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Car buying DPF/NonDPF

piglet14 Aug 13, 2017

  1. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    I'm looking for a good A4 with 3.0Tdi, which I plan to get mapped.
    If I buy pre-2009 how can I tell if it left the factory with DPF?
    The MOT test centre must have access to this info but I'm not getting anywhere.
    Had a pointless conversation with Audi UK about it.
    Thanks in advance
    Tim
     
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  3. Derek Anderson

    Derek Anderson New Member

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    Hi Tim, have a look at the options sticker, if i remeber right, there is a code on there to say its not got one, 7GN is the code to look for.
    As for thr mot, "A catalytic converter or particulate filter missing where one was fitted as standard." is what the manual says for the reason for rejection.
    We look to see if the exhaust has been modified in any way regarding the DPF,
    Hope this helps
    Derek
     
  4. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks Derek, that's helpful.
    Is that on the drivers B pillar?
    Are you a tester?
    How do test stations know which were fitted as standard and which were not?
     
  5. Derek Anderson

    Derek Anderson New Member

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    Its in the service book
    I have a 3.0 tdi i am selling just now, non dpf, thats how i know.
    Yes i am a tester, well part time, when not doing my full time job.
    We look to see if exhaust has been modified, its hard to do now as needs remapped etc.
    Just had a look at the car, cant see the sticker, try an online VIN decoder, that might work if you have the chassie number
     
  6. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Mine's a 55 plate 204bhp and has no DPF. Not sure when they started putting them in but 2.o TDIs got them in 2006, I imagine most other models would be around the same time. I used to have a 2.o TDI, DPF car which the owner before had removed the internals. If they just take the DPF and re-map it should be fine but if the empty the canister, you have no Cat either and they are very fumey, more than you would want to put up with, trust me. Mine was mapped but wasn't right and had an empty canister, hard to spot as it was quite well welded. I got it mapped properly and it was much improved and a good bit qiucker too :)
     
  7. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks for that, I really don't want to go down the modified exhaust route. Just a simple remap on a standard car for me.
    If the tester is only looking for exhaust modifications wouldn't swapping the complete system for a Non-DPF (&software edit) get past MOT?
    Let's be clear this is not my intention, I just don't want to buy a basket case.
     
  8. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    I don't think so as they would know from the age of the vehicle if it was meant to have one. I know what you are saying but most custom exhaust makers would be able to give you a DPF canister, I am sure with anything you like in it ;)
    Other than that you are stuck with opening up the old one then welding it shut again or replacing it with a new or refurbished DPF? That's all assuming you have issues, you may not, especially if you buy a reasonably low mileage car in the frst place, I don't think many see issues till about teh 80/90K mark.
     
  9. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks for that, with my budget I'm unlikely to get much lower than 70K, hence my concerns re. DPF ownership.
    When I bought my Ford Connect van, the advice was check underneath for the DPF can which is obvious on those, that was January 2015 so the MOT check was in place but I wasn't aware of it. At the van auction I looked at a dozen vans and there was no clear pattern of age/fitment, indeed there was a 2011 van without.
    On the 3.0 is the DPF can visible and visibly different?
     
  10. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    I am not sure (as I don't actually have one) but I can tell you 2.o TDIs are at the side of the engine and so more visible from above thsn below. A3s are at the back of the transverse engine and not easily visible either way but I guess MOT testers are seeing these things daily so will know where to look on most reletively common vehicles. If someone on here has EKTA of similar there may be a diagram of the exhaust, hint hint :)
     
  11. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  13. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    OOPS, sorry been away.
    Good diag. thanks and yes quite a large can thing and separate to the cat. 3 different versions of cat though, and 2 different DPF's. Minefield for sure.
    I'm not clear if that's 1 pipe or 2, I know the 3.0 have 2 tailpipes but that don't mean diddly, depends how the manifold(s) is(are) laid out I guess.
    It's quite possible the whole lot is covered by under shields anyway, in which case it really is down to codes.

