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Bobby Singh A4 3.0 TDI build thread

bobby singh Jul 14, 2015

  1. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    14/7/15 - Introduction

    Well it’s been a while since selling my Golf ARL. Those that are aware will know it made over 300hp from mixture of custom made parts when no 2260 kits were available.
    So the new project car is Audi A4 3.0TDI estate (CCWA engine code) - 240hp model auto (TIP) - I didn't want a manual. The auto box has reported torque limit of 700nm.
    Decided on a B8 simply because the early ones suffered from injector failure causing engine damage and they don't come with the 2260 as stock.

    Even though the car came with full Audi history the air filter is in a poor state looks like they've changed only the oil and filter the last few times.
    First action plan is to service it soon and ask my cousin @ teamspb to give it a detail.

    Here are some pics

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Good news I don't think anyone has been in there
    [​IMG]

    The famous 2260

    [​IMG]

    Inside

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
    A4AllroadS, V6 Quatt, Chop. and 5 others like this.
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  3. Bristle Hound

    Bristle Hound Moderator Staff Member Moderator MQB Platform

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    Nice A4 Avant Bobby! :thumbs up:

    Watching your thread with interest
     
  4. hilly

    hilly Active Member

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    looks nice mate,but you might have your wires crossed. its the manual gearbox which is rated at 800nm and the tip box is good for about 700nm
     
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  5. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    :cower:
     
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  6. austin21

    austin21 New Member

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    Bobby I've done the very same thing earlier this year.
    Know how good your golf was I'll be watching this with great interest!
     
  7. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Even with 700nm they are pretty quick whem tuned. What spec turbo you will go for hybrid or some other exotica ? I would love a gtb3576klnvr, ball bearing turbo...
     
  8. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Thanks mate - been wanting one for a while but finding time to do my own stuff is difficult

    I understand the manual box can take more however i don't fancy my chances with stock clutch(s) @ 800nm. And be honest I'm becoming a old fart so auto box suits me better. The other thing is I know there is upgrade path for the tip to handle 1000nm :)

    Cheers buddy - I'll be doing upgrades in stages just to see what is possible. I want to drive it for a period of time inbetween each stage to ensure everything holds together.

    Hi Chris - hope you are well.
    I'll be staying away from the hybrid 2260 mate its pretty common. Also, pushing the unit above 370hp is difficult due to the exhaust housing. BB unit would be nice but the 3576 is very rare unit with a nice price tag.


    I had some time yesterday so attempted to read the ecu, but failed to get a read out.
    Further digging has shown that software 0006 is boot mode only - basically ecu out job on the bench.
    I'll tackle that on the weekend.

    [​IMG]

    Managed to repair the motor on the fuel flap though apparently a common problem on these.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  9. Buxton2901

    Buxton2901 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bobby, looks like a really nice motor.
    can I ask how u fixed the fuel cap problem, im having the same thing on my 2.7tdi
     
  10. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Thanks - So i removed the motor and on a bench psu set the voltage to 12v and gave it 3amps - I could see current being drawn. I then opened it up (the clips will break but its not a issue still seals fine) and clean the connection with contact cleaner put it all back togather - job done.

    They are not so expensive and I was will to try a repair.
     
  11. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    Welcome to Audi-sport.net, Nice choice of car :) .I have read about the Golf on many threads when I was mapping and playing with my 1.9TDI Passat.
    I am currently playing with a hybrid on my car, hopefully have it sorted and mapped soon.Currently running on the remap for the standard turbo.
    Mine is a manual and currently running with 720Nm probably closer to 750Nm when running the WMI and I have no issues. There are plenty of people in Europe running more, but I believe that somewhere around 820-850Nm is where it starts slipping. The big issue with this engine tuning wise is there is no upgrade path for the injectors so fueling limits it to around 400bhp.
    Still a very practical and capable car, and so much easier to use the power and torque than in the Golf as the quattro system does a great job of providing traction.
    The fuel cap solenoid was the first job I tackled on my car. I just replaced it as the old one was open circuit. Only about £35 for all the parts from the dealer including a new plastic liner for the fuel filler.
    Karl.
     
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  13. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    Nice car. Are you trying to flash it with mpps?
     
