Cast arms

Cheeks

Registered User
Hey all,

Long story short, I need some front control arms for my a3.

A breaker has a pair of a3 ones or the cast S3 ones! £5 between the both of them.

From what I know I won’t be able to hook up my drop links with the cast arms as they hook up to the strut on an s3.

What’s my options for an a3?
It’s a 1.9 tdi 130

Tia


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
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Sorry mate, not after the arms themselves, getting them off a breaker, just wondering what I can do about drop links on the a3 if I get cast ones as they don’t attach the same apparently!


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No they won't... you will need to get the ones designed for your car

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Erikn89nl

Registered User
Sorry mate, not after the arms themselves, getting them off a breaker, just wondering what I can do about drop links on the a3 if I get cast ones as they don’t attach the same apparently!
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If you're looking to upgrade the handling, you would probably be best off fitting the entire front suspension off an S3/TT/LCR, because they have improved handling due to the suspension geometry. This is something no bush can ever correct on the standard FWD suspension...
 

Cheeks

Registered User
If you're looking to upgrade the handling, you would probably be best off fitting the entire front suspension off an S3/TT/LCR, because they have improved handling due to the suspension geometry. This is something no bush can ever correct on the standard FWD suspension...

So arms, hubs, roll bar, shocks?


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Cheeks

Registered User
Yep. Subframe doesnt need changing. Other possible option is to also use the 'quicker' steering rack from those cars.

Yeah I was looking into that, looks like the “quick racks” aren’t a straight fit though, apparently the piping is different?


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Cheeks

Registered User
I might do that then! I never managed to set up the front end on my last a3 how I wanted it either, polybushed and coilovers and it wasn’t right still! This may be the way, front coilovers for an S3 rear a3 coilovers, cast arms and hubs.

If I change the hubs I’ll have to go to S3 breaks won’t I?


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Erikn89nl

Registered User
If I change the hubs I’ll have to go to S3 breaks won’t I?
I'll assume you meant 'brakes'... in which case yes, they need changing. However, the S3 brakes aren't widely known for their competence and are often upgraded to LCR Brembo's or other larger, more expensive options. S3 rear brakes wouldn't hurt though, to replace the A3 rears.

However, if you're changing all this, wouldn't it be easier to buy an S3?
 

Cheeks

Registered User
I'll assume you meant 'brakes'... in which case yes, they need changing. However, the S3 brakes aren't widely known for their competence and are often upgraded to LCR Brembo's or other larger, more expensive options. S3 rear brakes wouldn't hurt though, to replace the A3 rears.

However, if you're changing all this, wouldn't it be easier to buy an S3?

Oops yeah! At work and typing quick haha.

And it’s starting to look that way!
I’ll price this all up and decide.

Good news is there’s a fair few breakers near and I know a mechanic so that cuts costs by a lot.


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Cheeks

Registered User
Turns out I can get what I need pretty cheap, does anyone have any experience fitting the quick rack?

If so, care to spare a little wisdom on how the power steering pipe situation will work?


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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Power steering fittings are identical. No need to change any of those.

Depending on model you will either have a 280 x 22 front disc or a 288 x 25. If it's got 288s they will fit the s3 hubs
 

Cheeks

Registered User
Power steering fittings are identical. No need to change any of those.

Depending on model you will either have a 280 x 22 front disc or a 288 x 25. If it's got 288s they will fit the s3 hubs

ahhh great!

Plan is it get the full front end mate so will be going S3 anyway.

Shocks/springs
Brakes
Hubs
Arms
Rack
Arb

Can you see any problems I might hit with that setup?


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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
What year is your car? If it has esp you may have issues with it cutting in on long sweeping bends unless turned off.
 

Cheeks

Registered User

Normally yes, but I’ve been offered all the parts for £80... and I know a mechanic who normally does all my work for me and he doesn’t charge a lot.


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Cheeks

Registered User
Slightly related to the whole suspension thing... would A3/mk4 golf lowering springs fit on standard S3 shocks?


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Cheeks

Registered User
Update*

I’ve almost got everything I need now!
However I picked up a neuspeed ARB for a fwd golf/A3. One of the ones that loops over the driveshaft so it doesnt rub when lowered. Got it for £10 couldn’t not buy it.

...however, because I’m now going to be using s3 shocks and droplinks, they’re attaching to the shock instead, will this work or should I drill and thread the cast arm, it does have a nub of metal sticking out where the droplinks would go.

