Can't understand the torque figures

[skydiver]

Hi All,

Whenever I read the forum I see people with the 1.8 20v t engine with either 225 or 210 HP quoting torque figues of 260+ with a remap. How is this possible if the car is completly standard?

I have seen a few dyno plots claiming high torque and it seems to me that yes it is posible to have quite high torque peaks but thats what they are, peaks.

What is achievable with a decent map, Car and reliable rollers?

 

[Ess_Three]

Simple...
turn up the boost and you force more air in, add more fuel and get more power.

A decent re-map on an S3 will give 255-260BHP on accurate rollers...some a wee bit more.

If you start optimising more stuff, or going for bespoke re-maps using more boost, more ignition timing etc you can up the numbers.

Basically, you'll see 260-270 lb-ft of torque and 255-260 BHP with a re-map and no other mods.
Add a FMIC to sort out the crap standard intercooling and crank up the boost, and 265-270 BHP with 300 lb-ft is possible.

Beyond that you are getting into lots of little changes and very aggressive maps...
My old S3 used to make 275 BHP and 330+ lb-ft of torque all day, running 1.85 bar + peak boost and 1.3 bar sustained to the redline, every day.
This was on the same dyno as it made 208BHP and 199 lb-ft if torque standard (it was an AMK, 210 BHP S3)...and every step of the way, it gained power and torque.

Turn up the boost...get more power and torque. Easy...

With regard to torque peaks...sure, 330+ lb-ft was a peak...but the area under the torque graph was WAY above standard everywhere.
The K04 turbo simply can't move enough air to keep the boost up at very high levels...but it can still make much more power and torque than standard at all points of the rev range.

 

[Ess_Three]

With regard to accurate rollers, I like using Star Performance.
I've tried many cars on there:
My S3 made 208 BHP/199 lb-ft standard
My 911 made 319 BHP / 273 lb-ft standard
My GTI Golf made 151 BHP / 133 lb-ft standard
A lupo GTI of an ex made 126 BHP standard (can't remember the torque)
So it's proven to be accurate against manufacturers quoted figures over the last 8 years or so I've been using them.

If it reads accutately when the car's standard...the gains would seem to be accurate too, in my view.

 

[inigoj]

If you want high torque get a TDI.

There are 1.9 TDI's around pushing out 500+nm (370lb/ft)

Some of the newer large 'sportier' lumps can give over 1000lb/ft with a little tinkering.

 

[skydiver]

Thanks for the info guys, you have confirmed what I had thought really. It makes me laugh when you see people posting high torque figures on std cars. I assumed it was due to the tuners manipulating the figures on "dodgy" rollers.

As you say ess three its good to get the car on reliable accurate rollers.

Cheers

 

[craig_007]

Ess_Three,
Regarding the map on your old S3,was it a custom map done at star.My car was mapped by Jim before I bought it and is currently running 260bhp 263 lbf-ft.I just wonder if he still remembers how he set yours up.I fancy running a little more torque,300 would be good.The last time I spoke to Jim he didn't think it would be a good idea to increase low down torque as it would lose at the topend then ????

 

[Ess_Three]

Ess_Three,
Regarding the map on your old S3,was it a custom map done at star.

No, it wasn't a Star map...it was written by Mitchell Symonds at APR Europe just before APR Europe went pear shaped and he set up REVO...and I know it was development code...but on an APR platform.

My car was mapped by Jim before I bought it and is currently running 260bhp 263 lbf-ft.I just wonder if he still remembers how he set yours up.

All Jim did with mine was upload the map to the EMCS board.

I fancy running a little more torque,300 would be good.The last time I spoke to Jim he didn't think it would be a good idea to increase low down torque as it would lose at the topend then ????

I can't see why it would loose top end...it may feel like it was weak at the top, because the midrange was so much stronger, but I can't see how the top end will suffer, as long as you have decent intercooling...as the inlet charge temperature will rocket if you really crank the peak boost right up.

 

[ChriS3]

The last time I spoke to Jim he didn't think it would be a good idea to increase low down torque as it would lose at the topend then ????

Don't forget that Jim is hyper-pedantic about smooth maps. He won't give you a boost spike, and you need that for that kind of torque figure.

 

[craig_007]

Don't forget that Jim is hyper-pedantic about smooth maps. He won't give you a boost spike, and you need that for that kind of torque figure.

Cheers Chris,
Any idea who I can use for this set up then,Jim was the first person that came to mind as he's local !!!!