Car security CCTV at home

[SteveMcB]

@Phil3 ALL Nest products are stand alone. I would add I work for Nest so I know all about them.

@Jonny B You need to see the quality to understand the difference.

@Spinstorm Hi mate, I've been thinking of getting CCTV for a while now and was reading up on the nest IQ stuff the other day. I've got a 5 bed house with a garden room about 30m away at the bottom of the garden.
My main router (the BT one) is upstairs and split to 2ghz and 5ghz and also cat6 hardwired to a second BT router in the living room which I've configured as a switch giving me separate 2ghz and 5ghz networks down stairs.
The garden room has a third old router (I know - way OTT) also configured as a switch and hardwired with solid core armoured cat 6. Surprisingly it all actually works and I've got good coverage over my house and garden.

Cut a long story short I'm thinking of a camera on the garden room with 3 others on the back, side and front of the house, question being will they all still work even though they'll be connected to different wifi networks?

Also, can I do this subscription free and if not, is the subscription per system or would I need one per camera?

Thanks in advance.

PS any bulk buy discounts available?

I have 60kg of Rhodesian ridgeback, he’s always on patrol in the bay windows - nicely visible hehe

That'll work, my spaniel doesn't have quite the same street cred.

 

[Spinstorm]

@Spinstorm Hi mate, I've been thinking of getting CCTV for a while now and was reading up on the nest IQ stuff the other day. I've got a 5 bed house with a garden room about 30m away at the bottom of the garden.
My main router (the BT one) is upstairs and split to 2ghz and 5ghz and also cat6 hardwired to a second BT router in the living room which I've configured as a switch giving me separate 2ghz and 5ghz networks down stairs.
The garden room has a third old router (I know - way OTT) also configured as a switch and hardwired with solid core armoured cat 6. Surprisingly it all actually works and I've got good coverage over my house and garden.

Cut a long story short I'm thinking of a camera on the garden room with 3 others on the back, side and front of the house, question being will they all still work even though they'll be connected to different wifi networks?

Also, can I do this subscription free and if not, is the subscription per system or would I need one per camera?

Thanks in advance.

PS any bulk buy discounts available?



That'll work, my spaniel doesn't have quite the same street cred.

It doesn’t matter what network they are on as long as you have Wi-fi however the cameras do try and use the same settings as each other on set up to make it easier so if you have different SSIDs and passwords that could make it more complicated. I would suggest that you unplug each camera after you add them to your account so they don’t do that try and connect to each other to share Wi-fi settings. Obviously this wouldn’t happen if they were on the same Wi-fi network.

 

[SteveMcB]

It doesn’t matter what network they are on as long as you have Wi-fi however the cameras do try and use the same settings as each other on set up to make it easier so if you have different SSIDs and passwords that could make it more complicated. I would suggest that you unplug each camera after you add them to your account so they don’t do that try and connect to each other to share Wi-fi settings. Obviously this wouldn’t happen if they were on the same Wi-fi network.

Thanks for that - do you know about the subscription side of things, 1 I might sign up for but not 4.

 

[Spinstorm]

Thanks for that - do you know about the subscription side of things, 1 I might sign up for but not 4.

You get 30 days free; if you want 10 days of recording after that then its £8 for the first camera and any additional cameras are £4 each.

It you don’t pay there is no recording but you can still watch live. Personally I pay for all my cameras and feel it is very worth it.

 

[mrbubba]

10 second search on google
http://www.jammer4uk.com/phone-wifi-jammer-c-11.html
But as already alluded to above you can have all kinds of issues with WI-fi without anybody jamming you.

We had a demo of those jammers today, they seem very effective! Can be had on eBay nice and cheap, essential car thief's kit

Maybe some footage of an actual Nest setup would help put this argument to bed?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveMcB]

You get 30 days free; if you want 10 days of recording after that then its £8 for the first camera and any additional cameras are £4 each.

It you don’t pay there is no recording but you can still watch live. Personally I pay for all my cameras and feel it is very worth it.

Cheers, £20 per month for 10 days backup, I'll have to give it some thought.

