Clutch Suggestions.

AdzA3AGU

Registered User
Hey Guys, So last night my clutch decided it had had enough and I'm fairly sure replacing with OEM is not going to help me that much.

Anybody got any suggestions for a good replacement? gotta deal with 280Bhp and 280 ib ft.

Solid mass conversion preferred.
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Solid mass make 02M's chatter like f00k... OE clutch will handle the power you are asking of it but clutch longevity is subjective at best

Driven 'normally' an OE clutch is fine for your power level... it will handle the power and torque and spirited driving but problems can arise if you are a particularly aggressive driver... launching or changing gears 'because' race driver in particular.. this will kill a std clutch fairly quickly...

Aftermarket clutch kits seem hit and miss... there are a few out there that are ok but normally comes at a price... SMF kits make the gearbox chatter on idle and generally require a trip to the gym to prepare your leg for the stiffer cover plate...

Personally... I use a std DMF/cover plate and a Sachs 4 puck paddle plate... this works very well indeed...

Obviously if you are still a hard driver nothing is going to last as long as an OE setup driven with a little sympathy but it will last longer than an OE and most aftermarket 'upgrade' setups if you are a bit of a hooligan

<tuffty/>
 

Tj 0785

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
I got a solid mass clucth and as tuffty said it's chatters like mad It makes car sound like a bag of spanners when in neutral
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Does the standard DMF/cover plate have to be Sachs in order to work with the Sachs 4 puck paddle plate?
nope... I just used an LuK clutch from GSF

<tuffty/>
 

AdzA3AGU

Registered User
I had a SMF in my 5 speed and noticed no noise. and my mates O2M with SMF barely makes a sound. you dont notice it making much noise until you press the pedal down and notice it get quieter.

Not a Fan of Paddle clutch's hows the Sachs for drivability? I'm Stuck in traffic a few days a week and cant be dealing with Revving it up high to let the pucks catch smoothly.

CG Motorsports 'Stage 2' Seems like a decent option atm.

But SMF is not required, just preferred as it felt great on my AGU
 

S3 Hilife

It's an addiction
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
Not a Fan of Paddle clutch's hows the Sachs for drivability? I'm Stuck in traffic a few days a week and cant be dealing with Revving it up high to let the pucks catch smoothly.

I use a sachs 4 puk with LUK dmf in my daily, it really isn't bad at all even in traffic, just takes a bit of time to get used to it initially over OEM setup. Even the mrs drives it daily without any problems




Steve
 

AdzA3AGU

Registered User
Fair enough.

I'll look into it guys.

Thanks again
 

s3mad_dude

Noggies ruuuule!
If you want the car to be exactly how it was before, stick with OE parts. I'm 265bhp (stage 1) and it's perfect. I'm not a holigan either, but I enjoy a spirited drive every now and again (who doesn't!) but I've heard about the SMF conversions and wasn't prepared to sacrifice comfort, quality and quietness. If you go down the OE route though, be prepared to pay a premium though as the parts aren't cheap and the DMF can be a bit of a pig to get hold of.
 

AdzA3AGU

Registered User
DMF is making zero noise or fuss. if its not coming off for a solid. its not coming off.
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???


This arrived today from Bill! Getting fitted next weekend along with all new standard parts can't wait!
 

AdzA3AGU

Registered User
Sachs seems to be the Go To TBH the organic is rated to 350ib and suits my traffic needs better so i think thats where im going
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
To be honest I've gone through two Sachs organic clutches in 20k miles but in that time I was using the car as a daily through Oxfords terrible rush hour traffic (stop start for 45 mins Twice a day) and at the weekends I was launching almost everytime I drove it! I fancy something different this time as I'm only going to be doing 2-3k miles a year if that!
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
This clutch feels great! All new standard parts supplied and fitted at Audi plus got them to chuck the paddle plate in! night and day difference!
the uprated Organic Sachs always felt a bit heavy and tiresome, although Ive only just realised it now that I'm back on the standard pressure plate. so far I can't recommend this set up highly enough!
 

