Car remapped and clutch slipping instantly.. Need advice please

[S3_Jacko]

Hey guys n gals

Where to start..? Been a long term plan from buying the S3 that I wanted to build up to the stage 1 map.. Well got everything sorted... Totally went over the whole car since I bought it and got it looking exactly how I wanted it, then it was time to do the performance upgrades. Started off by fitting the MTC intake with the ITG filter, then I fitted the GFB DV+ and thought I was good to go... Booked the car in for the map and got it done this morning.. Was really excited to be nearing the end of the mission and getting the car to where I wanted it, however my excitement was short lived! Instantly after getting the car mapped (Stage 1 Shark) I took it on the test run and there was a bit of clutch slip.... nooooo! Running it home (Approx 50 miles) Again more clutch slip but not all the time, only really notice it from 4th gear upwards... Anyway I knew a clutch upgrade was always gonna be on the cards, but thought that it would have gave me more time standard to save for the clutch!

I've got an early 08 8p2 and doing a bit of research I looks as if the standard OEM clutch was uprated as standard to a sachs clutch, but i'm guessing that was on the 58 8P3 when that has probably came into effect.

I'm looking into buying a sachs SRE setup, but its really an expense I was not wanting at present.. I'm wondering if I get the clutch, can I run this with the current LUK DMF?... I have absolutely no plans of adding anymore power to the car, so any future mods is not an issue.... Or do you think its possible once the map settles and with a while of standard driving the clutch will bed itself in with the upgraded power? (Noobish question?) The car drives fine at the moment normally, but the only other thing i've noticed is theres a bit of ticking noise coming from the exhaust when at idle and slightly through the lower rev range before engine noise drowns out the sound.... Any ideas what this could be, and if its normal? Done a bit of searching and a few folk says its normal, but it sure doesnt sound like its right...

I'm also noticing a lot of flutter through the intake aswell...1st time i've mapped a car, so dont know if all this is normal? The thing i'm really disappointed in is that the car was running perfect before I got the map done.. just wanted that extra 30-40hp though and its brought up so many problems...........

I'm quite disappointed and the thought of selling the car has actually went through my head... but love it, just want it to be done!

Back to the original question though, will the car be ok, running a SRE sachs clutch with my original DM flywheel..

The cars running:

Shark stage 1
MTC intake with ITG filter
GFB DV+

Problems:

Clutch slip instantly
Exhaust ticking (done a bit more research and it looks like its the exhaust flap clicking?)
Intake flutter (Again heard this is normal, but its just making all sorts of noises i'm not used to?)

Any advice is really appreciated in advance guys cheers.......


Thought i'd add a wee pic of the car aswell...

 

[desertstorm]

How many miles has the car done ? The flywheel will usually take a lot more torque than the clutch will, without issue.
The clutch is not going to get any better and give you more grip, it is only likely to get worse. The hotter a clutch gets the more it will slip so as soon as it starts slipping you need to back off. If it slips too much the front face of the DMF will blue and it won't be any good with a new clutch anyway.
There isn't any reason why you can't drive around this problem by using less of the right foot.
It's a pity you can't switch to a standard map that would help the situation.
Nice looking car by the way .

Karl

 

[S3_Jacko]

Thanks mate.... Forgot to mention the car has done 56k miles...

just wanted to add... I love the extra power before slip and just wanna have the full potential of the map without any issues

 

[Marshy]

This hits the bail on the head for me.
I've tuned my last 2 tfsi cars.
1 with Revo the other with APR also tried superchips along the way.
Had to put clutches in both of them at much lower miles than your at!

That's why this ones staying standard. As I've never found an open intake I like the sound of and once mapped I feel you lose that oem smoothness in the sacrifice for power.
Also as you've pointed out you gain some new noises and characteristics.

 

[Gfermer]

Not good mate after chatting at last meet know this was not your plans if I was you I would either remove map or bite the bullet and get new clutch and flywheel big expense specially at this time of year? I'm saving for mine the now so as soon as I get slip or a good deal on a clutch comes up ill maybe grab it tell Broddy to get a group buy and knock £100 off hahaha

 

[Boydie]

Off topic but have you sprayed the bottom splitter of the front bumper black to tie in with the grill? any front on pictures?

 

[furlong1909]

gutted to read this, spending money to get your car to how you want it to find you have to spend even more to accomodate it is sickening. having a revo stage 1 map in a few weeks and just going to have to expect the clutch to cave in and upgrade!

 

[Boydie]

The clutches are weak even with standard power.

 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

I'd possibly be interested in a group buy on the LOBA kit but we would need 10 orders really which is a lot for such an expensive item.

