Cannot rotate engine, hard lock / clunk at 80% rotation on crank.

[<tuffty/>]

Sump sealant is fine

Nothing to do with oil pressure... its to prevent leaks

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

Main gasket hole - the diameter of the large bore from mani into turbo. Might just be the photos but it doesn't look like you've opened it up much, compared to the image S3AMJ posted.

IIRC Bill opens these up to 48mm/similar.

Yeah but isn't s3amj going gasketless, the hole in the turbo (apart from having to re-port the Chinese rubbish alignment) and the manifold are both the same as the gasket if i open it up the gasket won't work.

 

[S3AMJ]

Yeah but isn't s3amj going gasketless, the hole in the turbo (apart from having to re-port the Chinese rubbish alignment) and the manifold are both the same as the gasket if i open it up the gasket won't work.

Im not sure how Bill runs the hybrids weather they are gasketless or not bud. As long as your openings match... that’s your aim. Bills one might be bigger because it’s a hybrid turbo as apposed to your standard k04. Someone else in the know could confirm this.... I think your biggest mission is to clear the guts out of the collector to prevent the misfiring that PT was explaining.


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[Stuart B]

Yeah I have continued to open this up, I have actually opened the collector mani/turbo port a tiny bit to ensure if the gasket is not exactly central the opening is not interfered, also I am ordering 80mm studs as 70mm are too short.

 

[badger5]

why using studs not bolts. you will regret this

 

[badger5]

Im not sure how Bill runs the hybrids weather they are gasketless or not bud. As long as your openings match... that’s your aim. Bills one might be bigger because it’s a hybrid turbo as apposed to your standard k04. Someone else in the know could confirm this.... I think your biggest mission is to clear the guts out of the collector to prevent the misfiring that PT was explaining.


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ours is indeed gasketless, and its bigger to increase flow, reduce back pressure, which still is a good thing on any k04, hybrid or not.

cyl 1/2 sharing is its inherant jbs design fault. cyl looses out and misfires were the outcome. put effort into opening up these ports in to the collector (easier when its a larger collector!) - this investment in time rewards

 

[Stuart B]

why using studs not bolts. you will regret this

Grrr... thanks Bill, I assumed 70mm studs + nordlock washers and copper flashed self locking nuts, was the route. I can see a 70mm bolt would fit okay and also you cannot remove the manifold with the studs in place as the compressor housing gets in the way (so studs are bound to seize etc) I will get some more.. is A2 / 304 stainless good enough.


Thanks as always.

 

[badger5]

Grrr... thanks Bill, I assumed 70mm studs + nordlock washers and copper flashed self locking nuts, was the route. I can see a 70mm bolt would fit okay and also you cannot remove the manifold with the studs in place as the compressor housing gets in the way (so studs are bound to seize etc) I will get some more.. is A2 / 304 stainless good enough.


Thanks as always.

thats what we use yes. A2/A4 stainless M10 x 70 bolts with nordlock washers

 

[Stuart B]

Well I at least have something to do when x-factor is on

 

[Stuart B]

So before committing to connecting it all back up again, are these cams aligned. '16 rollers between' doesn't feel like this is it. Annoyingly I don't think they were quite right after using the vice to put on the cam pully bolt. And when picking them up today the VVT fell out so I am trying to align them.

 

[Stuart B]

Meh... Well it looks same as the original.

Original

New

 

[<tuffty/>]

You need to make sure the top tensioner pad is at its highest point when the marks line up... if its 16 rollers with the tensioner down then chances are it will be a roller out

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

It actually looks more like 15 rollers between one roller appears on the mark and the other after the mark.
If you compare my before I started and now pictures apart from the chain links in a different orientation the positions look the same. The arrows on the bearing caps are not in line with the marks on the cam. They are both closer to the outside.

I will have a quick skim through Ian's thread as I think he put his cam on one roller out. And had a couple of pictures.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Hold the exhaust cam on the mark, roll the inlet cam back towards the exhaust cam until you cannot rotate anymore... the tensioners top pad will be as extended as it can be then... if you have got it right then the inlet cam will be aligned to its mark

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

Thanks, I will give it a go. Sounds much easier than trying to juggle it all on a soft grip g-clamp

 

[Stuart B]

okay, so I cannot turn back the inlet cam the bolt just undoes? I will check the torque and add some Loctite.

but this is a video of the cams turning over (at least no valves broke this time ) is the cam chain adjuster supposed to lift and drop so much? or is it because there is no oil in the engine and it is not connected?

http://freesomes.co.uk/ttstuff/turningover.mp4

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ah... OK... Forgot std cam's don't have flats lol... OK... Line the inlet cam up instead then roll the exhaust towards the inlet side... Will achieve the same thing

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

also this is the spacing.

 

[badger5]

okay, so I cannot turn back the inlet cam the bolt just undoes? I will check the torque and add some Loctite.

but this is a video of the cams turning over (at least no valves broke this time ) is the cam chain adjuster supposed to lift and drop so much? or is it because there is no oil in the engine and it is not connected?

http://freesomes.co.uk/ttstuff/turningover.mp4

indeed yes. no oil to damp movement so its all springs vs cam lobes

 

[Stuart B]

thanks Bill - that's encouraging.

thanks Tuffty - I will try again using a spanner instead so it doesn't flick over

 

[Stuart B]

So marks are aligned after holding inlet and winding exhaust forward.

I think this is correct, but I have made so many mistakes I'm not sure I trust it..