  14. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Hi Karl - thanks buddy

    Why do you run wmi?
    From the information I have the early CAPA engines actually have a better fuel pump and can do 90 to 100mg worth of fuel without rail pressure drop.
    I have a few idea's but i want to experience / test this rail pressure drop for myself to see where the actual limit is.

    Its a great car even in stock forum.

    Once I do a BDM style read on the ecu I'll take a look at the file, my dyno guy is away for a few weeks so I have time.

    Yes using mpps - i have other tools but none of them work. I've done plenty of edc17cp14 so I'm assuming its tprot. Anyways I will boot mode it soon enough.
     
  15. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    I run WMI only when at a track or 1/4 mile it definately helps by lowering intake temps and adds a bit more fuel. Rick did a great job of mapping the car to get the most out of the standard turbo without being smokey. To get a bit more power a bit more fuel is added by running the WMI.
    The research I have done seems to point to the later cars with the CP4 pumps having more pressure but less flow, so ultimately will be more limited in tuning I would of thought. The CAPA engine in mine has the CP1H pump that is rated at 85mg where as I think the CP4 pumps in the CCWA are higher pressure but lower flow somthing like 65mg.
    Mine runs 1800 bar pressure with no issues with the current mapping, be interesting to see if it holds at that when it's running more fuel for the hybrid.
    It seems most of the 400bhp cars on the A5-qp RS5 TDi facebook page are CAPA engined cars.
    If you haven't seen it already there is a build thread for my car linked below with some of the mods I have made.
     
    bobby singh and V6 Quatt like this.
  16. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    Any news on remap? Which year is this car? You can read ecu till 2011y cars. :)
     
  17. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Its a 2009 model - You can't read all cars upto 2011 - sometimes they've had a oem flash update which prevent obd read regardless of the year. You can read/write via obd on such vehcles onces the ecu has been unlocked.
     
  18. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    I managed to read the ECU on my car with an MPPS lead that I use to map EDC15 diesels but it won't write the ECU. As you say whether you can read the ECU is dependent on when the car was made and whether it has had any updates.
    The EC17 with it's 1024 bit RSA encryption is in a different league to an EDC15 so I leave the mapping to Rick.
     
  19. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    I did mines with fgtech, read/write, no problem.
     
  20. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Carried out some more work on the car this weekend.
    Removed the ecu and using a heat gun, blade and patience removed the bonded cover:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Got a successful read of all memories in case I ever need to clone the ecu :)

    Next job service (air, fuel and pollen)

    [​IMG]

    Detailed

    Yesterday got my cousin from (teamspb) to do the detail on the car :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This week I'll prepare a stage 1 tune (with egr off) and see what it does - I've unlocked the ECU for obd tuning so will make revision uploading easier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  21. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    Jeez how many miles has that air filter done ???
    Has your car got the Audi Drive Select on it ?
    You can enable it with Vag-Com it has a default of auto I believe if you don't have the function enabled. It makes the car feel more sporty by altering the throttle map and tightening up the steering.
    Karl.
     
  22. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Not sure mate but it has full Audi history.
    I've heard of ADS but Auto function sounds perfect?
    When I drive a bit sporty I have noticed the steering wheel tightens up.
     
    TahirS likes this.
  23. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Hi Karl I enabled ADS and within my hidden menu I don't actually have the "Car" menu as described here:
    http://www.audienthusiasts.com/Project_ADS.html

    I have MMI, Tuner, Combi, Telephone, Vehicle ( which has no sub items), Navigation etc

    Any suggestions?
     
  24. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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  25. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Hi Karl - thanks for the link that worked perfectly :)

    Cheers
     
  26. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    Glad that works for you, the car is a lot more responsive in dynamic mode, throttle map makes the accelerator more like an on / off switch in mine.

    Karl.
     
  27. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Had some time over the last week or so.

    Removed the air box butterfly

    [​IMG]

    Also, started work on the tune.
    For stage 1 I want to keep stock hardware including DPF and just remove EGR from software.

    Even with the correct damos file this sofware it's not a easy task over 20k labels.
    I was being limited to 620nm torq limit - but finding the limiter for this has resolved this issue.
    Anyways after many revisions (all over boot mode) the MAF (hfm) is maxed out and remains flat lined after 3.5k :)
    EGR is off via software

    Nice punch in the midrange with healthy IQ of 86mg

    It’s nice to see the fuel pump is keeping and there is no pressure drop so far.

