Cannot rotate engine, hard lock / clunk at 80% rotation on crank.

[Rainbird]

Do you do much inside the runners themselves, Bill?

I seem to recall a FB post from Max Clesca discussing one he'd done, and he'd put together a flex-hone type tool to get inside where you couldn't usually reach. Seems like a good idea to open them up a touch if possible given the size at the head flange, but then again if you can't make things consistent then it's not quite so simple!

 

[Stuart B]

oh you an absolute star Bill thanks a lot, I was thinking about using a die of sorts to start with to match up the ports with the head and the hot side with the collector then work in from both ends of each direction. maybe with aluminium grinders and a flexible drill bit, they wear down quite quickly but managed to grind down a seized manifold to turbo bolt head in order to split the turbo and manifold.

 

[Stuart B]

Do you do much inside the runners themselves, Bill?

I seem to recall a FB post from Max Clesca discussing one he'd done, and he'd put together a flex-hone type tool to get inside where you couldn't usually reach. Seems like a good idea to open them up a touch if possible given the size at the head flange, but then again if you can't make things consistent then it's not quite so simple!

This is on a stock manifold but looks to be opened up quite a bit and a cool looking tool from "total recall" circa 1980s? - https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1204890

 

[badger5]

Do you do much inside the runners themselves, Bill?

I seem to recall a FB post from Max Clesca discussing one he'd done, and he'd put together a flex-hone type tool to get inside where you couldn't usually reach. Seems like a good idea to open them up a touch if possible given the size at the head flange, but then again if you can't make things consistent then it's not quite so simple!

runners, and access to them are not readily accessible so no.. just the ends and what you can see.
Given our lupo and other high power k04-380 cars run this setup, the runners are adequate once you open up the problem areas port matching stuff, which is essentially what anyone who's trying to build a good setup should be doing anyhow.. Not just chucking stuff together which is the norm.

 

[badger5]

This is on a stock manifold but looks to be opened up quite a bit and a cool looking tool from "total recall" circa 1980s? - https://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1204890

flex hones I bought in when first doing the chinafolds 4/5 years ago but they barely touch the cast stainless.
They may remove more from softer oe runners, but dont work on the chinafolds.

 

[Stuart B]

so for the collector->hotside just going to use a gasket and open them both up whilst the turbo is split and copy your example for the polish, and will see what a stock gasket is like on the head as the exhaust ports on the head are about 33.5mm the chinafold 32.6mm and the stock manifold 38.3mm - the stock ones must be so big because of alignment? or should I consider opening the exhaust ports on the head too?

what I have noticed is how tight this is going to be the to top inner downpipe bolt I had better make sure that is done up tight as I doubt I will ever reach it after the head is back on.

 

[Stuart B]

I have a new sump and Dirko sealant to put on tomorrow - I was sure you were supposed to make a gasket the day before or is it that you just shouldn't put oil in the next day (lol) when I searched all I found was prawn arguing with someone in 2010 . I will have a check through TCGs thread as I think he needed to make a gasket the night before

 

[hydro s3]

I got a new sump put on a few weeks ago and they put the gasket on with the sump.but no oil till nxt day to let the gasket dry.

 

[Stuart B]

that must have been a careful drive home :O - so essentially I put on the stuff then fit the sump ( I dont need to worry about oil for a month or two )

just borrowing next doors torque wrench, I have done up my rod's stretch bolts twice at 55ft_lb /75nm but just want a second opinion in case mine is out, as I put in piston 3 today but it didn't feel as tight to get to 75nm

 

[S3AMJ]

just borrowing next doors torque wrench, I have done up my rod's stretch bolts twice at 55ft_lb /75nm but just want a second opinion in case mine is out, as I put in piston 3 today but it didn't feel as tight to get to 75nm

Your just getting stronger Stu!


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[hydro s3]

I just waited till mid day the nxt day a nd went and got it. Never really thought of driving carefully thinking about it.

