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Cast arms

Cheeks Oct 16, 2017

  1. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Hey all,

    Long story short, I need some front control arms for my a3.

    A breaker has a pair of a3 ones or the cast S3 ones! £5 between the both of them.

    From what I know I won’t be able to hook up my drop links with the cast arms as they hook up to the strut on an s3.

    What’s my options for an a3?
    It’s a 1.9 tdi 130

    Tia


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  3. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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  4. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Sorry mate, not after the arms themselves, getting them off a breaker, just wondering what I can do about drop links on the a3 if I get cast ones as they don’t attach the same apparently!


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  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    No they won't... you will need to get the ones designed for your car

    <tuffty/>
     
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  6. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Fair enough, they’re getting polybushed anyway!

    Thanks


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  7. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    If you're looking to upgrade the handling, you would probably be best off fitting the entire front suspension off an S3/TT/LCR, because they have improved handling due to the suspension geometry. This is something no bush can ever correct on the standard FWD suspension...
     
  8. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    So arms, hubs, roll bar, shocks?


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  9. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Subframe doesnt need changing. Other possible option is to also use the 'quicker' steering rack from those cars.
     
  10. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Yeah I was looking into that, looks like the “quick racks” aren’t a straight fit though, apparently the piping is different?


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  11. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    I think @Prawn said he carefully bent one of the pipes so it cleared the gearbox, but I'm not sure on the specifics.

    Also I have no idea about the 1.9 TDI engine bay, so stuff may be different there too.
     
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  13. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    I might do that then! I never managed to set up the front end on my last a3 how I wanted it either, polybushed and coilovers and it wasn’t right still! This may be the way, front coilovers for an S3 rear a3 coilovers, cast arms and hubs.

    If I change the hubs I’ll have to go to S3 breaks won’t I?


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  14. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    I'll assume you meant 'brakes'... in which case yes, they need changing. However, the S3 brakes aren't widely known for their competence and are often upgraded to LCR Brembo's or other larger, more expensive options. S3 rear brakes wouldn't hurt though, to replace the A3 rears.

    However, if you're changing all this, wouldn't it be easier to buy an S3?
     
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  15. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Oops yeah! At work and typing quick haha.

    And it’s starting to look that way!
    I’ll price this all up and decide.

    Good news is there’s a fair few breakers near and I know a mechanic so that cuts costs by a lot.


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  16. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Turns out I can get what I need pretty cheap, does anyone have any experience fitting the quick rack?

    If so, care to spare a little wisdom on how the power steering pipe situation will work?


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  17. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    @Prawn handled mine, he should be able to tell you... If you can catch him :sweatsmile:
     
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  18. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    I shall wait patiently!


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  19. Dr. mechanic

    Dr. mechanic Member

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    how about this ?


    Screen Shot 2017-10-24 at 07.25.38.png Screen Shot 2017-10-24 at 07.25.33.png
     
  20. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Power steering fittings are identical. No need to change any of those.

    Depending on model you will either have a 280 x 22 front disc or a 288 x 25. If it's got 288s they will fit the s3 hubs
     
  21. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    ahhh great!

    Plan is it get the full front end mate so will be going S3 anyway.

    Shocks/springs
    Brakes
    Hubs
    Arms
    Rack
    Arb

    Can you see any problems I might hit with that setup?


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  22. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    What year is your car? If it has esp you may have issues with it cutting in on long sweeping bends unless turned off.
     
  23. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    2003 mate, there is an ESP button if that helps


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  24. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Bronze Supporter Audi S3

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  25. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Normally yes, but I’ve been offered all the parts for £80... and I know a mechanic who normally does all my work for me and he doesn’t charge a lot.


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  26. Dr. mechanic

    Dr. mechanic Member

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  27. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Slightly related to the whole suspension thing... would A3/mk4 golf lowering springs fit on standard S3 shocks?


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  28. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Update*

    I’ve almost got everything I need now!
    However I picked up a neuspeed ARB for a fwd golf/A3. One of the ones that loops over the driveshaft so it doesnt rub when lowered. Got it for £10 couldn’t not buy it.

    ...however, because I’m now going to be using s3 shocks and droplinks, they’re attaching to the shock instead, will this work or should I drill and thread the cast arm, it does have a nub of metal sticking out where the droplinks would go.

    Thanks,
    Dan


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  29. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    While this might work, I reckon you're better off selling the Neuspeed ARB for a nice profit and using that money to buy something that's actually made to fit your new setup...
     
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  30. snowy

    snowy Active Member

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    The arb-to-shock setup gives better roll dampening; basically means the arb is dampened
    vs the arb-to-wishbone setup where roll energy directed into wheel via wishbone undampened

    imho only need to use arb-to-wishbone if series rules demand it in motorsport, and if that scenario there are tubular wishbones available with handy attachment point already provided
     
  31. RobinJI

    RobinJI Active Member

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    Sorry but I don't think that's quite right. The damping won't be effected by where the ARB is mounted. With both set-ups there is no free movement between the damper and the ARB, if one moves, so does the other, so the effect of the damper can't vary. The effective sprung rate of the roll bar will change, but the relationship with the damper wont. Both setups are subjected to the same damping compromises that an ARB introduces in any normal 1-damper-per-wheel set-up. Functionally, the 2 bars will act exactly the same if they have the same effective rate.