Zman6000

Registered User
This clutch feels great! All new standard parts supplied and fitted at Audi plus got them to chuck the paddle plate in! night and day difference!
the uprated Organic Sachs always felt a bit heavy and tiresome, although Ive only just realised it now that I'm back on the standard pressure plate. so far I can't recommend this set up highly enough!
How much did you pay for everything including fitting buddy?
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
Not a lot, Ha! My sister works for Audi and called in a few favours...
Paddle plate was £300 from Badger 5
Cambelt kit, Waterpump, Brake fluid and coolant change plus Clutch Kit minus the clutch plate was £210
then £170 labour plus a crate of beer to keep them sweet!

Cant grumble at that!
 

Zman6000

Registered User
Not a lot, Ha! My sister works for Audi and called in a few favours...
Paddle plate was £300 from Badger 5
Cambelt kit, Waterpump, Brake fluid and coolant change plus Clutch Kit minus the clutch plate was £210
then £170 labour plus a crate of beer to keep them sweet!

Cant grumble at that!
Sweet well I'm in the trade clutch kit and flywheel are £320 all in but I'll tell them to minus the plate and order that one from badger 5 And fit them all myself and prob get a bad back lol
 

Zman6000

Registered User
Not a lot, Ha! My sister works for Audi and called in a few favours...
Paddle plate was £300 from Badger 5
Cambelt kit, Waterpump, Brake fluid and coolant change plus Clutch Kit minus the clutch plate was £210
then £170 labour plus a crate of beer to keep them sweet!

Cant grumble at that!
That was a good price though buddy :)
 

vanilla_ice

Registered User
This clutch feels great! All new standard parts supplied and fitted at Audi plus got them to chuck the paddle plate in! night and day difference!
the uprated Organic Sachs always felt a bit heavy and tiresome, although Ive only just realised it now that I'm back on the standard pressure plate. so far I can't recommend this set up highly enough!

Did you have the Sachs performance clutch disc and performance cover plate before fitting the paddle?

Assuming they fitted, how do you think the performance disc (not paddle) and standard cover would 'feel'/perform/last?

Any reasons not to go with the Sachs paddle and standard LUK DMF and cover?
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
Hello mate I've had the uprated sachs performance kit fitted twice (it was called sachs Organic by the company who fitted them) but they haven't lasted me at all. Im guessing its the way I drive and traffic that kills them. I now have the standard cover plate that audi supply, I'm not sure if its LUK or Sachs? along with the paddle disc and a std DMF and it feels great! no reasons at all not to go with it.
I think the part that makes the biggest difference as to how the clutch feels is the uprated cover plate in the organic kit, its a fair bit heavier to use than std.
 

vanilla_ice

Registered User
Thanks for that. Generally seems to be a well received setup.

Going by your sig we are at a comparable power levels.

Just out of interest, why didn't you stick with a standard clutch setup?
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
No worries pal to be honest I've gone for this set up as I'm very tempted to go hybrid turbo. I did actually save up to do it last year was all set had a shopping list and everything! but with the money just begging to be spent I made a rash desision and bought another watch lol!
 

s3 Hoggy

Whats going on???
Ha! That was quite good for you Tim!
 
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AdzA3AGU

Registered User
Ended up with the CG Motorsport stage 2 kev tec clutch had to be run in for 500 milebut its pretty decent too much heavy use can lead to slip though ive been told but is yet to happen to me!
 

IPG

Registered User
Bump!

Am going to do a clutch replacement and would like some anecdotal experience on the 4 puk paddle plate suggested above. How is it for a daily? Is it very on/off or quite driveable?

What would it be like compared to a 6 paddle? Thanks!
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Perfectly driveable as a daily...

Can't really compare it to a '6 paddle' as thats subject to the rest of the clutch system...

LuK/OE DMF + Sachs 4 puck + LuK/OE pressure plate works fine as a package... the Sachs plate is not sprung due to being used on a DMF...

What 6 puck do you have in mind? sprung? unsprung? it will make a difference to feel but never used this setup myself...

All 6 puck clutches I have experienced are juddery but thats with stiffer pressure plates and SMF setups so its anyones guess...

6 puck in theory would be more bitey I would imagine... and arguably less clamping force available as more surface area to spread the clamping pressure out so probably less suited to the OE pressure plate...

<tuffty/>
 
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IPG

Registered User
So in theory I can source a new DMF and pressure plate. Replace the full face friction plate from the kit with the 4 puk?