 

[desertstorm]

Well if I was looking for a 4 camera system I wouldn't be looking at the Nest solution. £20 a month to back up the video. I seriously don't think the quality of the recorded video is going to be any better than what I get with the Hikvision cameras I have.
I have uploaded a video taken just after i installed the system, I was messing around with the frame rate and resolution . In the end I just went with the highest resolution at 2688 x 1520 and something like 16fps. I have a 1TB drive in the DVR and this records about 6 weeks worth of video from 2 cameras. The cost of storage has dropped a lot since I bought my system as a 3Tb Hard drive comes in just over £80
https://www.ebuyer.com/788298-hdd-purple-3tb-3-5-sata-6gbs-64mb-wd30purz

This video was just a parcel man delivering next door.Nothing sinister but I was interested to see what kind of image I could grab from the video.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wpo9xrng4zpshkt/white van man video.mp4?dl=0
Here's a picture I grabbed from a frame on the video.
You can read the plate on the van and the detail isn't that bad on the man. You can get better results by reducing the compression . This 1 minute 20 video is only an 8 meg file.
Hikvision are one of the largest CCTV manufacturers in the world. This system will stand alone on it's own . What happens if Nest goes bump, or decides they want to charge more for the storage. At £20 a month thats nearly £500 in 2 years.
http://www.cctvkits.co.uk/hiwatch-by-hikvision-1-4-camera-4mp-ip-cctv-camera-kit-builder.html
You can put the NVR up the loft or out of the way and run the CAT 5e cables to the box in the loft. I have my box running over a powerline network. So I didn't need to run a cable back to the router. There is a wide selection of cameras so you get the best solution.

 

[SteveMcB]

Thanks @desertstorm, decent images there.
I've got a Nest thermostat which is quite good but agree their CCTV is getting too expensive.
I'm a big fan of hardwired (all of my fixed stuff is plugged in) and could route cat 6 for the 3 house cameras but the garden room is the stumbling block. I can get 240v to a camera site fairly easily but installing another cat6 cable would involve an awful lot of work.

Ideally I need 3 wired cameras connected to a dvr and one wifi camera to feed the switch 'router' in the garden room then back to the main router and dvr.

I'm cursing not laying enough cable at the time, thought 3 x cat 6 (2 needed for my Sky) , 1 coax, 4 core 2.5mm SWA and 3 core 10mm SWA would be more than enough. Oh for an extra cat 6 and twin core (I'd like to link the house and garden room motion detectors as well!).

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Arcam]

Thanks @desertstorm, decent images there.
I've got a Nest thermostat which is quite good but agree their CCTV is getting too expensive.
I'm a big fan of hardwired (all of my fixed stuff is plugged in) and could route cat 6 for the 3 house cameras but the garden room is the stumbling block. I can get 240v to a camera site fairly easily but installing another cat6 cable would involve an awful lot of work.

Ideally I need 3 wired cameras connected to a dvr and one wifi camera to feed the switch 'router' in the garden room then back to the main router and dvr.

I'm cursing not laying enough cable at the time, thought 3 x cat 6 (2 needed for my Sky) , 1 coax, 4 core 2.5mm SWA and 3 core 10mm SWA would be more than enough. Oh for an extra cat 6 and twin core (I'd like to link the house and garden room motion detectors as well!).

Back to the drawing board.

I am going to wash my mouth out after saying this but you could use a port doubler on one or both of your CAT6 lines if you don't need Gig connections.

Or better still a cheap 8 port switch.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[SteveMcB]

I am going to wash my mouth out after saying this but you could use a port doubler on one or both of your CAT6 lines if you don't need Gig connections.

Or better still a cheap 8 port switch.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Not familiar with that kit TBH but I'm guessing that would give me more ports? Problem I have is that I can't get a cat6 cable from the garden room router to the camera position.

 

[Arcam]

Yeah it will give you more data ports, you were talking about not laying enough CAT6 cable so I assumed you were just out of data ports.

 

[SteveMcB]

Unfortunately not, I had so many other things to think about that I forgot to run in another cable, fell down at the planning phase. Thanks anyway.

