BMW 120d or A3 TDI SE/SPORT 2.0 (140) (10k budget)

[Duncan]

am looking at getting an A3 2.0tdi se or sport but thought for a second maybe its worth looking into the BMW 120d

downsides of the bmw are higher insurance costs, worse mileage, higher tax
plus sides: faster, better service

can anyone add to this?

or is the a3 the obvious choice

 

[sprout99]

A3 seems to be better built, just as fast TBH. Has bigger boot and about same mpg

BMW handles better but rear wheel drive is a bit lively in wet.

We have both cars. So depends what you want

BMW doesn't have timing belt but has it's own quirks

 

[kaz219]

+ Side - A3's better looking....

 

[10blazin]

the bmw 120 is one of the ugliest cars Ive seen i wouldn't by one just on that alone no matter how quick handling etc

 

[Duncan]

this is true it certainly isnt a stunner!

the only other car i was considering was the mk4 anniversary golf but do really want a DSG gear box

the A3 2.0tdi 140 it is i think!

have found an S-line spec sport DSG 2.0 tdi for 10800 wtih 38k on the clock - sound like a good deal?

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

I had to make a similar choice...went for the A3 because it does look better and after 20+ BMWs (mostly older models) I fancied a change and it's much nicer inside etc

Very occasionally I doubt my decision because of infrequent worries about DSG (is it going to break? is it going to engage drive exactly when i want or is it going to wait a minute before shooting me nearly into an accident) and the fact that I find FWD a bit awkward to drive...

If I had to choose between a new 123d and an equivalent A3 I may just choose the bimmer - despite looking like a shoe they do go really well and the steering is uncorrupted by drive Plus, add an LSD to the BM and I predict it will be huge fun, wet or dry...

Having said all that, I'm very satisfied with the A3. It goes well, looks great to me and the first owner ticked almost all the boxes. Not had a problem with the car or dealer yet, so I'll be keeping the car for the foreseeable future

 

[kaz219]

IMHO, if i wanted a car for fun - yes Id have RWD or 4WD over 2WD but then it wouldnt be diesel either ??

For what the A3, its a top car!

Duncan - i think you can do better for the money. You should be able to get a S-Line for around £10,000. Some are even cheaper. Someone on teh forus sold theres for 9 and that had done 67k.

S-Line in the pre-prefacelift (2004) have the Sline steering, gear knob, rs6 wheels, black headling, really hard suspension which is lower, s-line sills and leather as standard! Well worth the extra bit imo.

If you post a postcode near to you (dont post yours), I can take a quick gander on the trader for you!

 

[sprout99]

the bmw 120 is one of the ugliest cars Ive seen i wouldn't by one just on that alone no matter how quick handling etc

i won't argue with you - we already had an A3 so i went for the 120d M Sport. Similar spec to S Line.

M Sport looks better type of shoe than std versions

 

[buckas]

agree, love the m-sport 1 series myself

 

[Duncan]

I had to make a similar choice...went for the A3 because it does look better and after 20+ BMWs (mostly older models) I fancied a change and it's much nicer inside etc

Very occasionally I doubt my decision because of infrequent worries about DSG (is it going to break? is it going to engage drive exactly when i want or is it going to wait a minute before shooting me nearly into an accident) and the fact that I find FWD a bit awkward to drive...

If I had to choose between a new 123d and an equivalent A3 I may just choose the bimmer - despite looking like a shoe they do go really well and the steering is uncorrupted by drive Plus, add an LSD to the BM and I predict it will be huge fun, wet or dry...

Having said all that, I'm very satisfied with the A3. It goes well, looks great to me and the first owner ticked almost all the boxes. Not had a problem with the car or dealer yet, so I'll be keeping the car for the foreseeable future

sent you a PM kaz

 

[kaz219]

Pm'd back fella

 

[sprout99]

agree, love the m-sport 1 series myself

i had the 8L A3 before - fancied a change. BMW is ok but doubt i'd buy another. They are difficult to work on. Parts are in same league as Audi for prices but they don't believe in rationalising parts across the range.

A brake upgrade was not easy to source parts -

 

[PNH80]

For me the big difference between Audi's and BMW's is that when you're driving a BMW you know it's been designed from the ground up to be that specific car. Not in the case of the A3, derived from a golf and tarted up (lets be honest).
Thats why in more cases than not, BMW's are often better cars (even if they are worse looking).

Having said that i would always go for an A3 over a 1 series. I don't like anything about the 1 series and i actually think the A3 is the best balanced all rounder in the Audi range.

Have you looked at the price of 3 series diesels? No idea how they compare to the A3 price wise but i'd look into a 3 series rather than the 120d.

