Cannot rotate engine, hard lock / clunk at 80% rotation on crank.

Stuart B

Registered User
Thanks Alan, isn't that what the rings are for? Was this carbon seal on two stroke engines?

I hoping Bill will throw in a couple of bits from his spare parts bin when I get round to buying rods etc... :whistle2: ;) so want to get the pistons cleaned and weighed.
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
You popping up to Badger5 to collect?

<tuffty/>
 

Alan999

Registered User
Thanks Alan, isn't that what the rings are for? Was this carbon seal on two stroke engines?

I hoping Bill will throw in a couple of bits from his spare parts bin when I get round to buying rods etc... :whistle2: ;) so want to get the pistons cleaned and weighed.
2-stroke but also told to leave it on a diesel engine too....then again that was a dumper...or may have been the old "go find a long stand" scenario.
A few avid watchers of this thread from work too...good stuff
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Hi Alan,
lol nothing good from this thread apart from en-forced pain through stupidity and hams for fists - although it is the only way forward - I was pretty much at the end of normal modifications for a stock engine and the only way is forward.

Hi Tuffty,
I think I should as I know that Bill only deals in cash, gold and pokemon transfers - We are supposed to be going to Dartmoor before the Cotswolds on a short break, so maybe able to do a drive through although my wife was pretty annoyed waiting outside the TTShop whilst I was getting some quotes when I first betrayed the S3 for TT :D :D

Once I have sorted out the local head repair whatnot's - I will get together the bottom end requirements and get in touch. I still keep telling myself everything I have done so far is free, but I have run out of free things to do now.

I had a bad dream last night about the wind blowing sh'ite all over the now exposed crank shaft - so will be taping a bin liner over that later..
 

Stuart B

Registered User
so this was easy - two simple spring clips and tap the wrist pin out with a 14mm long socket.

pistons_wristpin.png

Pretty sure new rods dont include wrist pins so I had better look after these ;)
 

Stuart B

Registered User
cool, just looking for somewhere to stay :) and time it right..

"imagine" if I wanted Rifle Drilled PEC Rods (I-Beam or H-Beam - not sure of the difference or best fit; I know they are not IE but 15% cheaper), standard rings and big end bearings - would they normally have a waiting time - I'm sure Badger5 site used to have an expected availability time on his old shop? I need to commit to a short-break/wife-bribe - the countryside is lovely in the Cotswolds there'll be somewhere nice :)

it'll be good for a chat as I was considering a slightly different turbo 370 as it fits a V3TIP - but I'm not sure whether it's worth Bills effort to supply versus the 380.
 

Stuart B

Registered User
So dropped off the head to be repaired about 100 quid for weld repair and skim, it'll be a couple of weeks though as he is pretty busy.
 

Stuart B

Registered User
grr cant really get down to Gloucester (this is causing issues at home, so I have to keep my head down) - so just an online order this time. pec rifle drilled rods + rings + big end bearings I am hoping that's all the correct stuff to get together.

Hopefully Bill will remember to chuck in a second hand piston 80.95 (mine weighs 303g or 414g with wrist pin and spring clips, I doubt balancing will make much difference at my level) - what would be excellent is if an old inlet valve fell into the box too ;)

When I get the head back I need to consider Inconel exhaust valves as anyone with 300+ seems to be replacing stock with these - is that a precaution or a standard process?

I still have it in my head that a AET370 and a chinafold is the way I want to go - but I financially fear it is going to be more expensive than B5 AET380 setup. what I dont understand is why AET have two prices with or without an actuator? are Turbos sold often without an actuator, or do they come with a stock one, but for the extra £200 you can have a turbo smart one?
 

Stuart B

Registered User
grr cant really, get down to Gloucester (this is causing issues at home, so I have to keep my head down) - so just an online order this time. pec rifle drilled rods + rings + big end bearings I am hoping that's all the correct stuff to get together.

Hopefully Bill will remember to chuck in a second hand piston 80.95 (mine weighs 303g or 414g with wrist pin and spring clips, I doubt balancing will make much difference at my level) - what would be excellent is if an old inlet valve fell into the box too ;)

When I get the head back I need to consider Inconel exhaust valves as anyone with 300+ seems to be replacing stock with these - is that a precaution or a standard process?

I still have it in my head that a AET370 and a chinafold is the way I want to go - but I financially fear it is going to be more expensive than B5 AET380 setup. what I dont understand is why AET have two prices with or without an actuator? are Turbos sold often without an actuator, or do they come with a stock one, but for the extra £200 you can have a turbo smart one?
 

Stuart B

Registered User
not much happened really, I have a ring compressor and fitting pliers, have the rods on order from B5, painted the inlet and cam cover - I may try and clean up the engine whilst nothing is in the way this weekend and order the 19mm ID silicon for the breather system deletion. I suppose I should take advantage of good access, eg paint the front brake calipers, paint the engine - I will speak to my neighbour about the potential of properly heli-coiling the sump versus buying new.

I do need new turbo oil pipes - so if anyone has any bright ideas for getting these that'll be great.
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
What’s up with the oil pipes?


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Stuart B

Registered User
I couldn't under the turbo to manifold bolts so removed the turbo, manifold and head altogether and have damaged the oil feed pipe whilst removing the manifold from the head, in actual fact they may still all joined together in a freezer bag in the den.

it might actually only be the bracket ?
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Yey, rods are due to be delivered on Monday, Thanks Bill :)
Ordered a new sump and sealant, will clean the block.
Ordered some 19mm silicon for the catch can fitment.
Need to order the correct tool for the arp2000 bolts.

Now need to study the guide for fitment of the rods to ensure no issues.