 

[desertstorm]

You could use something like this.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solwise-...et-Adapter-with-PoE-802-3at-af/183073536070?x

 

[AudiNutta]

You could use something like this.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solwise-...et-Adapter-with-PoE-802-3at-af/183073536070?x

I’m still waiting on a valve controller, don’t know how much slower they could get.

My girlfriend picked up on the car being loud yesterday after 260 miles on the motorway.

 

[Behind The Bins]

I’m still waiting on a valve controller, don’t know how much slower they could get.

My girlfriend picked up on the car being loud yesterday after 260 miles on the motorway.

Couldnt you say it was tyre roar

 

[Behind The Bins]

I fit security systems for a living

A pro system for 4 cams would be a Hik vision 7604 with four turret style cams, a quick search on ebay found this:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIKVISION-4-x-5MP-Cameras-POE-4Ch-NVR-Video-Recorder-DS-7604NI-K1-4IP-4K-Kit-UK/152807479114?var=452517706583&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20160908110712&meid=d5b62ba7db494a8388c50aba21a41a49&pid=100677&rk=6&rkt=26&sd=152807472796&itm=452517706583&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

Allow 1TB of hard drive per 2 cams, so if you want an 8 cam system, 7608, get a 4 TB hard drive this will give you approx 30 days recording ish

Fit cams under soffit to shield from weather, easy cable run to NVR.

Fit NVR in loft (above bedroom) and run a HDMI cable (or cat 5 with HDMI extender, £25 Amazon) to your TV in your bedroom. Use a bluetooth mouse to control NVR

Fitting NVR in loft (hiding it basically) negates the worry of the hard evidence being stolen at time of burglary.

Buy pre made cat 5 RJ45 leads of a suitable lenghth, cat 6 just not required and would be over speccing.

Run cat 5 cable to your router and get system online, use app on phone to set up cams, use serial number from NVR and download Hikvision viewing software so you can view CCTV on any PC in the world, password protected.

View playback on your PC, Ipad, Phone, old baked bean tin haha

The 7604 is pretty much plug and play with only the getting online part marginally difficult, I can help with any of the above


Good luck

 

[Behind The Bins]

Sorry forgot to say some Hik vision cams can connect over wifi, you would need to power them locally though, so if you have a shed at the bottom of the garden and have mains power but cannot get a cat 5 to the location, its do able, but a little tricky. 12v dc tranny required, cheap enough

I wouldnt go mad doing cams this way as a dedicated cable is always best but its a solution if you are in the poo

 

[SteveMcB]

Thanks for that, I can fit a transformer no problem, do you reckon that would work with my current network, ie camera talks to router switch in garden room and uses the existing cat 6 from there back to the main router?

 

[Behind The Bins]

The camera is just an IP address on your network so yes, but how are you recording? If you have an NVR you should be able to change the protocol of the camera to match the NVR. A universal protocol is Onvif, most cams/NVRs support this
Things to consider are strength of wifi, speed of router, traffic over network

 

[AudiNutta]

Couldnt you say it was tyre roar

Just realised I posted a totally irrelevant post in this thread That teaches me for having multiple ASN tabs open....

 

[SteveMcB]

The camera is just an IP address on your network so yes, but how are you recording? If you have an NVR you should be able to change the protocol of the camera to match the NVR. A universal protocol is Onvif, most cams/NVRs support this
Things to consider are strength of wifi, speed of router, traffic over network

Not actually bought any kit yet mate, wifi strength is good, camera will be about 20ft from the garden room's slave router (configured as a switch). Other 3 cameras on the house will be hardwired.

 

[Spinstorm]

I fit security systems for a living

A pro system for 4 cams would be a Hik vision 7604 with four turret style cams, a quick search on ebay found this:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIKVISION-4-x-5MP-Cameras-POE-4Ch-NVR-Video-Recorder-DS-7604NI-K1-4IP-4K-Kit-UK/152807479114?var=452517706583&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20160908110712&meid=d5b62ba7db494a8388c50aba21a41a49&pid=100677&rk=6&rkt=26&sd=152807472796&itm=452517706583&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

Allow 1TB of hard drive per 2 cams, so if you want an 8 cam system, 7608, get a 4 TB hard drive this will give you approx 30 days recording ish

Fit cams under soffit to shield from weather, easy cable run to NVR.