Thanks,
Dan


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snowy

Registered User
The arb-to-shock setup gives better roll dampening; basically means the arb is dampened
vs the arb-to-wishbone setup where roll energy directed into wheel via wishbone undampened

imho only need to use arb-to-wishbone if series rules demand it in motorsport, and if that scenario there are tubular wishbones available with handy attachment point already provided
 

RobinJI

Registered User
Sorry but I don't think that's quite right. The damping won't be effected by where the ARB is mounted. With both set-ups there is no free movement between the damper and the ARB, if one moves, so does the other, so the effect of the damper can't vary. The effective sprung rate of the roll bar will change, but the relationship with the damper wont. Both setups are subjected to the same damping compromises that an ARB introduces in any normal 1-damper-per-wheel set-up. Functionally, the 2 bars will act exactly the same if they have the same effective rate.

As for which bar to use, It's worth considering what you're after from the roll bar? is the neuspeed bar an increased stiffness? If it is then relative to the standard bar it'll push the car's balance towards understeer unless a stiffer rear bar is also fitted. I don't know enough about the specific A3/S3 parts to know if a stock S3 bar will be stiffer or softer than a standard A3 bar, but again, if it's stiffer you're looking at more understeer unless you match it with a stiffer rear bar too.

In terms of fitment, if you go with a bar that loops over the driveshaft and you've fitted S3 hubs along with the shocks and arms, then the wishbone's going to be lower because of the lower ball joint position, so to clear the shaft the drop links will have to be longer. I guess there's nothing stopping you using the neuspeed one, but the S3 set-up seems like a more elegant solution.
 
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Cheeks

Registered User
Sorry but that's not quite right. The damping won't be effected by where the ARB is mounted. With both set-ups there is no free movement between the damper and the ARB, if one moves, so does the other. The effective sprung rate of the roll bar will vary, but their relationship to the damper wont. So both setups are subjected to the same damping compromises that an ARB introduces in any 2 shock set-up. Functionally, the 2 bars will act exactly the same if they have the same effective rate.

As for which bar to use, It's worth considering what you're after from the roll bar? is the neuspeed bar an increased stiffness? If it is then relative to the standard bar it'll push the car's balance towards understeer unless a stiffer rear bar is also fitted. Sadly I don't know enough about the specific A3/S3 parts to know if a stock S3 bar will be stiffer or softer than a standard A3 bar, but again, if it's stiffer you're looking at more understeer unless you match it with a stiffer rear bar too.

In terms of fitment, if you go with a bar that loops over the driveshaft and you've fitted S3 hubs along with the shocks and arms, then the wishbone's going to be further down because of the lower ball joint position, so to clear the shaft the drop links will have to be longer. I guess there's nothing stopping you using the neuspeed one, but the S3 set-up seems like a more elegant solution.

Thanks for that man, really informative, to be honest I never thought of a rear bar! Not sure if it’s possible to fit them on an a3 as it doesn’t have one as standard?

The neuspeed bar is a 25mm which I’m going to mount on polybushes so it should be a fair bit stiffer to get rid of that standard boat-like body roll!!

Drop link wise, I’m going to drill the nubs on the cast arms as I’ve seen a tutorial in another thread!
I’ll then pair that bar up with some adjustable links to square of any issues with the distance like you mentioned.

In go the s3 dampers with some 40mm springs, I think it should be quite comfortable but with a bit more snappiness round corners with a quickrack

I’ve bought new bushes for the arms but the front ones don’t fit!? They’re too big, has anyone got the p/n for the smaller ones?

Also will a3 track rods/ends fit the quickrack/s3 hub setup? Mine are almost brand new so could save a few pennies there.

Dan


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Cheeks

Registered User
While this might work, I reckon you're better off selling the Neuspeed ARB for a nice profit and using that money to buy something that's actually made to fit your new setup...

It’s definitely the right thing to do, couldn’t pass up a £300 arb for £10 though haha, so it’s slightly changed the direction of the build if I sell it I’ll probably make enough to buy another cheaper one that’s right for the setup but for the hassle of selling it etc I’d rather return the drop links and get A3 adjustables for a similar price and drill the arm.