 

[sprout99]

i need a hatch to get stuff in boot like bikes and my son's minimoto quad.

i believe the E90 3 series and 1 series share a lot of chassis and running gear

 

[PaulAr]

Even though not comparative in in the respective line up, it would appear that the A3 is the darling of the AUDI range and similarly the the 3 series is of the BMW range.
A lot of guys moving from hot A3/S3 seem to favour the 3 series when moving across to BMW ownership, rather than the 1 series.
The 3 series and its derivatives, is the only BMW I could actually see myself in.

Anyway, why is taking a very good car (Golf) and then tarting it up a bad thing?

Its not like there is any `**** polishing` going on.

I personally dont think the A3 alleged shortfalls in driving dynamics (compared to the 1 series) is anything to do with platform sharing.

IMO, its about execution, providing you have decent basic ingredients that is, and whether you want to make a solid safe car for the average driver or a `ground up` driver focused car for the more capable and enthusiastic consumer.

Look at the Corrado, it was parts bin mash up and is widely considered a fantastic drive (it is BTW, I had 2), and then AUDI released the Mk1 TT, which was also a parts bin mash up, and that was widely considered style over substance and not a great drive.
And what about the new Scirroco? Yet another parts bin special that (according to the motoring press) actualy drives better than the cars its is related to!

So, my point being that just because a car shares some or many components, doesnt mean it a bad car. Something which PORSCHE fans will be hoping for......


my 2p

cheers
Paul

 

[Amchlolor]

Why do people think the A3 is better built than the 1-series?
I can understand why people might prefer the looks of the A3, outside and in.
Beauty is the eye of the beholder, after all.
But I semi-regularly drive a 123D and a 118i from the fleet and I simply cannot see anything to suggest the A3 is better built, inside or out.

 

[redbutcher]

Borrowed a mates 120d m-sport before I ordered my A3. Loved the drive of the BM and was almost set to order one - then I tried to get the kids in the back and things changed.

I really liked the driving experience in the BM, but needed more room in the rear, so A3 it was.

 

[HotboxDeluxe]

I think the build quality of the A3 is ok, but not exceptional. The material the door cards are made out of is crap, for example. But BMWs aren't as rock-solid as they used to be, either

It's all a matter of personal taste...seriously considering getting the wife a 320d tho

 

[sprout99]

i've had a few niggles with mine. the worst being a ****** annoying and expensive EGR problem. Since then it's been ok. I find the interior of the A3 more pleasant but the seats with the air filled bolsters and adjustable seat bases in the 1er are cool.

Recently i had wheels re-furbed and have done away with run flats and added 130i front brakes.

I spend a lot of time in my car so want something that keeps me smiling.
200bhp and 400nm+ through back wheels is certainly that.

Makes your driving style change. RWD is surprisingly grippy. It's roundabouts in wet that can be fun.

i do miss my old car. But changed before i had to spend cash on it.

Maybe in time my opinions will change but i had a bad start to my first BMW ownership.

 

[PNH80]

Even though not comparative in in the respective line up, it would appear that the A3 is the darling of the AUDI range and similarly the the 3 series is of the BMW range.
A lot of guys moving from hot A3/S3 seem to favour the 3 series when moving across to BMW ownership, rather than the 1 series.
The 3 series and its derivatives, is the only BMW I could actually see myself in.

Anyway, why is taking a very good car (Golf) and then tarting it up a bad thing?

Its not like there is any `**** polishing` going on.

I personally dont think the A3 alleged shortfalls in driving dynamics (compared to the 1 series) is anything to do with platform sharing.

IMO, its about execution, providing you have decent basic ingredients that is, and whether you want to make a solid safe car for the average driver or a `ground up` driver focused car for the more capable and enthusiastic consumer.

Look at the Corrado, it was parts bin mash up and is widely considered a fantastic drive (it is BTW, I had 2), and then AUDI released the Mk1 TT, which was also a parts bin mash up, and that was widely considered style over substance and not a great drive.
And what about the new Scirroco? Yet another parts bin special that (according to the motoring press) actualy drives better than the cars its is related to!

So, my point being that just because a car shares some or many components, doesnt mean it a bad car. Something which PORSCHE fans will be hoping for......


my 2p

cheers
Paul

Mate, thats all very good but no one actually said basing the A3 or any other car on the Golf was a bad thing... After all, do i not own an Audi A3? The basic product of the Golf is the industry standard by which all other measure up to so no.. Course it's not a bad thing.

My point is... When you drive a BMW 1 series (which i wouldn't) you know the money has gone into developing that car and nothing else. That's my only complaint about Audi ownership, i love the car but it will never feel 'special' due to sharing it's platform with so many other cheaper cars. I knew this before buying it obviously and it doesn't spoil the car, it suits me perfectly and there's no equal i'd swap it for. Just the way VAG operates.