Fit NVR in loft (above bedroom) and run a HDMI cable (or cat 5 with HDMI extender, £25 Amazon) to your TV in your bedroom. Use a bluetooth mouse to control NVR

Fitting NVR in loft (hiding it basically) negates the worry of the hard evidence being stolen at time of burglary.

Buy pre made cat 5 RJ45 leads of a suitable lenghth, cat 6 just not required and would be over speccing.

Run cat 5 cable to your router and get system online, use app on phone to set up cams, use serial number from NVR and download Hikvision viewing software so you can view CCTV on any PC in the world, password protected.

View playback on your PC, Ipad, Phone, old baked bean tin haha

The 7604 is pretty much plug and play with only the getting online part marginally difficult, I can help with any of the above


Good luck

WTF! Seriously guys instead of messing about like this for cameras which aren’t as good get a Nest Cam - or other smart camera system - buy a new router/mesh system plug it in and be done.

I can’t believe how many people here are happy paying more than £50k for a car but £200 a camera and £20 a month is too much!!!!

 

[SteveMcB]

WTF! Seriously guys instead of messing about like this for cameras which aren’t as good get a Nest Cam - or other smart camera system - buy a new router/mesh system plug it in and be done.

I can’t believe how many people here are happy paying more than £50k for a car but £200 a camera and £20 a month is too much!!!!

You've got a point, the kit looks good, 4 x £300 for the IQ cameras I could just about live with, it's the monthly fee that puts me off - £60 for 30 days backup (the package I'd need to cover holidays) is too much for me.

 

[Spinstorm]

You've got a point, the kit looks good, 4 x £300 for the IQ cameras I could just about live with, it's the monthly fee that puts me off - £60 for 30 days backup (the package I'd need to cover holidays) is too much for me.

Obviously everyone can chose whatever system they want. Some people prefer hard wired but why have all that hassle above?

As for the fee - 10 days is enough. If you go on holiday for longer you can increase it to 30. It isn’t a contract. You can change it if you need to. Remember any additional cameras are half price each month after the first camera.

10 days is enough - you will be very unlikely to have no internet whilst on holiday. And even if you do you can give access to the cameras to a trusted friend or to another family member so even if your out of touch they can see what is going on.

 

[SteveMcB]

Obviously everyone can chose whatever system they want. Some people prefer hard wired but why have all that hassle above?

As for the fee - 10 days is enough. If you go on holiday for longer you can increase it to 30. It isn’t a contract. You can change it if you need to. Remember any additional cameras are half price each month after the first camera.

10 days is enough - you will be very unlikely to have no internet whilst on holiday. And even if you do you can give access to the cameras to a trusted friend or to another family member so even if your out of touch they can see what is going on.

That sounds a bit more reasonable right enough. I'm waiting on planning consent for some pretty major renovations, the back wall of the house is coming out so I'll install a system when I'm rebuilding. Got about a month to decide on the kit.

 

[desertstorm]

You say the cameras aren't as good but I am not seeing anything substantially better in terms of recorded video quality than what I have. I have Hikvision 4K cameras and a 7604 very similar to the items linked by @Behind The Bins . Looking at the nest night recorded images they are not as good as the Hikvision as the IR illuminator is not as powerful.

The problem with subscription services is they tend to go up. You have invested in the kit but it's of no use without the service. If Nest went bump in 6 months, unlikely but possible , the system will be useless.
How long would you expect to keep the cctv system for ? 2 years , 5 years ?.How much money will you have spent in 5 years on subscriptions?
This review raises a few questions but also praises the quality of the live video and some of the subscription services.
https://www.idg.tv/video/85155/nest-cam-iq-outdoor-review

 

[D0C]

My friend has hikvision. HD quality. Can't see why you'd want anything better.

 

[Spinstorm]

You say the cameras aren't as good but I am not seeing anything substantially better in terms of recorded video quality than what I have. I have Hikvision 4K cameras and a 7604 very similar to the items linked by @Behind The Bins . Looking at the nest night recorded images they are not as good as the Hikvision as the IR illuminator is not as powerful.