    Now, I've just had my Connect van re-mapped and had a good chat with the nice re-mapping lady, she had a bit of a dig and reckoned that NON-DPF's would have '7GN' in the VIN. Which is what Derek said earlier, though he said in the options sticker, so maybe both.
    She also reckoned the watershed would be 07/08.
    My experience with cars is they build every one different anyway.

    If there any 3.0 owners tuning in, perhaps they could look for the 7GN in their VIN codes?
     
  14. Derek Anderson

    Derek Anderson New Member

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    20170901_162405[1].jpg Hope this helps show the 7GN option
    Weedeek
     
  15. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks Derek,
    And that's in the back of the service book?
    So is the 7GN not included in the VIN?
    Are there any build stickers in the drivers door shut?
    Tim
     
  16. Derek Anderson

    Derek Anderson New Member

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    20170902_154552[3] copy.jpg

    Hi Tim, this is mine from undere the rear seat, this is what to look for.
    Weedeek
     
  17. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks Derek, that gives me something to work with.
     
  18. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Hi Sorry been on my Hols. Mine has ""7GN, here's a useful? link to De-coding PR codes, although I woud have to say on this issue I would have been none the wiser from the info provided; http://vwts.ru/index.php?p=complect
     
  19. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    And here it is:
    7GN Emission standard, EU4, DPF preparation

    Can I assume from this that EU4 is DPF ready and EU5 is DPF fitted? To assume is to make a c%&t of you & me of course

    Useful link, but where is the English translation button, I'm a bit sketchy with Cyrilic.
     
  20. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    That would be my understanding as well, to confuse tings there is a EU4, 7GG "Emission Standard EU4 DPF", which I would have to assume means it has one, Seemples :)
     
  21. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    OK, so looked at first one today.
    Bit long in the tooth at 06/110K but it was local
    Service book options sticker had 7GN, I tried to check for a sticker under the rear seats but couldn't work out how to lift them.
    I couldn't see much of the underbody as it's plastic front to rear axle but the chassis beams over the axle had some surface rust.
    The engine started OK but sounded quite rough & noisy, 1st one I've listened to though. The idle seemed high, 900RPM when cold dropping to 800 when a bit warmer. There was a tappety-tappet like sound.
    It wasn't awful but I'll wait for something better.
    What should I be looking for?
     
  22. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    They shouldn't be rattly, sounds like possibly timing chains and they are expensive to get changed, normally an engine out job. I would try to see a few for comparison pursoses but if you think it sounded tappety, then I would say you did the right thing walking away. 110K isn't high for a 3 litre but I would have to say the lower you can get the better. The idle doesn't sound too bad to me, but I can't remember to be honest what it's meant to be, maybe someone else can assist?
     
  23. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks Quattro,
    Since viewing that one, I have enquired after and requested underbody photos of 2 other 2006's.
    All 3 have significant surface rust on the underbody over the rear axle. Given that I plan to keep the car for 5-10 years this is no good.
    I need to narrow down on the last built before DPF, so probably 08/09. Also well after the 04/05 dodgy cam chain models.
    Good job I'm not in a rush!
     
  24. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    They really shouldn't have dodgy cam chains, chains are generally considered to be better than belts and should easily do over 100k, with the engines easily doing 200k. Which brings into question whether the car you looked at was a true mileage. Rust is another issue and I doubt many escape it, again low miles help and maybe anything hat's spent all it's life south of Dover but preferrably as far away as possible from salt water.... yeah, good job your not in a rush :)
     
  25. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    What do Audi state as a chain renewal interval?
     
  26. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    I am not aware if there is one, maybe someone else could give an answer?
    Did a wee quick Google and they are meant to be a Lifetime component, although the length of lifetime seems to be open to debate, possibly 150K :0
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  27. Cristiano

    Cristiano New Member

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    If you're looking at A4's then all the B8's (the 240bhp version and "newer shape") will have DPF. I think the stopped making B7's in early 2008 so all the 08/09's will be B8 - newer shape and with DPF. You might get an old shape 08 (old stock registered late) but fairly rare I should think.
     
