/crankshaft position (CKP) sensor - out of sequence
Possible Cause-
Valve timing, CKP/CMP sensor installation, CKP sensor rotor

16705
Fault Description-
Crankshaft position (CKP) sensor/engine speed (RPM) sensor - range/performance problem
Possible Causes-
Air gap, metal particles, insecure sensor/rotor, wiring, CKP/RPM sensor

16711
Fault Description-
Knock sensor (KS) 1, bank 1 - low input
Possible Causes-
Insecure KS, poor connection, wiring short to earth, incorrectly tightened, KS

16396
Fault Description-
Camshaft position (CMP), intake/left/front, bank 1 - timing over-retarded
Possible Causes-
Valve timing, camshaft position (CMP) actuator

Symptoms wise, the car is running well right up until under high boost full load and get a strong pull back.

I have done everything I can think of to rectify this:
Timing belt timing checked
Timing chain timing checked
New sensors (both knock, cam position, engine coolant)
New coils, plugs and also coil wiring loom
Seems to have loads of fuel pressure although I'm going to change in tank and inline pump just to be sure.

Is there one thing that could be causing all of these errors or do I need to revisit something? Seems strange to be getting these errors together and repeating even with new sensors.
All started after had engine rebuild with forged internals and 83mm bore.

Also had an issue with it smoking but seem to be on top of that now. (Burning oil)

Getting so close to giving in and stripping it for parts now.

Helpppppp


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sam porter

Registered User
I'm in no means an expert with these engines but I think tuffty had a problem like this when he missed shifted and overreved. I'm pretty sure his timing looked ok but he had actually damaged the crank sprocket (I think) As I said I've only just got into the Vag scene but just something to check I suppose.

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g60leigh

Registered User
@<tuffty/>


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
17748
Fault Description-
Camshaft position (CMP) sensor 1, bank 1/crankshaft position (CKP) sensor - out of sequence
Possible Cause-
Valve timing, CKP/CMP sensor installation, CKP sensor rotor
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17748/P1340/004928

Cam belt a tooth out typically throws this... double check by physically setting TDC by sticking something down cyl 1 plug hole and double check the timing marks on the flywheel, cam pulley and the crank damper pulley. Also worth taking the cam cover off to validate cam to cam timing is correct.

Another member on here was having similar issues and was diagnosed by Bill at the workshop in the end to be a loose crank bolt

16705
Fault Description-
Crankshaft position (CKP) sensor/engine speed (RPM) sensor - range/performance problem
Possible Causes-
Air gap, metal particles, insecure sensor/rotor, wiring, CKP/RPM sensor

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16705/P0321/000801

Faulty crank sensor or wiring

16711
Fault Description-
Knock sensor (KS) 1, bank 1 - low input
Possible Causes-
Insecure KS, poor connection, wiring short to earth, incorrectly tightened, KS

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16711/P0327

Sounds like faulty wiring... could be related to the crank sensor fault above... (and maybe the cam position one too if the timing checks out)

16396
Fault Description-
Camshaft position (CMP), intake/left/front, bank 1 - timing over-retarded
Possible Causes-
Valve timing, camshaft position (CMP) actuator
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16396/P0012/000018

Typically a sign the VVT is failing and requires replacement...

I'd double check the timing again... getting to physical TDC is key... its what the rest of the engine will be timed off...

Then check the wiring... earths are a common point of failure under the battery tray... might also be worth checking the following wiring diagram
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_V9-6xfgGlIVW5wWkd0VE5FcnM/view

Its for an AMK ECU...

<tuffty/>
 

g60leigh

Registered User
That's absolutely brilliant Paul. Really appreciate it as gives me something more concrete to go at.
I'm going to find a time served vag tech to check this timing for me as don't trust myself anymore.


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g60leigh

Registered User
Is there any reference to show resistance engine sensors should be? Just thinking of testing them all too.

Also the VVT is all new.