The problem with subscription services is they tend to go up. You have invested in the kit but it's of no use without the service. If Nest went bump in 6 months, unlikely but possible , the system will be useless.
How long would you expect to keep the cctv system for ? 2 years , 5 years ?.How much money will you have spent in 5 years on subscriptions?
This review raises a few questions but also praises the quality of the live video and some of the subscription services.
https://www.idg.tv/video/85155/nest-cam-iq-outdoor-review

We obviously have a insurmountable difference of opinion here

But in answer to your points... You may think the video quality is better than Nest; and based on pure numbers if your Hik cameras are recording and saving 4K footage I will accept that (although I am telling you based on using them myself that the quality of Nest is on par or better to what I have seen).

If you really wanted better night vision from Nest you can always get outdoor IR lights but again my experience is that you do not need that.

Nest is part of Google. Nest is not going anywhere; the product range is increasing all the time. Here in the UK a video doorbell is about to be launched along with later in the year a security alarm system and smart lock and I am sure there will be more products as well.

Yes you need the subscription for recording. And the guy made a great point in saying take that into consideration. I consider the easy of use, quality and features to be worth the charge but not everyone will. It is down to personal choice.

Nest has cloud based features as you saw - the ability to recognise people. Identify different sounds like people talking and dogs barking. Face recognition on the IQ cameras (check out the image of it recognising my dogs face ), You can also set up activity zones to give you alerts or stop alerts; you can set them to only alert you outside of the house or all the time, you can set them so the cameras turn on or off lights and your footage is immediately safe at all times in the cloud. No one can break in steal your CCTV footage.

And in fact as soon as you see someone they will leave most often because you can speak to them through the camera. The app is simple and easy to use and is regularly updated and can be shared with family members or friends securely as well. So there are many benefits. But if you want to go for the wired root then that’s fine. Your allowed to

The Nest cams also have a design that is trying to look good unlike traditional cameras which considering the guy that started Nest invented the iPod that shouldn’t be a surprise.

 

[Behind The Bins]

WTF! Seriously guys instead of messing about like this for cameras which aren’t as good get a Nest Cam - or other smart camera system - buy a new router/mesh system plug it in and be done.

I can’t believe how many people here are happy paying more than £50k for a car but £200 a camera and £20 a month is too much!!!!

Wow dont want to get into argument especially with Spinstorm, he never gives up haha

If you want a Nest system go for it happy days

I offered a system that could be installed by somebody not familar with CCTV, but with a modicum of DIY skill, excellent results could be achieved, no cables need terminating.

There are HD systems that are require coax and power cabling which are cheaper but need slightly more install capabilities

@SteveMcB your wifi solution should work, just check any camera you buy has wifi capability

 

[SteveMcB]

@Phil3 sorry for the hijack!

Lot's to think about here and thanks for narrowing it down to 2 systems. I'm reasonably handy and like a challenge, I built my garden room from scratch and will be doing all the work in the house - except for putting the big steels in.

Pity those nest cams can't record to a hard drive.

 

[Phil3]

haha no worries mate... a lot of the info here is over my head but I’ve been able to look into some of it too so it’s all helpful... and if others can get help from it then everyone wins

I decided on a Swann HD Pro CCTV System and it came today... had a fiddle about with it just now and I’m really pleased with it... the night vision on it is very impressive indeed! Just need some dry weather to get it mounted outside properly... the RS3 will be here in less than two weeks so it’ll be set up and done before then for sure

 

[desertstorm]

Yes sorry @Phil3 for the thread hijack. Swann cameras are made by Hikvision and use a lot of the technology from the more expensive cameras. One of my work colleagues bought a system from Screwfix and is well happy with it.
I don't believe I have ever seen a Nest camera set up for CCTV in a Tesco, Marks and Spencers etc etc. I have seen lots of Hikvision stuff indeed a new Tesco by my daughter has several Hikvision cameras outside.
You can configure an NVR to store in the cloud if thats what you really want. 2 minutes and it's done.