Not sure what 6 puk I would go for but if you say the 4 puck being good for a daily + better clamping force vs 6 puck. Then I'd be happy to go with that.
 

IPG

Registered User
For the DMF i'm finding 032 or 045 - LUK brand.... what's the diff?

and can i re-use the pressure plate or is it best to get new everything? :)
 
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
For the DMF i'm finding 032 or 045 - LUK brand....

Not actually sure tbh as I bought mine based on chassis number... never seen them side by side but the engine and gearboxes are all the same so other than a 'design' difference there shouldn't be any reason for one over the other that I can think of...

what's the diff?

its a whirly thing in the gearbox ;)

and can i re-use the pressure plate or is it best to get new everything? :)

You could argue that the OE clutch doesn't really wear out the metal surfaces so chances are it could go again but given how much effort it is to change is it something you want to be doing shortly after getting it all back together should you discover the part is not as good as you though?

<tuffty/>
 
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Rowanh

Registered User
Im also contemplating a clutch change, i bought my S3 as a daily around 6-8 months ago, the previous owner had paid an arm and a leg to have a helix smf and uprated clutch plate & pressure plate etc, the clutch is in perfect condition, its only seen around 10-15k miles, i don't think there is any risk of it slipping on launch or wearing out anytime soon, but it does sound like a bag of nails being put through a washing machine on idle, the clutch is very heavy, so traffic can be a pain, luckily my drive to work is one 15 mile A road thats always clear at the times i drive. just have to put up with people thinking my car is ****** when ever i dont have my foot on the clutch.
my mind is split whether to just leave it as it is and just put up with it, enjoy the benefit of a faster revving engine that can in theory can take more abuse that an OE setup, + no cost at all.
or try and find a more daily friendly set up that will be easier on the ears and the left leg, but be able to take stage 2+ with flat shift and launch control and not make me disappointed compared to how it is currently.

has anyone here gone from a smf back to a dmf? any noticeable difference apart from the sound and stiffness of the pedal?
 
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I have been running a DMF/Sachs 4 puck/std cover for a fair few years and some 30k miles... 9k on my current level of power and the rest on my previous setup...

However like most things modified or driven 'with spirit' clutch wear and longevity is subjective at best... no clutch system designed to put up with launching and track style abuse will be that road friendly and SMF's just highlight manufacturing 'tolerances' in the 6 speed boxes quite badly...

The setup I use handles the power I have and is 'leg' and 'traffic' friendly... but like anything if its abused its longevity will suffer... really does depend what you want from it at the end of the day

<tuffty/>
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Will the DMF not hold up due to increased power???

Considering the 20v in normally aspirated form puts out around 125hp and I'm getting nearly 570hp from one you have to manage your expectations realistically...

Anything thats putting out best part of 300hp per ltr is inherently going to stress components standard or upgraded... for example, a built engine is not bullet proof at the end of the day but will hold together longer than a non built engine at these power levels and is still subject to use...

The std DMF is fairly hardy but will end up being worn out sooner than it would under less power and use... the cerametallic plate will wear the flywheel and cover plate surfaces more quickly and the increased torque will wear out the DMF more quickly... but... as is always the case its a compromise for vehicle use...

If you were building something that was going to be more or less used on the track exclusively but road legal for driving there and back you would use a setup more suited to that application... for a car thats used mainly on the road for an occasional bit of traffic light grand prix and the odd track day then the DMF/Sachs combo is probaly more suited...

The DMF/Sachs combo wouldn't last as long if you were a trackdayist or dragist compared to a more 'aggressive' solution but then the aggressive solution would be less drivable on the road...

Its a balancing act at the end of the day... you can't realistically answer 'Will the DMF not hold up due to increased power' as there is no real answer... I don't even know how long mine will go on for but based on the previous one I replaced when I built the stroker I would expect the plate to last 20-30k based on how I drive... not sure on the DMF as I changed my old one to one that had done 1k miles as a precaution when I had the gear change incident...

Will see how well its fared when I do a gearbox build later in the year

<tuffty/>
 

IPG

Registered User
Nice and thorough answer. Thanks @<tuffty/> for that.

Turns out one of the AUS contingency is gunna be able to show me his SMF setup. See what that's like and I'll report back :)
 
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