  28. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Thanks Cristiano, does that then mean all B7's will be pre-DPF, 7GN?
    Or is it like PAS & Ford where for an interim period it depended on what day of the week the car was built.
    I've looked at some photos and I'm not seeing an obvious difference between B7 & B8 from the front.
    I'm sure there is a difference if someone could enlighten me.
     
  29. Cristiano

    Cristiano New Member

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    That I'm afraid I do not know, my knowledge on the B7's is more limited but I'm 99% sure some of the B7 will have it. Most like they are the same as Ford, yeah. There's no doubt on the B8's as all will have it. That being said, the DPF on the 3.0 tend to be quite reliable and not a big area of concern. They are close to the engine and get hot quite quickly, so unless you do lots of short trips (which won't be friendly to any diesel anyway) then there's little need to worry in the grand scheme of things.

    B7 is here: https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/crop/1200x800/media/5096518/Audi~A4~(2006).jpg
    B8 is here: https://d-mf.ppstatic.pl/art/b9/5a/8fh052go0g8osw48skco4/2007-2012-b8-sedan-1.1200.jpg

    It's not a massive difference as well all Audi's look the same haha, but the headlights (a bit more "straight" on the B8 and yellow indicators) will be a good way to differentiate them.
    Also the rears tend to be quite different in terms of tail lights.
    B7 rear: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Audi_A4_B7_rear_20080318.jpg
    B8 rear: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Audi_A4_B8_rear_20080414.jpg

    Not the prettiest of pictures but hopefully you get the idea.
     
  30. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Looking through photos on Autotrader there seems to be exceptions to the orange front indicator rule.
    More accurate is the side detail, the B7 has a fold line half way up the doors, the B8 has a softer line lower down but sweeping up to the rear arch.
     
  31. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Early B7s 2004 2005 had an orange indicator lens, later ones certainly 07 on had clear with an orange bulb.
    My take on DPFs is that o4/05s don't have them 06s onwards do but there will be exeptions mainly because of the American phenomenon :)
    I noticed this when on American forums and it happens here but it' s less talked about. If you are buying a new car and want the all singing all dancing latest model in say 2005, you go to the dealer and ask for the 2006 model. When you get your car it will still be 2oo5 but you can boast you are one of the first people to have next years model. If on the other hand you want a bargain you look for a run-out 2005 model at a knock down price. So what you find is lots of cars years later are labelled 2006 model, even though they are on an 05/55 plate. So to add some perspective, your 06 cars with DPF may really be considered to be 07 model at the time they were sold but I can't be 100% sure on that but it makes sense and that would conversely mean there will be o6s, 2006 models without DPF.......which is why everyone says 'Check the boot sticker to be sure' the information is all there on that vehicle you can't argue with it ;)
    There was a term Audi used; TDV and all 2nd hand dealers used to trot it out in their adverts, until a couple of years ago. I noticed it tended ot be teh 2006 cars and it bugged me until I asked online what it meant to be told, it has a DPF filter. 'DPF' has become the generic term for all manufacturers now so less confusion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  32. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    Looked at another 3.0, 07 plate B7, 7GN code, no DPF, tailpipes turned down. 80,000miles.
    Drove this one, very impressed. Again the underbody let it down, advanced rust on body over rear axle.
    It had a clicking/tapping at idle, sounded just like an old fashioned tappet click.
    Seemed to come from LH side of engine to the back as I was looking at it.
    Odd, because the first one I looked at did something similar.
    What could it be? Cam? Noisy injector?

    Looking at photos on Autotrader it seems 07/57 are all B7 with turned down tailpipes, 08 onwards B8 with open tailpipes.
    Tempting to think all B7 non-DPF but I'm assuming nothing.
     