Of course you will end up paying a subscription to get a decent amount of capacity . Google one drive is £8 a month for 1Tb, and of course you can use that for anything else you want.
You can set the cameras to ignore certain areas that may trigger events, On my system in the rear garden It doesn't trigger a recording event when the trees move in the wind. You can even set privacy masks should your camera overlook a neighbour who doesn't want to be recorded.
https://forum.use-ip.co.uk/threads/hikvision-privacy-masks.781/
Set up alerts for your phone.

Buy a Hikvision smart camera and it will do facial recognition and loads of other stuff. Nest cameras really don't do much more they do make it easy to set up and use though, that's where it will win.
Nest cameras are also wired , they need power. You have to run a cable to the camera and then get that to a power socket .

 

[Spinstorm]

Yes sorry @Phil3 for the thread hijack. Swann cameras are made by Hikvision and use a lot of the technology from the more expensive cameras. One of my work colleagues bought a system from Screwfix and is well happy with it.
I don't believe I have ever seen a Nest camera set up for CCTV in a Tesco, Marks and Spencers etc etc. I have seen lots of Hikvision stuff indeed a new Tesco by my daughter has several Hikvision cameras outside.
You can configure an NVR to store in the cloud if thats what you really want. 2 minutes and it's done.

Of course you will end up paying a subscription to get a decent amount of capacity . Google one drive is £8 a month for 1Tb, and of course you can use that for anything else you want.
You can set the cameras to ignore certain areas that may trigger events, On my system in the rear garden It doesn't trigger a recording event when the trees move in the wind. You can even set privacy masks should your camera overlook a neighbour who doesn't want to be recorded.
https://forum.use-ip.co.uk/threads/hikvision-privacy-masks.781/
Set up alerts for your phone.

Buy a Hikvision smart camera and it will do facial recognition and loads of other stuff. Nest cameras really don't do much more they do make it easy to set up and use though, that's where it will win.
Nest cameras are also wired , they need power. You have to run a cable to the camera and then get that to a power socket .

Nest isn't aimed at the commercial sector. So that is why it's not in those places.

Your right Nest needs power and internet and a subscription for recording.
However the way the features are implemented is above anyone else; for example the face recognition uses Google's technology. No one could even hope to compare to that; but its all kept private for you.

Again its personal preference but useful to know that comparing Swan and any other existing camera maker with Nest is like comparing Dacia and Audi, They are both cars but one is amazing and one does the job; people can chose (nothing again Dacia lol).

 

[D0C]

Lol! For people who are wanting added security for their 3-bed semi and posh A3, the Dacia will do quite nicely for most, me included!

 

[Spinstorm]

Lol! For people who are wanting added security for their 3-bed semi and posh A3, the Dacia will do quite nicely for most, me included!

Maybe but then you better stop using super unleaded on your TTRS as normal does quite nicely for you as well

 

[SteveMcB]

haha no worries mate... a lot of the info here is over my head but I’ve been able to look into some of it too so it’s all helpful... and if others can get help from it then everyone wins

I decided on a Swann HD Pro CCTV System and it came today... had a fiddle about with it just now and I’m really pleased with it... the night vision on it is very impressive indeed! Just need some dry weather to get it mounted outside properly... the RS3 will be here in less than two weeks so it’ll be set up and done before then for sure

Should have bought an SQ5 - nobody wants to steal them

 

[d8ean]

running Netgear Arlo, 720 picture quality. bought them after we moved in a few months back.
4 bed semi - nice area
managed to get a fright the other night after finding a recording of 2 fellas crawling over the 2 cars on the drive... they didnt know the camera was there so its given me the heads up.
So for me thats worth having them, of course you cant use the footage for anything, but its enough to tell me that i've been targeted.

 

[mrbubba]

Any recommendations for a decent quality CCTV camera? Can't afford to spend loads, it's to try and work out who's letting their dog **** on my front lawn, getting fed up of the kids treading in it and me cleaning up!

Then I need a good quality metal baseball bat.....

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[D0C]

Any recommendations for a decent quality CCTV camera? Can't afford to spend loads, it's to try and work out who's letting their dog **** on my front lawn, getting fed up of the kids treading in it and me cleaning up!

Then I need a good quality metal baseball bat.....

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

I use Hikvision. More than good enough.

And just use wire for the bat, Lucille/Walking Dead style!