    As for which bar to use, It's worth considering what you're after from the roll bar? is the neuspeed bar an increased stiffness? If it is then relative to the standard bar it'll push the car's balance towards understeer unless a stiffer rear bar is also fitted. I don't know enough about the specific A3/S3 parts to know if a stock S3 bar will be stiffer or softer than a standard A3 bar, but again, if it's stiffer you're looking at more understeer unless you match it with a stiffer rear bar too.

    In terms of fitment, if you go with a bar that loops over the driveshaft and you've fitted S3 hubs along with the shocks and arms, then the wishbone's going to be lower because of the lower ball joint position, so to clear the shaft the drop links will have to be longer. I guess there's nothing stopping you using the neuspeed one, but the S3 set-up seems like a more elegant solution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  32. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Thanks for that man, really informative, to be honest I never thought of a rear bar! Not sure if it’s possible to fit them on an a3 as it doesn’t have one as standard?

    The neuspeed bar is a 25mm which I’m going to mount on polybushes so it should be a fair bit stiffer to get rid of that standard boat-like body roll!!

    Drop link wise, I’m going to drill the nubs on the cast arms as I’ve seen a tutorial in another thread!
    I’ll then pair that bar up with some adjustable links to square of any issues with the distance like you mentioned.

    In go the s3 dampers with some 40mm springs, I think it should be quite comfortable but with a bit more snappiness round corners with a quickrack

    I’ve bought new bushes for the arms but the front ones don’t fit!? They’re too big, has anyone got the p/n for the smaller ones?

    Also will a3 track rods/ends fit the quickrack/s3 hub setup? Mine are almost brand new so could save a few pennies there.

    Dan


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  34. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    It’s definitely the right thing to do, couldn’t pass up a £300 arb for £10 though haha, so it’s slightly changed the direction of the build if I sell it I’ll probably make enough to buy another cheaper one that’s right for the setup but for the hassle of selling it etc I’d rather return the drop links and get A3 adjustables for a similar price and drill the arm.


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  35. snowy

    snowy Active Member

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    Where you attach a arb can make a huge difference
    as a rule of thumb: arb's attached to wishbones promote bump steer and reduce free articulation of the wishbone arm
    an arb directly connected to a shock unit is levering directly against a dampening device; yes it all has to move together but gives more effectient dampening of the engery recieved through the arb
    The usual design comprise for attaching an arb is by connecting to the hub - better bump steer characteristics - freer wishbone movement - no shock interference; fia happy
     
  36. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    So!

    Update/question, I also promise I’ll get some pictures of this all for people if they want so do something similar, ill also list out all bits and bobs I needed!

    Question relates the to track rods! From what I understood I could just use my A3’s bits and turn the track rod ends upside down at the spindle?
    But I’ve found out that the TT had 2 suspension options sport with 18” alloys/non-sport? And the sport apparently has 16mm rack ends instead of 14mm?

    Massively confused now.


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  37. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Just to add, I’ve checked the rack ends on the quickrack I have and it is 16mm so what’s the differences? Because I also got the shocks off that car


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  38. SteVR

    SteVR Member

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    I did tt hubs (fwd nut type) arb and cupra r wishbones. Fitted new track rod ends, from memory you switch sides and turn them upside down.
    One thing you have to watch is the brake lines rubbing the drop links. I have HEL braided ones ready to fit to help with this.
     
  39. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    I’m going to have to buy new rods/ends now the ones on the a3 won’t fit as the thread is 14mm instead of the 16mm quickrack ones.

    TT spindles are sorted now, new hubs and bearings with the multipoint nut to match my driveshaft

    Almost there!


    Here’s what the setup is like now

    TT shocks with 40mm lowering springs
    TT Spindles with new bearings and hubs
    Cast arms with droplink drill and tap
    TT/S3 subframe with brace
    Neuspeed 25mm ARB with superpro polybushes.
    Lemforder droplinks (not bothering with adjustables, not going crazy low and the ARB loops over the DS)
    Quickrack with a Powerflex Black polybush
    New bushes in the arms (no void standard bushes and the smaller 30mm front, I was super lucky and I’ve got a pre recall setup so no need for defcon adapter sleeves! and ball joints.)
    Red powerflex diesel polybush on dogbone
    40mm rear lowering springs
    Stock A3 dampers

    I will be adding a rear ARB at some point to tighten it all up.

    Pics soon!



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  40. SteVR

    SteVR Member

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    Nice, I added the defcon sleeves with corrado Vr6 solid bushes and solid r32 rear bushes. Good upgrade.
     
  41. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    I’m so excited to get it all fitted up, the track rod situation caught me off guard though! Had no idea they made a thicker one!




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  42. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There she is!! Ready to fit.
    Some parts are a tatty, but I’ve cleaned up mounting points etc.

    Costs!
    Front end - £80!
    - TT225 subframe
    - TT Bushes
    - Quickrack
    - cast arms (pre recall)
    - hubs
    - shocks

    Nuespeed ARB 25 mm - £10!
    Super pro ARB Bushes - £22
    Powerflex Black steering rack bush £15
    Powerflex red dogbone bush £28~

    New front bearings £50
    Arm bushes £50
    Track rods and ends £50~
    Lowering springs £30

    So all in all, super cheap!

    I’ll update once on the car...


    If anyone else is thinking about doing this setup, let me know if you need any part numbers.

    Dan





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  43. Cheeks

    Cheeks Member

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    Update

    Almost there!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


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