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Dead 2.0 Tfsi Engine. Options: Rebuild, Recon, Set On Fire??

JudderMan Sep 15, 2014

  1. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Hi all

    Having been a TFSI owner for exactly a month, it died on me yesterday. No dash lights, no EML, just knocking and juddering. Managed to get the 50ft to my mate's MOT garage who is gonna look at it this week, but reckons it's better to swap out the engine for a 2nd hand one and rebuild the dead one to then sell on hopefully making a big chunk of money back from the initial outlay of the 2nd hand unit.

    Having seen lots of 'dead engine' threads on various forums, it looks like it could be small/big end bearings or cam tensioner has snapped/exploded. I had a cam follower in the glovebox ready to replace this week and pick up pipe to do as well. I drove it fairly fast on Friday, which must have been the killer. Didn't drive it on Saturday, then Sunday it was knocking like a mofo.

    Anyhoo, wondered what your expert opinions are as a reconditioned engine from Engine Engineering is 1500 (inc VAT) for a totally fresh engine (head skim, all new gaskets, all new parts basically) with my dead one as an exchange. A 2nd hand unit is 1100 quid but then I have my engine to rebuild and make that money back...but then I'm stuck with an old engine...unless I swap that one in. Or do I buy a runaround until my engine is rebuilt? How much is a rebuild - lets say a crank regrind, possibly pistons if any damage, bearings and all associated parts?

    As my car was around £1200 cheaper than others on the market were (guy took it as part ex and tries to shift cars every week), it makes sense to have that figure as a benchmark figure. If I take a recon unit then it should ('should') be good for lots of years to come and resale might be higher than the equivalent car with an old engine but then again I've just spunked a lot of money on the car and a recon unit would wipe out funds.

    Also the 2nd hand one I've seen is a BWA from an 07 A3. Mine is a BGB (I think), does this cause any problems?

    All help appreciated :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
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  3. Mike.M

    Mike.M Registered User

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    Buy a cheap £200 car like a Polo 6n to get you about and get your engine rebuilt...........then sell cheap car on :)
     
  4. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Thanks Mike. How much approx do you reckon a rebuild is? It's just the space issue at my mate's garage would mean I would probably have to pay for storage of the car/engine while it gets rebuilt as they get really busy and don't have huge amounts of space.

    He works there part time as an MOT tester as he is a fireman who does 4 days on/off so plays with cars on 2 of his 4 days off. So, I would have to pay for ramp time/storage etc as it's not his main place of business. I know it's odd but he's the only one I really trust with my cars.

    I have seen some cheapy cars available so that definitely is an option. The wife wouldn't be too pleased no doubt LOL.
     
  5. Mike.M

    Mike.M Registered User

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    Had my wifes fsi engine rebuilt last year by a mate who is an indi VAG group specialist for £1500 and that included all parts........£400 of that was for a NOX sensor as that failed soon after lol - Trade price too!!
     
  6. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Hmm thanks Mike. Seems that a rebuild isn't really going to make me back any money compared to just swapping it for an exchange + rebuilt engine.
     
  7. Mike.M

    Mike.M Registered User

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    Its the time and labour of doing it all...........hate to imagine what a main dealer would have charged to do it.
     
  8. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    I know I'm asking to be spoonfed but I can't find an exact answer, which engine codes would fit my car? I have seen lots of BWA for sale, mostly from 07 cars. Are these OK? If I bought a engine that had a DSG box on it, is this OK for my manual car? I know these are probably simple questions but I really don't want to make a mistake when buying an engine.
     
  9. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    Any of the tfsi's will fit your car. You'll just need to change the pick up pipe and sump from your engine (assuming this isn't the cause of the problem) if you go for a transverse engine like the BWA.
    I've done 3 of these now, 2 with oil pump failure.

    If it's knocking it's more than likely spun a shell like the one that I bought of Alistair. In which case, the damage is already done.

    From experience, I would strip the current engine and see what can be salvaged if anything but unless your gonna bore out the current block and put oversized pistons in it, the likely hood is you won't make any money. The block is probably worn and may have a bit of piston slap aswell, not to mention all the swarf running around the engine destroying everything else.

    I would buy the BWA as it has the revised inlet camshaft, put a new pick up pipe, chain and tensioner, cambelt and water pump in etc and put it back on the road. You will be lucky if you manage to do all that for less than £1500 unless you know someone who will do it for a few beers or you can do it yourself.
    Ideally a clutch and flywheel would be needed but not essential. Other option is you sell it as spare or repairs as it is and cut your losses.
    Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I've been as honest as possible from experience. I have loads of parts, blocks pistons etc from the TFSI. If you need a chat just gimi a call. 07715407915.