 

[superkarl]

so for the collector->hotside just going to use a gasket and open them both up whilst the turbo is split and copy your example for the polish, and will see what a stock gasket is like on the head as the exhaust ports on the head are about 33.5mm the chinafold 32.6mm and the stock manifold 38.3mm - the stock ones must be so big because of alignment? or should I consider opening the exhaust ports on the head too?

what I have noticed is how tight this is going to be the to top inner downpipe bolt I had better make sure that is done up tight as I doubt I will ever reach it after the head is back on.

The ports on the manifold are larger than the head ports to stop exhaust gas reversion back into the cylinder. All about managing flow and fluid pressures


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[Stuart B]

arh okay thanks - so it is important to duplicate the current set-up, it's not really port matching from head to manifold here.

eg

this is okay

and not

 

[Stuart B]

well I'm crossing my fingers, those nightmare last two bolts on the sump - I hope it doesn't leak..

also fitted the powerflex dog bone from my s3

 

[hydro s3]

Slowly but surely your getting there. Will having that different rod matter or as long as the weight is the same will it be fine?

 

[Stuart B]

There's no different rod - I see what you're looking at, you can only see one big end in that photo. They are all new pec rifle drilled forged, I had to buy a replacement ring set, they were all new but I broke one, my biggest worry is whether they are all gapped corrected.

 

[hydro s3]

O right sorry my mistake.

 

[ADs3]

Stuart something you might want to be aware of when it comes to porting your chinafold is the port runners might still have crap along the walls from the casting.
Some of it you'll be able take off when you start porting but some is just unreachable and it's it's not easily scrapped or chipped off, I found using my blow lamp with map gas (burns hotter) heated up the runners enough for some of it to fall away itself and the rest I took of with a flat headed screw driver against it ........I wasn't happy with the porting job that was done on my chinafold so I've done it myself (No professional) buy allot happier with how it's looking.
I've added a pic to show some of the crap that if isn't removed and once the manifold is hot could pass through your turbo wrecking your new chra.
You might of thought of this already or might not but just thought I'd say now to save any dramas later hopefully.

 

[Stuart B]

thanks a lot - I will look into that, it does look like some flakes of coating of sorts has come off - no-one wants that going through the new turbine do they.

 

[badger5]

View attachment 167430 Stuart something you might want to be aware of when it comes to porting your chinafold is the port runners might still have **** along the walls from the casting.
Some of it you'll be able take off when you start porting but some is just unreachable and it's it's not easily scrapped or chipped off, I found using my blow lamp with map gas (burns hotter) heated up the runners enough for some of it to fall away itself and the rest I took of with a flat headed screw driver against it ........I wasn't happy with the porting job that was done on my chinafold so I've done it myself (No professional) buy allot happier with how it's looking.
I've added a pic to show some of the **** that if isn't removed and once the manifold is hot could pass through your turbo wrecking your new chra.
You might of thought of this already or might not but just thought I'd say now to save any dramas later hopefully.

not enough taken out of runner #4

 

[ADs3]

not enough taken out of runner #4

Bill are you talking about this section on the return for runner #4.....I had looked at this and wondered if I should be removing more?

 

[badger5]

Bill are you talking about this section on the return for runner #4.....I had looked at this and wondered if I should be removing more?

yes. we removed a lot of that to open it up

 

[ADs3]

yes. we removed a lot of that to open it up

Cheers Bill i appreciate you sharing your knowledge.........with the work involved I can see why you now only offer these with the aet package!

 

[badger5]

Cheers Bill i appreciate you sharing your knowledge.........with the work involved I can see why you now only offer these with the aet package!

yea, utter pia are'nt they!

 

[Stuart B]

so got my gaskets today on first view it doesn't look like the hot side needs touching, and then on a closer look through the photo may 0.5 mm.

so I will scrape off a tiny bit from the hot side to match the gasket before constructing the Hybrid K04 and fitting to the car.

does anyone know a source for protective caps for the Compressor Housing "In" and "Out" rather than a bag for life and lacky bands?

 

[hydro s3]

If it covers them then that should be good enough.
If ur reassembling the turbo to go back on the car are you near ready for 1st start of the rebuilt engine?