I might try and remove turbo from manifold and split it. And consider keeping it with a hybrid chra?
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Hahahaha you’re nuts


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Stuart B

Registered User
I own you...….!!!!!!!! but I wanted to finish the 3 hours drilling and grinding with a high point, so I will try and extract your stud tomorrow.

did anyone die from inhaling aluminium dust from grinding tools - my teeth still feel in pain.

weird the insert looks slightly raised that had better not be an issue.


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
weird the insert looks slightly raised that had better not be an issue.
Yes... it will be if left... gasket won't sit flush and will blow...

See this all the time tbh... normally down to a tight bolt and the insert will wind out a little when someone tries to crack it off... the insert then cracks off instead winding it out a bit until it hits the mani where the bolt generally releases and undoes...

Just need to make sure they are wound back in if refitting

<tuffty/>
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Are they aftermarket wrist pins?


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Stuart B

Registered User
no.... well not as far as I know, they were silver albeit slightly warn in two lines when removed from the car. I assume they are no good now? what on earth would they have a coating that diet coke dissolves, or it has reacted to something and turned black, the thing is Karl I reckon the pistons might be past their best as there was a slight well where the wrist pin was maybe rotating slightly - will try and get a photo up for opinions.

1 step forward though is the sump, gasket and the socket kit which supports the ARP2000 bolts arrived today. and I have "partially" deconstructed the turbo (the cold side seems difficult to remove from the CHRA - so I will find a video in case there is a safe knack to it).

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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Strange!
I would have thought if the clearances check out they’d be ok.
I think I know what you’re referring to re the pistons, and it’s normal.

Never removed the compressor cover on a KO4 but they’re usually held on by a large circlip


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Stuart B

Registered User
blimey, I am going to try and make purist green next :D :D (ref black adder 2 circa 1984?) so essentially, I have converted some form of powder coating. well I will check them with a micrometre and see if they might be okay, I have seen some for sale black too.

of course I have split the turbo into it's 3 parts without scoring them, so when I put it back together I'll need to make sure it's properly aligned (can't be that difficult - but will be a nightmare if the hot side and CHRA are out, but the snail is easy to loosen and rotate.

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Stuart B

Registered User
so I didn't "submerge" my hydrolic tappets after stripping the head - can I simply dip them in engine oil for a few minutes before fitting?

they have a tiny hole and are supposed to contain oil, but I have separated them into different compartments along with their collets and springs so dont want to fill that up with engine oil unless necessary?
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
No need... just lube and fit... you will need to leave them at least 30mins to settle before fitting the head as they can jack up but as long as they are lubed on assembly they will survive first start

Its advised that you unplug the injectors and turn the engine over a few times to get the oil round it after a rebuild like this

<tuffty/>
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Thanks Tuffty, I have fitted the new rings to the pistons I have ready and the gas ring (with the internal ring) feels really iffy the writing is so small on the instructions I am having to zoom in with my phone, I assume there is nothing special to do with the inner ring, and just be cautious when using a compressor to make sure it's all aligned? it just feels like the inner ring is too big - but it obviously isn't.



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Stuart B

Registered User
so much more to do, received the ASH 19mm silicon hose for the PCV delete and catch-can yesterday.

still undecided on hybrid turbo and manifold though?

Fitted a temporary CV boot earlier today - we'll see how long this lasts.


all of this is pointless without the bottom end constructed, turbo fitted, and head with manifold fitted etc. slowly slowly catch the monkey
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
The rings need to be gapped. You need to measure them at the bottom, middle and top of you bore and gap them accordingly. I don’t have the recommended gaps off the top of my head (there are lots of specs and theories depending on who you ask).


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Stuart B

Registered User
okay so can someone please check my estimates / calculations regarding the file fit ring gaps - I will revise them once I have a squaring tool but just am a tiny unsure of the maths?

I have used what I presume is a "fast road turbo engine setup"

TOP - .0050" x bore
2ND - .0055" x bore
OIL - as delivered?

cylinder bore is 3.18 inch
piston is 3.16 inch

TOP - .0050 x 3.18 = 0.0159
2ND - .0055 x 3.18 = 0.0175
so essentially 0.0159 and 0.0175 - inches?

converted to mm for my feeler gauge? (goes down to 0.05mm)

TOP = (0.0159 * 25.4) = 0.40386mm - so 0.40mm
2ND = (0.0175 * 25.4) = 0.4445mm - so 0.45mm

on a test ring (without using a squaring tool) the gap was 0.35mm so if that was the real case I would need to remove 0.05mm.

Do I need to measure each cylinder bore 1-4 and recalculate or would any difference be insignificant, I realise I need to "file fit" each ring into the cylinders 1-4 to ensure I obtain the exact gaps.

it's such a tiny variance - it feels like I am wrong?

Also is it essential or just good practice to check the ring gap at both the bottom and top of the cylinder, and I assume adjust the gap to the smallest reading?

if it is literally one twentieth of a mm can I just use a small file or do I still need to use a electric grinder or similar?

Thanks for any advise :)

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S3 Hilife

It's an addiction
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
We worked to the same measurement, bore x .0050” Top and bore x .0055” middle and nothing from the bottom set. Also make sure your ring gaps are in the correct orientation before putting the pistons into the bores. We made a costly mistake when filing one of the rings down and accidentally went very slightly over with the gap which meant having to buy another full set of rings for £100 so just do it a little at a time and keep checking often. It’s time consuming and very repetitive lol
 
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Stuart B

Registered User
Do these measurements mean a beginner like me doesn't need to make these exact settings of 0.40mm and 0.45mm.
I'm looking for a reliable bit of fun, not 5bhp more at the risk of making precision mistakes.

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