    Best of luck mate.
     
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  10. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Thanks Craig that's great info.

    I think I'll buy the bwa and as mentioned add all new bolt on bits you suggested. Would love to invest in a new turbo but that's gonna happen.

    Found a bwa for 1100 2nd hand or a recon unit for 1500 plus 300 for fitting.

    With cam belt etc that would take the 2nd hand unit up to 1500 as well surely? Might as well get the recon engine then?
     
  11. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    Yeah it will probably take it upto the same price, as long as the recon isn't an exchange unit. If your not bothered about breaking your old engine then I would probably go for the recon.
     
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  13. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Hmm I'm going backwards and fowards with this.

    Maybe the 2nd hand engine with new chain, belts etc plus fitting would be around £1700 going off eurocarparts prices so my mate could probably so better prices on the parts.

    The recon would still need new chain etc and is an exchange. I could still get something of I broke my dead engine as you mentioned.

    I think the 2nd hand unit tarted up is the best choice.
     
  14. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    Atleast with a second hand engine with all new parts you know exactly what's been changed on it. Just add some new injector seals on to the list as well. That way your leaving nothing to chance. If your keeping it for the foreseeable and your thinking of more power in the long run, I'd be tempted to grab myself a CDL, BHZ (S3 engine) or a BYD (Ed 30 engine) that way you have stronger rods and pistons for future mods. Just a thought.
     
  15. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Injector seals, good shout mate.

    Yeah seen a few cdl engines for sale but tbh the only increase in power would be a remap nothing else.

    Keeping it for the foreseeable future lol I was expecting to have it running for longer than a month haha. Probs keep it for 2 years I guess. Plan is to get the wife driving 30 this year with no license! And get her something to cart the baby around in and I can then start looking at 997s but not if every Audi I own keeps on failing.

    I think I'll get the bwa and replacement bits. Could have it all done for 1700. Thanks again for your help and advice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  16. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    No problem mate, good luck with the rebuild! :)
     
  17. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Me again, is.it fairly straightforward to change an engine.myself? I've done plenty on mk2 escorts but never on a 'new' car. I have looked and it seems Ok but are there any pitfalls?

    Haven't heard back from my mechanic friend and don't trust anyone else to do it - nor want to pay their hourly rates.
     
  18. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    It's not the most straight forward job in the world to be honest mate, could do with VCDS to do a reset afterwards as well. It's more putting it back together as apose to taking it out.
     
  19. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Update, I've asked another mechanic that has been a family friend for 30-odd years and he will do it for the same price as mechanic 1..

    However....mechanic 1 came to see the car just before I took it to mechnic 2 and said it wasn't the bottom end, it's top-end. Rattling and knocking which sounds like the cam follower has blown through probably and is rattling around? Not sure how much damage this has done. Anyway, it's the capable hands of my friend now. He's gonna see if there is any piston damage or any other damage. Thankfully, it sounds like it will be cheaper than a full new engine. I've had quotes from 1095-1295 today, which isn't too bad for anyone else that might need one - best price is from enginesfirstltd.co.uk for reference £1095 for a completely reconditioned BGB delivered.

    So, as I don't know a bottom end knock from a top end one, what's the guessing on the damage from you guys? Not sure anyone is selling just a head, if that's what's needed, or is it a case of clearing out any metal bits, replace cam follower and possibly intake cam and fuel pump (so say the Internet).

    If so, I've been lucky but I'm not gonna count no ****** chickens yet, plus I don't live near any farms or nowt ;)
     
  20. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    If it's is the Hpfp cam follower then it probably wouldn't run due to low or zero fuel pressure. If it is a top end rattle then it's been starved of oil at some point. In which case the damage Is done. If the tensioner has gone then I would imagine it wouldn't run either due to timing issues. Could be anything, everyone on here were happy that it wasn't anything heavy with the A4 I've just done, but I was convinced it sounded heavy and bottom end. I was right, it had spun a shell. Fingers crossed there won't be any major damage, but I would expect the worst.
     
  21. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Hmm it does run has a little grey smoke for a few seconds. I'm remaining positive though for now that it's not a full engine out job.

    Will update once he's had a look at it today or tomorrow.
     
  22. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    I've got a block for an edition 30 with pistons and rods, and a head that wants a rebuild if you get stuck?
     
  23. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    He said the piston is hitting the head.... Is that right? Surely it wouldnt run. It sounded more of a rattle knock than a knock knock. I've heard worse engines to be honest.

    So much for feeling positive..
     
  24. Rrobson

    Rrobson Registered User

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    If you've only had the car for a month, why aren't you taking it back to the place you bought it?