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snowy

Registered User
Sorry but I don't think that's quite right. The damping won't be effected by where the ARB is mounted. With both set-ups there is no free movement between the damper and the ARB, if one moves, so does the other, so the effect of the damper can't vary. The effective sprung rate of the roll bar will change, but the relationship with the damper wont. Both setups are subjected to the same damping compromises that an ARB introduces in any normal 1-damper-per-wheel set-up. Functionally, the 2 bars will act exactly the same if they have the same effective rate.

Where you attach a arb can make a huge difference
as a rule of thumb: arb's attached to wishbones promote bump steer and reduce free articulation of the wishbone arm
an arb directly connected to a shock unit is levering directly against a dampening device; yes it all has to move together but gives more effectient dampening of the engery recieved through the arb
The usual design comprise for attaching an arb is by connecting to the hub - better bump steer characteristics - freer wishbone movement - no shock interference; fia happy
 

Cheeks

Registered User
So!

Update/question, I also promise I’ll get some pictures of this all for people if they want so do something similar, ill also list out all bits and bobs I needed!

Question relates the to track rods! From what I understood I could just use my A3’s bits and turn the track rod ends upside down at the spindle?
But I’ve found out that the TT had 2 suspension options sport with 18” alloys/non-sport? And the sport apparently has 16mm rack ends instead of 14mm?

Massively confused now.


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Cheeks

Registered User
So!

Update/question, I also promise I’ll get some pictures of this all for people if they want so do something similar, ill also list out all bits and bobs I needed!

Question relates the to track rods! From what I understood I could just use my A3’s bits and turn the track rod ends upside down at the spindle?
But I’ve found out that the TT had 2 suspension options sport with 18” alloys/non-sport? And the sport apparently has 16mm rack ends instead of 14mm?

Massively confused now.


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Just to add, I’ve checked the rack ends on the quickrack I have and it is 16mm so what’s the differences? Because I also got the shocks off that car


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SteVR

Registered User
I did tt hubs (fwd nut type) arb and cupra r wishbones. Fitted new track rod ends, from memory you switch sides and turn them upside down.
One thing you have to watch is the brake lines rubbing the drop links. I have HEL braided ones ready to fit to help with this.
 

Cheeks

Registered User
I did tt hubs (fwd nut type) arb and cupra r wishbones. Fitted new track rod ends, from memory you switch sides and turn them upside down.
One thing you have to watch is the brake lines rubbing the drop links. I have HEL braided ones ready to fit to help with this.

I’m going to have to buy new rods/ends now the ones on the a3 won’t fit as the thread is 14mm instead of the 16mm quickrack ones.

TT spindles are sorted now, new hubs and bearings with the multipoint nut to match my driveshaft

Almost there!


Here’s what the setup is like now

TT shocks with 40mm lowering springs
TT Spindles with new bearings and hubs
Cast arms with droplink drill and tap
TT/S3 subframe with brace
Neuspeed 25mm ARB with superpro polybushes.
Lemforder droplinks (not bothering with adjustables, not going crazy low and the ARB loops over the DS)
Quickrack with a Powerflex Black polybush
New bushes in the arms (no void standard bushes and the smaller 30mm front, I was super lucky and I’ve got a pre recall setup so no need for defcon adapter sleeves! and ball joints.)
Red powerflex diesel polybush on dogbone
40mm rear lowering springs
Stock A3 dampers

I will be adding a rear ARB at some point to tighten it all up.

Pics soon!



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SteVR

Registered User
Nice, I added the defcon sleeves with corrado Vr6 solid bushes and solid r32 rear bushes. Good upgrade.
 

Cheeks

Registered User
Nice, I added the defcon sleeves with corrado Vr6 solid bushes and solid r32 rear bushes. Good upgrade.

I’m so excited to get it all fitted up, the track rod situation caught me off guard though! Had no idea they made a thicker one!




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Cheeks

Registered User
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There she is!! Ready to fit.
Some parts are a tatty, but I’ve cleaned up mounting points etc.

Costs!
Front end - £80!
- TT225 subframe
- TT Bushes
- Quickrack
- cast arms (pre recall)
- hubs
- shocks

Nuespeed ARB 25 mm - £10!
Super pro ARB Bushes - £22
Powerflex Black steering rack bush £15
Powerflex red dogbone bush £28~

New front bearings £50
Arm bushes £50
Track rods and ends £50~
Lowering springs £30

So all in all, super cheap!

I’ll update once on the car...


If anyone else is thinking about doing this setup, let me know if you need any part numbers.

Dan





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