On that Porsche subject... Porsche operated like a hedge fund, stitched up the stock market and managed to buy the controlling number of shares as a cheaper way to develop bio fuel and other technologies which VAG were already set up in. I very much doubt Porsche will lessen it's brand by giving away an equivalent product for less with an Audi badge on it. Most of the technology sharing will be going to make Porsches better but no Audi switches etc will show up on a Porsche.

It shocked me to see an RNS-E straight from an A3 in the new Gallardo. Thats a bit insulting when you're paying £160K for a car.

 

[SMc]

the bmw 120 is one of the ugliest cars Ive seen i wouldn't by one just on that alone no matter how quick handling etc

What he said...

 

[sprout99]

one point to consider

are you guy's being impartial?
Yes the 1 er is not pretty but have you all driven one?

 

[APL TDi]

My arguement is based on being driven in my mates 123d.

It is ****** fast, I mean seriously quick. But my 4yr old A3 feels much more solid.

My mate has a white 123d m sport with a few options on it and it cost something like £28K which is just rediculos imo. The 1 series will obviously be a beter drivers car and is obviously quicker than a 140 tdi A3, but it is ugly and compromised. If you are happy to compromise having a rwd chassis and having no back seats and one fo the uglyest cars on the road then go for it, because imo the 1 series beats the A3 in every other department.

But if you want a perfectly capable hatch, with a decent abount of space and some style and covers most bases perfectly well, you would be ahrd pressed to beat an A3.

 

[Duncan]

after the reading the commments and doing some research am definitely going to stick with the A3 2.0 tdi DSG

but am wondering - in terms of reliablity and resale am i better off going for

A. S-line with plenty of extras with 58k miles on the clock
or
B. an SE or sport with less extras but with 20k -29k on the clock???

is mileage that big a deal with a 2005 diesel and also when does the cam belt have to be changed? am guessing thats a pretty costly service, might be a bonus having that already done

 

[PaulAr]

one point to consider

are you guy's being impartial?
Yes the 1 er is not pretty but have you all driven one?

Maybe true.

Whoopie Goldberg may be an epic shag, but somethings are just too ugly to love. However good.

 

[PNH80]

after the reading the commments and doing some research am definitely going to stick with the A3 2.0 tdi DSG

but am wondering - in terms of reliablity and resale am i better off going for

A. S-line with plenty of extras with 58k miles on the clock
or
B. an SE or sport with less extras but with 20k -29k on the clock???

is mileage that big a deal with a 2005 diesel and also when does the cam belt have to be changed? am guessing thats a pretty costly service, might be a bonus having that already done

I don't think anyone can answer that one for you... You've got to go and look around the cars and drive them if possible, see how they feel. S-Lines are better looking cars and probably hold value a little better as they're more desireable BUT if you do a lot of mileage then go for the lower mileage car.

Good luck with whatever you choose anyway!

 

[PaulAr]

Mate, thats all very good but no one actually said basing the A3 or any other car on the Golf was a bad thing... After all, do i not own an Audi A3? The basic product of the Golf is the industry standard by which all other measure up to so no.. Course it's not a bad thing.

My point is... When you drive a BMW 1 series (which i wouldn't) you know the money has gone into developing that car and nothing else. That's my only complaint about Audi ownership, i love the car but it will never feel 'special' due to sharing it's platform with so many other cheaper cars. I knew this before buying it obviously and it doesn't spoil the car, it suits me perfectly and there's no equal i'd swap it for. Just the way VAG operates.

On that Porsche subject... Porsche operated like a hedge fund, stitched up the stock market and managed to buy the controlling number of shares as a cheaper way to develop bio fuel and other technologies which VAG were already set up in. I very much doubt Porsche will lessen it's brand by giving away an equivalent product for less with an Audi badge on it. Most of the technology sharing will be going to make Porsches better but no Audi switches etc will show up on a Porsche.

It shocked me to see an RNS-E straight from an A3 in the new Gallardo. Thats a bit insulting when you're paying £160K for a car.

Ok, fair comment, agree in the most part and because Ive never owned a BMW (driven a few inc. E46 M3) I cant comment on whether BMWs are `special` or not to own.

As a point of reference though, I drove the M3 and was really impressed, but when I got back in my S3 I didnt feel like I had taken a step back in any way at all. Not even a little bit.

My point about PORSCHE was that it was inconceivable a few years back that SEAT would platform share with AUDI.
Or AUDI with Lambo.

So it is conceivable that PORSCHE could be platform sharing with the VAG stable.

Wonder how PORSCHE would react to that?