    Comes under the sales of good act I think, where by a dealer has the right to only sell cars in serviceable condition, without fault unless otherwise stated. If it was sold as spares repairs etc there naff all you can do, but if it was sold as working you can take it back to them and get it sorted upto something like 6 month after purchase for major bits.
    Have a look at trading standards, I've had to got through them before, with good results. Unless it can be proved you caused the problem through operation neglect etc
     
  25. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Hi Rrobson

    I bought from a trader that deals with Corsas but he took the A4 in as part ex and shifted it on within a week or so of having it. I signed a form saying sold as seen on the day of purchase which I do when I sell my cars. I've driven it for a month (1300-1400 miles I think) and for all he knows I could have been screwing the living daylights out of it (although I wasn't), and then I go back asking for my money back, if it was the other way around I'd feel like I was taking the micky.

    Just tried to order a new engine.....they've just sold the last two they had rebuilt this morning. Brilliant. Now I have to wait until they get the old ones (or mine) back to rebuild then for them to send it back.
     
  26. Rrobson

    Rrobson Registered User

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    Sold as seen isn't as concrete as you think, the car I bought also included this statement in the description but trading standards told me it doesn't mean much. All it means is you've agreed your happy with the car the day you bought it. If a major fault develops like this, they are still breaching the sale of goods act because it was sold fault free.
    If you bought a blender and it stopped working after a month you'd want it to be fixed at the very least. Same applies to cars.
    Even if he won't give you money back, you could get a good portion of it paid for. After all, money towards the dealer fixing it is better for him as he doesn't have to take back a broken car, and better for you because it costs you less to fix
     
  27. sx_turbo

    sx_turbo Registered User

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    if you have a vat reciept given to you by the trader, then under the sales of goods act, in theory he still has to swallow the cost, if you can prove there was a fault already there when he sold it
     
  28. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Don't think I got a VAT receipt will have to check. I think I just got a copy of the thing I signed. It does have the guy's company details etc on as it was sold through his LTD company.

    I've just had a quote from an engine rebuilder and they said they'd already given a quote for my registration number 5-6 weeks ago.....1-2 weeks before I bought it....

    RRobson, does that still include 2nd hand cars with 122k miles on the clock?

    I'm sending him an email today, so I have it in writing, stating the above info. I'm gonna assume he'll flip his lid.
     
  29. novril

    novril Registered User

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    Car sales have to be fit for purpose if sold by a dealer. A compulsory 3 month warranty has to be given. If the car is deemed unfit for purpose you can request a full refund (or partial if massive miles) as unfit for purpose.

    I'd get in touch with the dealer after making a script of your rights to read to him and see what they say. To be honest I'd Park it outside and go and collect my monies if something like that happened!
     
  30. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    He said he only had it a week and was running fine no knocking when I bought it which was true.

    Sod it, Im gonna order a recon engine. Theres a porches engineering place that upgrades the oil pump and does a full rebuild for similar money to what I was looking at.

    The original place I was going to by a rebuilt engine from sold two this morning so doesn't have any ready to ship.
     
  31. Rrobson

    Rrobson Registered User

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    Hmm, that sounds a bit suspect. Sounds like the dealer knew something was wrong! No wonder it was cheap!

    But sure does. Could have a million miles on it. If it's been sold as a working car with no faults listed or told to you, you are well within your rights to go back to the dealer and work out a settlement.

    Best thing to do is get in touch with trading standards. Give them a call, they are usually really helpful. Will talk you through everything. They will probably start off by getting you to send a letter to the dealer with the issues, think they even give you an example letter.

    Difficult to say what the dealer will do though, he may take the car back and give you a refund, may offer a settlement, or may be a complete pain.
    When I had to do it the car was only £1500, but suffered head gasket within the first week. Got £600 off the dealer which covered most of the cost to fix.
     
  32. Rrobson

    Rrobson Registered User

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    By all means fix, but it may be difficult to get anything off the dealer if your bothered. I know what I'd do though!

    And having re-read your post, sounds like the previous owner may have made the inquiry. Knocking could have been covered up prior to part ex.
     
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  34. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    This is what I've been struggling to figure out is how could you cover up knocking?

    The engine builder is in Norwich and the previous owner before the trader I bought it from lived in Kent so it could well be them.

    Anyway if I was the trader Id feel hard done by having to pay out for a car he just shifted on in a week. There's another tfsi on ebay for 2999 the same as mine. He probably got it for the equivalent of 2k as a part ex and sold it to me for 2650. 650 quid for just listing on ebay isn't too bad profit.
     
  35. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Cam follower is fine, some wear but not too much. The piston moves 4mm through the spark plug hole, so something is wrong there, and it's hitting the head.