 

[<tuffty/>]

If the tensioner is as high as it will go then it looks about right from the pics mate

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

Thanks Tuffty.. although painful - it is not the end of the world if it needs to be adjusted on the head.

Well, finally I think I am ready to fit the head back on.. I did rotate the head maybe 10 times during various tests so fingers crossed the springs, stem seals, collets et'al are all good

stopped with the chinafold now too - I used some grinding past on aluminium oxide stones in addition to the carbide drill bits - works quite well.

I got some spring clips for the vacuum and PCV pipes - its the typical thing that you can buy 6 for a quid or 100 for a fiver
So if anyone needs some clips I can do 6 for a quid

 

[Stuart B]

Torquing down my head tomorrow (if its not raining, and putting first lot of oil in.

I'm considering filling oil with cam cover off to give the components a bit of a head start.

I'm on a bit of a time constraint as want it run in before MOT due and want to know if it works before insurance is due.

 

[RobinJI]

I think it's fairly normal practice to fill the engine the first time with the rocker cover off, pouring the oil all over the cams and letting it drain, then fitting the sealing/fitting the cover after. That should help ensure all the top end is well oiled, and if assembly lube (or at least a load of oil) has been used when putting it together you'll have done all you can. As you mentioned earlier, I'd turn it by hand a few times, then crank it a few times with the injectors disconnected first too.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Stuart B]

arrgghh
well this is annoying.

haynes states 40 NM + 90 degree + 90 degree

but what is this on my elring document?

I really dont think I will manage the second 90 degree turn - is it really 40NM then 60NM then 90 degree + 90 degree (to reach the 60NM that was a quarter turn from 40NM)

thoughts before I commit to another 90 degree turn? that will be really tight, might need a breaker bar!

 

[<tuffty/>]

40nm (go around twice), 60nm (go around twice), 90 + 90

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

thanks Tuffy so just to clarify (I know you wrote it already)

40NM (1- 10 twice)
60NM (1-10 twice)
90 degree (1-10)
90 degree (1-10)


obviously I missed out on the twice for the torque settings (to ensure they are rated exactly) already but what I did is continue 90 degree past the 60NM click.

so one more 90 degree turn?

 

[badger5]

arrgghh
well this is annoying.

haynes states 40 NM + 90 degree + 90 degree

but what is this on my elring document?

I really dont think I will manage the second 90 degree turn - is it really 40NM then 60NM then 90 degree + 90 degree (to reach the 60NM that was a quarter turn from 40NM)

View attachment 170438

thoughts before I commit to another 90 degree turn? that will be really tight, might need a breaker bar!

it is what elring say it is..
i would'nt be taking haynes manual over the bolt suppliers instructions. and yes, 2nd 90' is tight as....

 

[Stuart B]

Thanks Bill and Tuffty.

 

[<tuffty/>]

gl dude...

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

so that was easy enough with a 3 foot bar, just shaking at the end we'll see in a few days I suppose

 

[<tuffty/>]

Last turn always feels nasty... its the same feeling you get when you have overtightened a bolt and it feels like its either going to shear or pull the threads out

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

Yeah I am assuming it is like a final stretch, unnerving.

My main concern is not rolling round twice for each of the 40 and 60, but if the head gasket goes because of this I am not really going to fear it, as I am finally rid of the stock manifold and e14 /e16 heads.

 

[badger5]

so that was easy enough with a 3 foot bar, just shaking at the end we'll see in a few days I suppose

they feel terrible on that second 90 dont they...feel the stretch

 

[Stuart B]

well completed a couple of things today I might do some more after the F1 race -maybe check the timing and pull the grenade pin or fit the intake.

got a little lost with the 70mm bolts I needed to cut them down to about 62mm which makes sense really as the 70mm studs were poking out. it maybe the Chinese hot side is not as deep?

I also added the sealant to the corners and put on the new cam cover gasket - I think that is supposed to be left to dry.

my biggest challenge is I think the MOT is running out soon and I need to reinsure in December so I need it running and then run-in so that I can get it MOT'd as they needed to rev the nuts off my S3 to get the sports CAT hot enough.

 

[S3AMJ]

well completed a couple of things today I might do some more after the F1 race -maybe check the timing and pull the grenade pin or fit the intake.

got a little lost with the 70mm bolts I needed to cut them down to about 62mm which makes sense really as the 70mm studs were poking out. it maybe the Chinese hot side is not as deep?

I also added the sealant to the corners and put on the new cam cover gasket - I think that is supposed to be left to dry.

my biggest challenge is I think the MOT is running out soon and I need to reinsure in December so I need it running and then run-in so that I can get it MOT'd as they needed to rev the nuts off my S3 to get the sports CAT hot enough.

View attachment 170609 View attachment 170610

Well done dude! It’s all coming together... I’m gonna get my car MOT’d before I get it over to bills. Purely for the same reason, fresh engine and revving it for a long period. Not a good combo


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[Stuart B]

yeah, I wasn't left with that choice it's quite quiet around here so I could probably do some local driving and maybe pop into the MOT place and ask their advice (eg hint wink donor car?) or my problem with the S3 was more related to the dipstick popping out.

I am still not 100% convinced it'll even run - and I essentially end up with £1200 worth of new parts and 30 hours of learning on my drive

even when it is running I will need some extra support for the exhaust I have not yet sorted

 

[superkarl]

You need to find a friendlier MOT station to be honest.
I booked my mot the day I started mine and the drive there and back was the first stage of my running in.

 

[hydro s3]

I wish it was that easy over here to get a friendly mot. I read that all the time on places "Just find a mot place that takes beer tokens"