 

[Gfermer]

I would be in for a group buy! I think the fact is you need a clutch if you going to remap maybe not straight away but it's gonna Happen,

 

[Gfermer]

I've put a post up and asked if anyone els is wanting a clutch I'm going to need one next year regardless so if there's chance of group buy even better

 

[Brodster]

We felt the slip in 6th when hard accelerating but obviously it got worse on the way home. Strange to see it slipping so soon as mine hasnt slipped once and Ive done nearly 20k miles on it with various stages and tuning going on. And you felt mine Jacko......was pulling really hard so this is very disappointting seeing as you were looking forward to it so much. If you want the original map back on then let me know and we can remap again.

A group buy is on the cards as there are few after new clutches but will look into this after Xmas.

 

[Gfermer]

Looking good then ill keep a look out for the group buys then

 

[S3_Jacko]

We felt the slip in 6th when hard accelerating but obviously it got worse on the way home. Strange to see it slipping so soon as mine hasnt slipped once and Ive done nearly 20k miles on it with various stages and tuning going on. And you felt mine Jacko......was pulling really hard so this is very disappointting seeing as you were looking forward to it so much. If you want the original map back on then let me know and we can remap again.

A group buy is on the cards as there are few after new clutches but will look into this after Xmas.

Dont get me wrong mate, it is only slipping when i'm beasting it and only a small slip then catches straight away... Yeah its a bit disappointing but its there now and needs dealt with.. The only way I see it is, put the original map back on and take the hit for the cost of the map? Shelling out nearly £1k between map and new clutch wasnt something I was expecting at this time of yr... If I could get away with fitting the SRE sachs clutch onto my current DMF then thats prob the route i'd want to go down... Obv nothing wrong with any of the tuning or anything like that... Just a gutter that the clutch is sh!t... Alex's clutch was no-where near as bad as mine and his has done 82k miles... Gutter!

 

[S3_Jacko]

Off topic but have you sprayed the bottom splitter of the front bumper black to tie in with the grill? any front on pictures?

i'll post some pics up after I get home boydie, its really 6/half dozen grey/black.. Both look good imo

 

[furlong1909]

sorry jacko just re-read your first post, so will my 09 plate s3 have an uprated clutch flywheel as standard? thank

 

[S3_Mat]

DMF will be the same, clutch is likely to be an uprated Sachs organic.. not sure on the part number or if its the same sachs clutch plate as in the loba/sachs smf kit.

 

[Gfermer]

What about leAving the map and saving up for clutch ? Just don't give your car a lot of abuse fair bit of money to loose on the map

 

[R90 STL]

gutted to read about this matey I know how much you were excited for it as well. Even I was excited for you! I hope you get it resolved soon.

 

[stetheo]

Really is a shame about this. My car is booked in for a stage 1 remap on Saturday, I'm hoping my clutch doesn't give up straight away especially as a previous owner had the clutch changed by Audi not that long ago. Long term it will be getting changed anyway I'd imagine when I get bored at stage 1. The group buy could definitely swing that to be sooner rather than later...

 

[S3_Mat]

If the previous owner had it swapped by Audi you would hope its the uprated plate! Save the money anyway and appreciate the map, if the clutch slips so be it.

 

[stetheo]

Yeah i need to ring Audi to check, I just keep forgetting! Oh i will be, i'm hoping it brings the car to life a bit more.. If not I will be at stage 2+ a lot sooner than I had planned

 

[S3Alex]

I think the best advice is to always budget on a new clutch just in case.

The pre-Sachs clutch is frankly rubbish,and even a worn,or abused Sachs will chuck in the towel at some stage,especially higher mileage examples.

My car was new when I bought it,and was mapped to Stg1 at around 10 000 miles,with Stg2 shortly after,and that was the end for the OEM clutch.

The Sachs organic is very good,and capable of up to and above 400lbs,if it's treated with a bit of respect,but the Loba/SMF is a bit tougher.

 

[S3_Jacko]

Just been over to a motorsport specialist and asked him for advice regarding the situation...

he says its perfectly normal, the added 40hp or so, just pushes the clutch over its limit.. We were also talking about the sachs clutch with the dual mass flywheel and again he recommended replacing both at the same time, that was a given considering the gearbox is already off, but hes not the 1 trying to cut down on costs of course... He was also saying about the SMF and saying that he done 1 recently and the rattle would be unbearable to any daily driver...

his advice to me was either

pay out all the cash and get the clutch + flywheel done... Over 1k its been priced at...

£500 clutch.... £280 LUK DMF.... £340 Labour

remove the map, or adjust my driving style to suit it without slipping... He recommended taking the rev range further up than normal, so there is no roll on boost and it should be ok...

thoughts?

 

[S3_Mat]

Is the rattle really that bad though? This is such a subjective thing, i hear different views some saying its barely noticable and others saying its resolved itself as the clutch has bedded in and some other people who still have judder and vibration at 10k+ on a new clutch... Its such a high cost "mod" that it would be great to be able to drive a with one fitted to see for yourself before taking the plunge..