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g60leigh

Registered User

Scullies

Registered User
Double check the 16 link cam chain timing. Inlet link on the mark and exhaust link just past the mark.
Then crank to cam timing.
Measure TDC through spark plug whole on first cylinder and then line up the cam timing mark on the valve cover.
You need to keep tension on the cam sprocket while installing the belt as the cam will slowly move one tooth out if no tension is on the gear. Once installed, turn engine over by hand for 4 revolutions.
Measure TDC again and double check cam cover timing mark. Physical put something thin like a Stanley blade on the cam pulley mark and across the belt to ensure it lines up with the valve cover mark. Don't put the sharp edge of the blade on the belt :wink new:
 

g60leigh

Registered User
Not yet. I've now got a blow at turbo / downpipe so that's getting done now and then taking it over to local VAG specialist to time and check


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g60leigh

Registered User
Cars goin in on 9th so hopefully will get all set up and be done with these gremlins


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g60leigh

Registered User
Seems to be the cam chain tensioner at fault as timing is spot on until you reach 3750 rpm then all goes to pot.

Annoying as this was replaced 2 years ago and done less than 1200 miles


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g60leigh

Registered User
Yes I believe so. But will get them to confirm. Why?


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g60leigh

Registered User
Bit further checking and it's not the cam chain tensioner at fault. Still no further forward.


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g60leigh

Registered User

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
Whats block 093 timing correction value?

Myself and a few others, who all know a 1.8T pretty damn well, all had issues with the engine saying the timing was out, despite being timed up 110% correct. People were seeing around -8 to -12 KW on the camshaft timing correction maps, meaning a lack of performance and the ECU popping a fault code for the cams being out. Solution was to fit a vernier and tweak until the value reads 0KW correction.
 

g60leigh

Registered User
Whats block 093 timing correction value?

Myself and a few others, who all know a 1.8T pretty damn well, all had issues with the engine saying the timing was out, despite being timed up 110% correct. People were seeing around -8 to -12 KW on the camshaft timing correction maps, meaning a lack of performance and the ECU popping a fault code for the cams being out. Solution was to fit a vernier and tweak until the value reads 0KW correction.

I can have a look at that over the weekend mate. Do I need to check that at static load or across a rev range?

Thanks


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g60leigh

Registered User
Mine is showing -17kw at both idle. Engine off and at load.


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Would that indicate the cam gear is installed wrong?
 

g60leigh

Registered User
Would that indicate the cam gear is installed wrong?

Is it possible to install them wrong? Just had the timing checked again and it's spot on. Also a new cam chain tensioner


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Is it possible to install them wrong? Just had the timing checked again and it's spot on. Also a new cam chain tensioner


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I mean the gear on the cam itself. If that's wrong, you could have it appear to be installed correctly but actually the cam itself would be out.
I'm just elaborating on what he said above having to fit a vernier
Have you changed the cams at all or are they all original?


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g60leigh

Registered User
Cams and gears are all original. Have you fitted a vernier? Where is best to get one from.


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Cams and gears are all original. Have you fitted a vernier? Where is best to get one from.


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I wouldn't imagine that's the problem then.
I don't have one no



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g60leigh

Registered User
Have you check the timing by physically measuring TDC of no.1 piston, then checking the cam gear markings?

Just thinking you might have a crank gear that's stripped.

Yes I think so bud. I'm gonna double check they did that now tho.


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Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
-17kw is well out. TBH, the car must feel pretty flat with timing corrections that much.

I went from -8KW on mine to setting it to 0KW and the difference was night and day, Engine could be felt and seen flowing much more freely due to the bit boost it dropped. It felt like vtec kicking in when it was set up properly, it was that noticable.



To check you need to clear codes and then open block 093 and let engine see what it comes up with in the block.
 

g60leigh

Registered User
-17kw is well out. TBH, the car must feel pretty flat with timing corrections that much.

I went from -8KW on mine to setting it to 0KW and the difference was night and day, Engine could be felt and seen flowing much more freely due to the bit boost it dropped. It felt like vtec kicking in when it was set up properly, it was that noticable.



To check you need to clear codes and then open block 093 and let engine see what it comes up with in the block.

I can do that today.

For it to be going so far out tho. What could be causing that?


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