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  34. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Geez, I thought it took me a while to find a car :)
    Noises are difficult unless you actually hear them, bearing in mind all diesels have some kind of noise if it is then more than expected, something is wrong.
    Injectors are well capable of knocking noises from just louder than normal to something that sounds like its coning out the side of the block any minute. If it's light ticking and especially from the back of the engine it could be the timing chain or tensioners of which there are several.
    The mileage sounds good and it shouldn't have any noises if it's been looked after but do you want to take the risk, that soon you are going to need to start stripping it to identify exactly what it is?
    Finally I don't think you can assume all B7s have no DPF, I am sure they were fitted for the last, maybe as much as 2 years or from 56 pate on approx.
    Sorry to sound like a Kiljoy, could you come up with a mechanic friend who could go with you? I have even had people organise AA inspections before they buy a car (Me selling) I can understand if someone is just clueless (not suggesting you are :) ) it's better to pay the money and get the right car than end up with it off the road and in the Garage/large bill and so on within the first few months of ownership, I will shut up now, I am depressing myself.
     
  35. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    I know I know, cars have been on the back burner but I need to sort something out, the Arosa is on its last legs.
    It would seem I have to choose between rust or DPF. And a later rust free Car will be another 10 big ones.
    Re. the clicking, I leaned right over the back and gave the timing chain a good listen to, couldn't hear anything that sounded chain like.
    On a positive note I have now driven the spec I want and am suitably impressed.
     
  36. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Ours went down on one glow plug recently, I didn't notice at first but the injector on the same cylinder started rattling a bit particularly on start-up. I changed the plug and ran some cleaner through it and it seems fine now, one your looking at may be the same?
     
  37. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    I would buy a 2260 (turbo) equipped 3.0 TDI if funds allow - Yes they have dpf but I have never seen a 3.0TDI with a blocked DPF and I worked on a few now. They have better injectors, no chain issues, better turbo, advanced ECU, stronger gearbox etc etc

    BV50 cars - well have plenty issues
     
  38. RS4B5

    RS4B5 5 pots

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    Are you sure they do sound good
     
  39. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    On the other hand;

    Not an A4 but it must be possible to replicate with the correct exhaust tuning :)
     
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  40. RS4B5

    RS4B5 5 pots

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    They do sound very nice not all 2.0 tdi have dpf my 2008 doesn't not that it would make a difference problem after problem:rage:
     
  41. piglet14

    piglet14 Finally got my midlife crisis car

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    You're not gonna believe this, I've actually bought one!!
    56 plate 3.0 S-line Avant, 62K, 7GN, paddle shift.
    Underbody better than the others.
    Drives like a dream (well it would after 6 months in a 1.0 Arosa)
    Sons insisted I took them for a blat.
    Verdict from the hat on backwards generation was, goes alright but get a free flow exhaust.

    Only 2 issues,
    No Cruise, can I retro-fit?
    Comes with orange EML, supposedly swirl flaps. We'll see.
     
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  42. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Yesssss!
    Did the Boys see my video above?
    Cruise can be retro fitted, some VAG specialists used to do it with genuine parts not sure who there is near you, maybe start a new thread.
    EML could well be swirl flaps, you can get reconditioned ones on E.Bay, no idea if they are any good. I think they just take yours back and clean/re/furb for the next customer, so they should know what they are doing. I would get a scan done for fault codes first, just to confirm. If there is a decent specialist near you, be should be able to do the lot. Otherwise, as far as I know it is all reasonably accessible, top part of the manifold is plastic and bolts off but I have never actually done it myself, so you could maybe change yourself?
    Good luck with it anyway, at that mileage you should really be fine. It's maybe had lots of short runs and no real blasts in it's lifetime to clear the carbon, so problem is more lack of use than worn out (which I am more used to), all the bast and enjoy :)
     
  43. RS4B5

    RS4B5 5 pots

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    Bring on the derv gtr.....
     

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