 

[Stuart B]

dont be ridiculous, this weekend I am putting back the starter and battery tray etc

this month the hybrid turbo fitted

November - next month the head
new exhaust valves
lapped valves
head gasket kit for stem seals
new cam bolt
head reconstruction
fit head and timing belt

December - sh*t myself for a first start

December - take back apart to find the faults. <-- lol

 

[Stuart B]

is a 15psi uprated actuator too high for a K04 hybrid setup? I am more concerned about the running in phase running on actuator only, I can keep my current map which is pretty generous with fuelling to start creating logs and see what's going on? or would I be better off sticking with the stock actuator to start with?

 

[badger5]

be ok, n75 unplugged and stay off the loud pedal, and keep eye on things.. timing, fueling etc

 

[ADs3]

yes. we removed a lot of that to open it up

Bill would you say #4 is opened up sufficiently now?

sorry Stuart no wanting to jack your thread just hoping Bill can make my life allot happier by saying it's good enough lol

 

[Stuart B]

Bill would you say #4 is opened up sufficiently now?View attachment 167725 sorry Stuart no wanting to jack your thread just hoping Bill can make my life allot happier by saying it's good enough lol

not at all, it's all good to get the expert advice out of the experts I will need the same hints and tips for mine..


Thanks for the advice regarding the 15psi actuator Bill

 

[ADs3]

It's not a job I'd like to repeat again, it's very time consuming & all in all just a horrible job to do.
If you have a bench mounted vice & preferably one that swivels it's going to help so you can get at it from different angles but you just can't get at it all frustratingly.
You probably can see how much needs to be taken out but just wait till it comes to actually porting it! It's hard going & will test your patience I guarantee it mate.......maybe have Samaritans on speed dial to talk you down lol

 

[Stuart B]

I'm all good - I managed to remove 1 of the manifold / turbo bolts it's just that (times 10)

 

[Stuart B]

So looking to press my turbo together this week, I am thinking about practising with the old chra.

I am going to use the sump sealant on the compressor housing.

My biggest concern is the alignment of the hotside and compressor housing as I stupidly didn't mark the old chra. Is it just a matter of looking at pictures to try and get this correctly aligned. The hot side is pretty easy to get 'about' right, but obviously if the compressor housing is out by 1mm that ends up as 10mm at the outlet.

Any tricks or tips?

 

[<tuffty/>]

So looking to press my turbo together this week, I am thinking about practising with the old chra.

I am going to use the sump sealant on the compressor housing.

My biggest concern is the alignment of the hotside and compressor housing as I stupidly didn't mark the old chra. Is it just a matter of looking at pictures to try and get this correctly aligned. The hot side is pretty easy to get 'about' right, but obviously if the compressor housing is out by 1mm that ends up as 10mm at the outlet.

Any tricks or tips?

If you don't get it quite right then the coolant and oil lines won't go on right so I'd do a dry assembly with those...

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

I reckon I can get the oil and water lines and the downpipe relatively easily positioned, as the turbo is going on this month my worry is having the compressor housing in the wrong place only noticed whilst trying the head and manifold into position.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Comp housing can be zero'd in using the oil feed... oil feed will sit where it sits on the CHRA... it has a tab/bracket that bolts to the comp housing determining the comp cover position and this will then help sort position in the hotside...

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

thanks tuffty, I will put it together loosely with the existing chra and see how it looks naturally along with the downpipe connected - then do this with the new one and new actuator which feels a lot stiffer than 3 times the old one, I can hardly move it using my hands pulling it - whereas I can pull the old one out quite easily :|

 

[tcg]

Stuart,are there any photos I could take of my old ko4 that would give you an idea?

I wouldn't want to split it but if any would help let me know.

 

[Stuart B]

thanks for the offer - I have had a look at a few online, I have put my old one back to try it out - as tuffty pointed out the compressor to CHRA can only fit one way so I need to try and align the oil drain on the CHRA with the two bolts around that area from the hot side.

eg

I reckon the hotside needs rotating anti clockwise a tiny bit 5-10 degrees to align the bolts with the bolt holes and the support bracket aligned with the lowest point (oil drain) of the CHRA