    [​IMG]

    For stage 2 (DPF off) I will replace the MAP sensor with a 4 bar unit and change the tune for a maf delete (this will not be an easy job and will require many hours in calibrating fuel)

    I will book a dyno slot this week and see what it does.

    DPF delete will be with me soon :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cheers
    Bobby
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
    A4AllroadS and Chop. like this.
  28. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    Nice work. What advantages do you get for removing butterfly valve in air filter?
     
  29. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    The actuator that controls the butterfly could break or jam so removed it to ensure i have flow to keep intake and egt's down.
     
  30. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    Right, so if it's working there is no point to remove it? Also did you weld yourself the downpipe? I had maf delete on my 2.0tdi pd just because I need to fit sport filter, as oem didn't fit with gtb2056vk. What advantage you will get on 3.0 without maf?
     
  31. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    I would remove the flap it has only benefits

    I wish I could weld like that mate :)
    It's a contact I use for this kind of work.

    As for why go MAFless - like i mentioned the maf is currently maxed out @ 900kg/h after 3.5k which means I can no longer use it to as a input for knowing how much air is coming in (and therefore use it for IQ)
    When I go mafless the smokelim will require many hours of calibration as I need to guess the air going into the engine. This guess will be in a map based on boost and rpm.

    Also the physical restriction of the maf will be removed and straight pipe can be fitted between the air box and turbo.

    Cheers
     
  32. Dieselburner

    Dieselburner New Member

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    Ok, so my next mode will be flap delete :) I was thinking about downpipe like that, but I don't want to swap dpf on every 2 years to pass MOT. I have DPF housing but it's empty inside, probably with downpipe like yours exhaust should sound nicer. Looking forward to your mods.
     
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  34. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Made it to the dyno today

    [​IMG]

    Stock car with stock map:

    [​IMG]

    Stage 1 tune with stock hardware (inc dpf):
    313hp 650nm

    [​IMG]

    Pleased with the result

    Just a shame I went on such a hot day. My air charge temp were showing 80deg on the dyno runs. I need to confirm at what temp does the torque limiter kick in.
    More digging into the map tomorrow.

    Next fit the 3" dpf delete pipe, remove the egr and maybe the maf.

    Cheers
    Bobby
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
    V6 Quatt, Chop., TahirS and 1 other person like this.
  35. NotNormal

    NotNormal Active Member Team Nano Grey VCDS Map User Audi S3 quattro S tronic

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    My a6 3.0 tdi engine runs as hot as lava !!
    The crappy intercoolers said don't help on mine.

    Good figures - interesting to see what's next
     
  36. adamss24

    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Strong results from just a remap and dpf delete, keep up the good work Bobby !
     
  37. Matt Benns

    Matt Benns Benzy

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    Great results from a map without having to get rid of the dpf!
     
  38. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    I'm not convinced the stock intercooler on the CCWA is poor - in fact for a stock item it is performing really well. Just in the dyno cell yesterday's temp was very warm. - I'll be going back soon enough.

    Thanks Chris - stage 1 was with dpf - I'll post the dyno graph's on tdiclub once I've got the results for the dpf off

    Thanks Matt
     
  39. V6 Quatt

    V6 Quatt Well-Known Member

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    Excellent work inspiring me now...
     
  40. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    On graph is AT , air temperature and IT , intake temperature ?
     
  41. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Thanks

    Atmospheric temp and Inside Temp (cell)
    Air temp is a input for torqlim, but looking at the map I would run on the smokelim first. Smokelim works with airmass. So for equal boost you get less airmass as the air gets hotter.
     
  42. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User TDi Audi A4 quattro

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    Removed the DPF pipe yesterday and fitted the 3" delete pipe.

    Impressive fit.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Performs much better during low and mid-range rpm now.

    Still need to perform some logging to see if the N75 requires a tweak as the dpf restriction has been removed.
    There is zero smoke which is great.

    After logging I will establish if there is any scope for more fuel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
    Chop. and Gazwould like this.
  43. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Now I know thanks .

    When I had a car dyno'd AT was 27 and IT was 29 .

    Well warm .
     

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