    I contacted the trader and he said everything was fine when I bought it, he had it for a week, and said he wouldn't have sold it if it was knocking. I can only assume the previous owner did the engine quote. Anyway, I'm not really that kind of person to start battles unless it was on the drive back after buying it, but after a month it's a bit of a shot in the dark.

    New engine ordered, my engine coming out on Monday and sending away, should have it back on the road by 1st week of October with any luck. If I've got my numbers right then I should be able to get it done for £1620 for everything including fitting. That takes the total of my car up to £4270, which I've seen plenty 90k mile TFSi's go for this year (seen some go for £6k with 75k on the clock), but I do plan on keeping it for a few years, so hopefully having a new engine will be a bonus for resale time. I know I'll not get my money back but this will be the newest engine'd car I'll have owned :)

    Once it's run in and has a few thousand miles on I'll get it mapped, hopefully there are some discounts in January.
     
  36. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Just got three new clients today, two of which are paying 6 months up front - just in time for a dividend payment so less tax to pay instead of taking it as a wage.

    Every cloud....
     
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  37. Craig Cull

    Craig Cull Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    If the piston moves down when pressed down, it's failed in the same way as the one I've just rebuilt. It's spun a shell I'd say. Full bottom end rebuild or just swap out the bottom end completely, get the head re skimmed and build it back up. Assuming there's no top end damage like.
    Speak to olly with the blue DTM, he's got a complete AXX bottom end forsale.
     
  38. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Yeah mate sounds like it. I've got a feeling there is top end damage tho. I've ordered a fully reconned bgb engine for the same price as what most people are flogging second hand engines on ebay. Thanks for the offer. As mentioned I've just had some fortunate news with some money heading my way so I'm relieved a bit.

    Forgot to say I have some silicone turbo hoses coming from the USA which I ordered 10 days ago before it went pop :)
     
  39. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    So, a new week and I think I've just about got over the fact this ****** car is gonna cost a lot.....bought a few things, new PCV setup, new thermostat, new clutch switch (thanks to the forum for giving me the answer to weird rev in between gear changes)and I finally have my magnetic sump plug (which took 3 weeks to turn up). My intake hose should be here this week, too. I'll put this here for reference in case it happens to anyone else.

    I've budgeted £1800 to get it all done:
    • Engine £1264 enginesfirstltd.co.uk totally reconditioned, new chain and tensioner (plus £60 to send my engine away)
    • Labour for engine £300 maximum from my mechanic mate, an independent said to expect £4-500 inc all fluids.
    • Thermostat £30
    • PCV £45
    • Oil and filter £30 (ECP had a deal on)
    • Coolant £35

    Gonna wait to see what the recon engine looks like but I assume it will need cambelt (£130), waterpump (£not sure yet) and injector seals (£80 I think) as per Craig Cull's suggestion, which will easily take it up to or just over £1800 for the full thing. I'm also getting the ARB bushes replaced as they looked worn. I've asked him to look at anything else rubbery to replace them. I've come to terms with it all (just) and think it's worth making it really good and fit for another 9 years.

    If I'd paid over 4k for the car I wouldn't be doing this, as others that I was looking at were coming up at the 4k mark. This replacement engine takes the full cost for me up to £4300 or so inc purchase price....if I have fallen out of love with it then I might sell it and I'd want at least £6k for it considering it would have a new engine as some low miler 70k cars were going for 5.5k. Whether anyone would pay it I don't know and I think with my run of bad luck I'd guess that it's 'better the devil you know' and all that.
     
  40. Molnboman

    Molnboman Registered User

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    Good Luck Mucker!...One thing if you are replacing the cambelt anyway....please do the waterpump while you are it!....It's a no brainer Mate. If you have a hundred quid to spare....buy the RS4 rear anti roll bar. That is money well worth spending.....don't need to bother with the front arb only the back. Keeping my fingers crossed for you this time.

    BR
    A
     
  41. JudderMan

    JudderMan Registered User

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    Yup waterpump and cambelt are getting done :)

    RS4 ARB might have to wait.....or should it? LOL. Will see if I can source one while it's still at the garage. Engine is out and being collected tomorrow.
     
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  42. I'm Just Rob.

    I'm Just Rob. Moderating or something, Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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  43. I'm Just Rob.

    I'm Just Rob. Moderating or something, Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Sorry mouse went a bit mad then on my last reply.
    Anway, glad you managed to get it sorted out , allways nice to see someone go the whole distance and fix the car instaed of just writing it off.
    I think i paid a shade to much for my late 2006/2007 A4 avant at £12k judging by the prices you have just posted........

    never mind, a cars worth as much as somebody want to pay for it i supose...

    rob
     

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