 

[S3_Jacko]

I never even mentioned the rattle Mat.. It was the fella himself that mentioned it and said its absolutely terrible on vag cars... But its all really down to what your prepeared to live with I guess... I'm only quoting what he was saying, so dunno for sure?

 

[S3Alex]

Just been over to a motorsport specialist and asked him for advice regarding the situation...

he says its perfectly normal, the added 40hp or so, just pushes the clutch over its limit.. We were also talking about the sachs clutch with the dual mass flywheel and again he recommended replacing both at the same time, that was a given considering the gearbox is already off, but hes not the 1 trying to cut down on costs of course... He was also saying about the SMF and saying that he done 1 recently and the rattle would be unbearable to any daily driver...

his advice to me was either

pay out all the cash and get the clutch + flywheel done... Over 1k its been priced at...

£500 clutch.... £280 LUK DMF.... £340 Labour

remove the map, or adjust my driving style to suit it without slipping... He recommended taking the rev range further up than normal, so there is no roll on boost and it should be ok...

thoughts?

Is the rattle really that bad though? This is such a subjective thing, i hear different views some saying its barely noticable and others saying its resolved itself as the clutch has bedded in and some other people who still have judder and vibration at 10k+ on a new clutch... Its such a high cost "mod" that it would be great to be able to drive a with one fitted to see for yourself before taking the plunge..

It's not bhp that kills clutches,it's torque,and the stock clutch is marginal at best.

The clutch and DMF should be replaced at the same time,as they both wear,and high mileage DMFs have been known to fail.

The Sachs/LUK DMF will cope with 400+lbs,or at least mine did,but you DO have to look after it a bit,but it is an alternative for those who really don't want an SMF setup.


Now...is an SMF really that noisy.....

Again,it does come down to opinion,but at idle,you will notice a moderate increase in drivetrain rattling,but you won't notice it on the move.
Mine is probably rather more extreme than most will be looking for,and it seriously isn't all that bad.

 

[Brodster]

Jack you will never lose the remap buddy as I have it. If you wanna take it back to stock and then get the uprated clutch then thats no probs buddy. I will just get the car after the clutch is fitted and upload it again.

 

[desertstorm]

It's not the DMF that is causing the issue here it's the clutch and pressure plate. The OE clutch is not capable of dealing with the torque being transmitted.
If you went for a solid flywheel you would still need the clutch and it would cost the same to swap and you woulld end up with a potentially worse to drive car. The DMF allows quicker gearchanges, A quieter idle , an easier life for the gearbox so is the way to go.
In my opinion you should listen to the motorsport specialist. keep you foot off the accelerator a bit more. You can drive around these issue. Keep the map on the car and get the clutch sorted when you can.
It is the torque that causes the problem as somebody who drives tuned diesels and has suffered these issues you can drive around them, you just have to think a bit and not mash the accelerator into the carpet .

Karl.

 

[Jamie-S]

I would just bite the bullet and get the dmf and clutch replaced, it will be fine then for as long as you'd keep the car I'd hope.

I've just priced mine up ie clutch and dmf

Obviously mine is a 3.0 tdI quattro so will be a bit different but here are the prices for mine as mine is juddering slightly on 1st and reverse and I do want it mapped at some point.

Fly the cheapest i've found is £342
Clutch (two disc type) £288
Labour £353
Then possible some other bearing and sleeve but I've not confirmed there needed.

It's a lot of money but I think a remap highlights any undergoing clutch/fly problems so you would of had to get it done at some point if you kept it anyway

 

[c_w]

I had a TDI 170 remapped and it was practically undriveable on the way home; major clutch slip and could hardly touch the throttle in higher gears without it slipping. It wasn't so bad the next day. I priced up clutches etc but interesting over the next couple of months (I drove it carefully) it stopped slipping and seemed to re-bed in. I suspect the person who mapped my car was a bit eager on the test drive and you can fry a clutch which when overheated will slip a lot more making it worse but it can sometimes, rare I admit, bed back in.

It seems the clutches on VAG cars are just not strong though - it's as if they are making more and more powerful engines which delivery high low end torque but are not uprating the drivetrain [clutch] to match. In the old days a clutch's envelope would be well above the engines power output, now they appear to be always on the edge.

 

[Jamie-S]

I had a TDI 170 remapped and it was practically undriveable on the way home; major clutch slip and could hardly touch the throttle in higher gears without it slipping. It wasn't so bad the next day. I priced up clutches etc but interesting over the next couple of months (I drove it carefully) it stopped slipping and seemed to re-bed in. I suspect the person who mapped my car was a bit eager on the test drive and you can fry a clutch which when overheated will slip a lot more making it worse but it can sometimes, rare I admit, bed back in.