Cheers
Paul

 

[PNH80]

PaulAr.... I agree with what you say about the M3 but BMW's are quite basic inside. The general feel and quality of the A3/S3 interior is as good as anything. I borrowed my uncles 997 Carrera 4S and the interior didn't 'feel' any better made or a nicer place to be than my A3.

The difference with the Porsche argument is that VAG bought Lambo, Skoda, Audi etc so they call the shots with regards to platform sharing (making everything as cost efficient as possible) wheras Porsche now control VAG so they decide what Porsche give and take from the deal, not the other way around. Should be interesting though. Maybe we'll get a PROPER Audi sports coupe for once! Not the slightly feminine TT or flabby A5/S5.

 

[PaulAr]

PaulAr.... I agree with what you say about the M3 but BMW's are quite basic inside. The general feel and quality of the A3/S3 interior is as good as anything. I borrowed my uncles 997 Carrera 4S and the interior didn't 'feel' any better made or a nicer place to be than my A3.

The difference with the Porsche argument is that VAG bought Lambo, Skoda, Audi etc so they call the shots with regards to platform sharing (making everything as cost efficient as possible) wheras Porsche now control VAG so they decide what Porsche give and take from the deal, not the other way around. Should be interesting though. Maybe we'll get a PROPER Audi sports coupe for once! Not the slightly feminine TT or flabby A5/S5.

The PORSHE / VAG partnersip is certainly and interesting one.

Cant help but think that once the `bean counters` get involved there will be more than a little bit of parts bin sharing.
Maybe no bad thing though.

cheers
Paul

 

[Markm49]

Maybe true.

Whoopie Goldberg may be an epic shag, but somethings are just too ugly to love. However good.

 

[SteveTDCi]

I've supposedly got a 118d m sport on demo, I'll let you know what i think later

 

[markwiggy]

Test drove a 120d a couple of years ago and was very impressed,great engine, quick and handled very well but was a bit small for my needs and is not the best looking car in the world. So depends what you want really, if it wasn't for the need to carry mountain bikes I would probably have bought the BMW.

Mark

 

[NHN]

lol, I saw the thread title & thought I'd pop into ladbrokes to see the odds on a Bowfer post or 10, lol (see the funny side, not the friction, cause its an almost certainty)

 

[SteveTDCi]

well i have the 118d and apart from the looks I would pick the BM over the A3, steering is better seats are better, its got a very good driving position and the engine is much smoother, the whole car feels more refined. The clutch is heavy though.

 

[V6Pete]

A good mate of mine had a 120d M Sport for a company car for 2 years. He hated it. The ride was terrible - far too hard and driving over a few speedbumps too and from work used to knock out the tracking every couple of months which meant he got through a lot of tyres. It is also very cramped inside. He couldn't wait to get rid - he's got a new 320d M Sport coupe now which he's a lot happier with, but admittedly it's about £10K more!

The BM does have a few more bhp than the TDI 140, but with a remap there's not such a big difference, if you're that way inclined.

I'm a big fan of current BMW's, but would definitely take an A3 over the 1 series.

 

[sprout99]

well i have the 118d and apart from the looks I would pick the BM over the A3, steering is better seats are better, its got a very good driving position and the engine is much smoother, the whole car feels more refined. The clutch is heavy though.

i hate sitting in traffic ....hard work.

 

[SteveTDCi]

I did miss the DSG, the standard 118d v my remapped 140ps is way out of its league, space wise I find it ok, more than the A3 in the front and the suspension although hard is better than the S Line, i'm off for a long run tomorrow so i'll see how i feel this time tomorrow !

 

[sprout99]

I did miss the DSG, the standard 118d v my remapped 140ps is way out of its league, space wise I find it ok, more than the A3 in the front and the suspension although hard is better than the S Line, i'm off for a long run tomorrow so i'll see how i feel this time tomorrow !

i find the S Line very harsh ride. I have done away with run flats on the BMW and carry a spare now. Ride is good in the M Sport. re-mapped 120d is very quick about same as 140pd with remap but has more balls in higher revs. PD is very aggressive at lower revs.

 

[Amchlolor]

lol, I saw the thread title & thought I'd pop into ladbrokes to see the odds on a Bowfer post or 10, lol (see the funny side, not the friction, cause its an almost certainty)

On this occasion, I'm perfectly happy to agree with people who slag off the 1-series.
I wouldn't have one either.
In fact, if my choice of car were a 1-series or an A3, I'd take the bus.

What confuses/annoys me is people saying the A3 is better built than the 1-series.
I've owned an A3, I probably drive 1-series more regularly than most in this forum too (we have a 118D and 123D in the fleet).
The A3 is not better built, end of.
I'm not saying the 1-series is either, if you'll note.
I would say build quality is equal.
1-series is deinitely quieter (engine/wind/road noise) though.
Which gives an air of being more 'solid' than the A3.