It seems the clutches on VAG cars are just not strong though - it's as if they are making more and more powerful engines which delivery high low end torque but are not uprating the drivetrain [clutch] to match. In the old days a clutch's envelope would be well above the engines power output, now they appear to be always on the edge.

A way to get more money out of people, more frequent clutch changes lol

 

[S3_Jacko]

Yeah guys... I've not exactly made my mind up yet as to what i'm going to do... Would like to have the extra power but need to weigh up if £1.5k is really justifyable for a 40hp and torque increase... I thought the standard clutch would have handled the stage 1 no problems as I dont think the cars at a high enough mileage as yet to put a new clutch in... All depends on how it was driven in the past though... I was getting slippage on the way home and thats the problem here, I want no slippage at all, so driving round the problem is just gonna be a temporary solutuion til I get this sorted.... Need to make up my mind if I want the extra power or just take the cost hit on the map and return the original map onto the car... Whatever way its spun, its a crap sotuation to be in and i'm very disappointed as stated as I was really looking forward to it and worked hard up to it... But hey its a hard lesson learned, welcome to the world of car tuning eh!

I'm gonna take the car a drive tonight to try and work out how bad it is and see if its liveable at the moment with just my normal driving and not spanking it on country roads as I did on the way back (couldnt help myself) ha....

aw well, looks like xbox 1 will be on the back burner for another while yet

 

[S3_Jacko]

I had a TDI 170 remapped and it was practically undriveable on the way home; major clutch slip and could hardly touch the throttle in higher gears without it slipping. It wasn't so bad the next day. I priced up clutches etc but interesting over the next couple of months (I drove it carefully) it stopped slipping and seemed to re-bed in. I suspect the person who mapped my car was a bit eager on the test drive and you can fry a clutch which when overheated will slip a lot more making it worse but it can sometimes, rare I admit, bed back in.

It seems the clutches on VAG cars are just not strong though - it's as if they are making more and more powerful engines which delivery high low end torque but are not uprating the drivetrain [clutch] to match. In the old days a clutch's envelope would be well above the engines power output, now they appear to be always on the edge.

i'm hoping to have a similar issue to you mate... Would be nice, i'll find out tonight when I take it for a good test drive.... Im not holding out much hope though

 

[S3Alex]

It seems the clutches on VAG cars are just not strong though - it's as if they are making more and more powerful engines which delivery high low end torque but are not uprating the drivetrain [clutch] to match. In the old days a clutch's envelope would be well above the engines power output, now they appear to be always on the edge.

I think it's fair to say that 320lbs (for a remapped 2.0TFSi) is not exactly a huge torque value,and many diesels will exceed this,so there are clutch solutions out there to deal with the torque,but VAG seem to be happy with the minimum spec possible,perhaps to dissuade owners from remapping,perhaps even to maximise their profit margins,who knows.

 

[bmh.01]

Just go for the clutch imo, I fitted an sre clutch and new flywheel to mine before stage 1 as I couldn't be done with the dissapointment of what has happened to you.

And the options to go to 2+ without worrying about the clutch etc.

 

[S3_Jacko]

Just go for the clutch imo, I fitted an sre clutch and new flywheel to mine before stage 1 as I couldn't be done with the dissapointment of what has happened to you.

And the options to go to 2+ without worrying about the clutch etc.

Did you go for the Loba SMF?

 

[Brodster]

Think you nailed it on the head there Alex.........greater profit margins.

 

[Jamie-S]

Just go for the clutch imo, I fitted an sre clutch and new flywheel to mine before stage 1 as I couldn't be done with the dissapointment of what has happened to you.

And the options to go to 2+ without worrying about the clutch etc.

Diy Ben?

 

[desertstorm]

I would just bite the bullet and get the dmf and clutch replaced, it will be fine then for as long as you'd keep the car I'd hope.

I've just priced mine up ie clutch and dmf

Obviously mine is a 3.0 tdI quattro so will be a bit different but here are the prices for mine as mine is juddering slightly on 1st and reverse and I do want it mapped at some point.

Fly the cheapest i've found is £342
Clutch (two disc type) £288
Labour £353
Then possible some other bearing and sleeve but I've not confirmed there needed.

It's a lot of money but I think a remap highlights any undergoing clutch/fly problems so you would of had to get it done at some point if you kept it anyway

Hello Jamie and the OP check out Car Parts, Spares & Accessories | Car Parts UK | Buy Car Parts Online | Buy Parts By for clutch prices .
The clutch and flywheel for our 3.0 TDI B8 is £506 delivered. Genuine LUK parts. I don't believe there are any other manufacturers for these at the moment. LUK make them OE for Audi, there don't appear to be any uprated parts available although I have seen a few in Europe running standard clutches and over 650Nm .

Karl.